Islam, Arabs, invented Palestinians

still doesn't predate the Bible. because eventhough the Bible was written in Roman times it reaches back to the beginning of time and explains the world, mankind, etc...up to the times of Jesus, on thru to the present day (Now), and clear thru to the last days of this age(Future).

And the Bible says there were Giants in the land in those days.

in the Bible, Og the King of Bashan had a bed that was 13 to 15 feet long; and Goliath was 6 cubits tall (9 feet). The second aberration was that they had six fingers and six toes...

Giants come from Demons breeding with human females...hence alien abductions. never really hear about the guy being abducted do you? No, mostly females come forth. think about it.

What do you call this.? since you believe in Archeologly so tough.

Links please. not opinions.

 

Where do you come up with stuff?...LOL

I can tell you've been indoctrinated with some off the wall logic about the Bible. It's obvious

Fact is, ALL science and the understanding of the Universe comes from the Bible.

I'm still hung up on you claiming there was no Temple to begin with, now you're backpeddling. it's fun to watch indeed....LOL

 

There were no demons breeding with human females and no giants..

The Natufian culture is well studied and were living around Galilee, Jericho and the Dead Sea 11,000 years ago.. The Canaanites may have evolved from the Natufians.

The Islamic arrival in Jerusalem was nonviolent and respectful of the Jewish tradition, so that when the caliph saw the Temple Mount, he was astounded to find that the Christians have been treating it as a garbage dump, and the Caliph, Umar, ordered the Temple Mount cleaned up, and he invited Jews back into the city who had been exiled by the Christians.

You really have no education.

 

the Ashkenazi Jews in the land today did indeed create their history. no argument there.

but the Ju's of the Bible, their history is real as real can get.

 

yep, it's official, you've been indoctrinated by nutjobs who hate God and denounce the Bible.

I get it.

 

Loving God is not dependent on ignorance of scripture or history..

 

Bloody hell!

Giants? Were there Beanstalks as well?

The Palestinian Jews didn't do any fighting before the white European pretendy ones arrived. They should have just been left to get on with it without inserting Bolshevik mindsets into the mix and left to live amicably together. Britain has a lot to answer for.

 

When you denounce the people and events that took place in it, it sure does scream of ignorance and hatred.

 

catch up the truth is out there.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4yayLdiZT8"]Chuck Missler - Ancient Alien Nephilim Giants Mutants Genetic Engineering and Hybrids - YouTube[/ame]

 

If I want to do fantasy, I watch Harry Potter films.

 

Hahahaha.. I should have known it was Chuck Missler.

 

MYTH ALERT!!! MYTH ALERT!!! MYTH ALERT!!!

Oh dear. I thought you claimed an in-depth knowledge of the Middle East. Even as a light-weight on the matter, I don't understand in that case why you posted that stale old Myth. I invite you to provide some evidence for your above claim. You really are thin on support for your dismissal of others. Margot was perfectly correct. The Palestinians are Jews who converted to Christianity, and Jews and Christians who later converted to Islam and became "Arab-ised".

But feel free to provide justification for your views so that we can have a decent debate and not claim higher-ground just on "I say so".

 

Of course apologists, appeasers, anti-Israel forum members, and many Muslims would disparage Jewish journalists with facts linked to historians.

Daniel Greenfield: Not just an invented people - a really crude, clumsy invention
http://israelinsider.net/forum/topi...t-just-an-invented-people-a-really-crude-clum

Palestinian identity is just so much gibberish. The official definition of that identity encompasses only those parts of the Palestine Mandate which Israel holds today.

The people who live on the parts of the Palestine Mandate that were turned into the Kingdom of Jordan in 1921 are not Palestinians. There is no call to incorporate them into a Palestinian state. The people who lived in the parts of Israel that were captured by Jordan and Egypt in 1948 weren't Palestinians, and there was no call to turn the land that today comprises the so-called "Occupied Territories" into a state. But in 1967 when Israel liberated those areas-- only then did they magically turn into Palestinians.

The End of Palestine
http://danilette.over-blog.com/arti...ne-daniel-greenfield-en-anglais-84803930.html

Caroline Glick: Yes, Palestinians Are an Invented People
http://hnn.us/articles/caroline-glick-yes-palestinians-are-invented-people

 

Of course apologists, appeasers, anti-Israel forum memebers, and many Muslims would disparage Jewish journalists with facts linked to historians.

Daniel Greenfield: Not just an invented people - a really crude, clumsy invention
http://israelinsider.net/forum/topi...t-just-an-invented-people-a-really-crude-clum

The End of Palestine
http://danilette.over-blog.com/arti...ne-daniel-greenfield-en-anglais-84803930.html

Caroline Glick: Yes, Palestinians Are an Invented People
http://hnn.us/articles/caroline-glick-yes-palestinians-are-invented-people

 

All the people who lived in the province of Syria Palestine since 500 BC are identified as Palestinians.

You might read Herodotus or Pliny, or even Chaucer or Shakespeare.

 

Yes the locale has been called Palestine by the Brits and others during and after WWII. However, who were the Palestinians per se? And who should rightly own the lands? Conquerors? Those who did something with it? As far as I am aware even those who bleiev they are Palestinians have been used as scapegoats and manipulated for the UN and other desires. A contact who reads my weblog and the political forum suggested I could post the following.

WHO ARE THE PALESTINIANS? WHAT & WHERE IS PALESTINE?

There is a preliminary historical fact that must be established now. There has never, I repeat NEVER, been a civilization or a nation referred to as "Palestine" and the very notion of a "Palestinian" Arab NATION having ancient attachments to the Holy Land going back to time immemorial is one of the biggest hoaxes ever perpetrated upon the world!

There is, nor has there EVER been a distinct Palestinian culture or language. Further, there has never been a Palestinian State governed by ARAB Palestinians in history, nor was there ever a Palestinian national movement until after the 1967 Six-Day War, when Israel regained control over Judea and Samaria (the so-called "West Bank").

It was then, and only then, that a Palestinian national movement was born with one primary goal: the creation of an Arab Palestinian State with which to replace Israel.

It's that simple!

Israel became a nation in 1312 BCE, two thousand years BEFORE the rise of Islam!

Seven hundred and twenty-six years later in 586 BCE, these first ancient Jews were overrun and its First Jewish Temple (on today's Temple Mount!) was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, king of ancient Babylon. Many of the Jews were killed or expelled; however many were allowed to remain. These Jews along with their progeny and other Jews, who would resettle over the next 500 years, rebuilt the Nation of Israel. Thus the claim that Jews suddenly appeared fifty-three years ago right after the Holocaust and drove out the "ancient Arab Palestinians" is preposterous!

Then in 70 CE (nearly 2000 years ago), it was the Roman Empire's turn to march through ancient Israel and destroy the SECOND Jewish Temple, slaughtering or driving out much of its Jewish population. Many Jews left on their own because conditions for life were made unbearable in many respects, yet thousands and thousands stayed and rebelled on for centuries in order to once again rebuild a Jewish Nation in this Holy Land.

Over these next 2,000 years various Peoples, Religions and Empires have marched through Jerusalem, Israel's ancient capital. None bothered, nor were in the least interested in, building a Nation of their own. Included in these "invaders" were the Arabs. Thus in the year 636CE Arab marauders came to the land and uprooted even more of its Jews. However, they too did NOT form an Arab nation... and certainly NOT a "Palestinian" nation. Moreover, remember this one fact... it was not the Jews who "usurped" (a favorite word from the Arab propagandists) the land from the Arabs. If anything, it was the Arabs in 636 CE who overran and stole it from the Jews!

In Conclusion: No nation, other than the ancient nations of Israel and later the Reconstituted Nation of Israel in 1948, has ever ruled as a sovereign national entity on this land.

THE QUASI PALESTINIANS WHENCE DID THEY ARRIVE?

In numerous books and pamphlets and lectures throughout the world, and especially on these boards, detractors of Israel and their colleagues have reiterated the theme of the "physical expulsion of the Arabs from Palestine" parroting the central axiom of Arab propaganda against Israel. How much truth is in this allegation?

Unbiased examination of the period in question will demonstrate that it was as a result of Jewish settlement and development in Palestine, that the Arab sector expanded and flourished as never before, and precisely in those areas, both urban and rural, of dense Jewish life and activities. Examination of sources will show that even before the beginning of Zionist settlement in the 1880s, when the predominant demographic trend was large-scale emigration from the land rather than immigration toward it - even then, the influx of both Arab and non-Arab elements, for various reasons, was prevalent. For example, many of the Egyptians who invaded Palestine in 1831 with Mohammed Ali's conquering army remained in the country even after the Turkish re-conquest in 1840. Several thousand Egyptians who were brought in along with the conquerors to settle vacant areas of the land joined the considerable number of deserters who had previously fled Egypt in order to escape compulsory army service.

In 183I, wrote the French scholar Mohammed Sabry, "over six thousand [fellahin = peasants] crossed the Egyptian border, and Abdullah [governor of Acre], in his great generosity, refused to return them." Please read :- (L'Empire Egyptien sous Mohamed Ali et la question d'Orient). After the conquest as well, Mohammed Ali continued to bring settlers from Egypt to Palestine. Some of them settled in the Hula Valley, among them Bedouin from the tribes of Ghawarna and Arb-el-Zweid. The al-Hanadi tribe settled in the Jordan Valley. The Hadera region was settled by the Arb Damaira Tribe, and Wadi Hawarat (Emek-Hefer) by the Arb Ofi tribe. Most of the city of Jaffa, according to an 1878 British Palestine Exploration Society map of the area, was made up of Egyptian neighborhoods.

The Egyptians built eight villages on the coastal plain, not far from the spot where Tel-Aviv was established (see the entry on "Palestine" in the 1911 edition of the "Encyc. Britannica"). Notable in the Tel Aviv area, were the villages of Feja, Jeljilya, Sumail, Sheikh-Mounis, Salame, and Umlabis (later Petah-Tikvah). Egyptians also inhabited the villages of Zarnuga, Kubeibeh, and Qatra (later Gedera) in the south. The Historian DeHaas reports that "Ibrahim Pasha, who left Palestine in 1941, had left behind him permanent Egyptian colonies at Beisan, Nablus, Irbid, Acre, and Jaffa, where some five hundred Egyptian soldiers' families established a new quarter" (History of Palestine, p. 419). That is, at least two thousand Egyptian immigrants settled in one place alone (Jaffa) in the nineteenth century, and with the passage of time their children and grandchildren were assimilated into that demographic conglomeration today known as "the Palestinians".

In 1844 the American expedition under William Francis Lynch found some eight thousand Turks in Jaffa among a population of thirteen thousand. Lynch also found that the Moslem population of Safed was largely descended from Algerian tribes that had fought against the French and fled to Damascus and from there to Safed, and from Kurds who had settled in the city during an earlier period (Narrative of the US Expedition to the River Jordan and the Dead Sea). The Algerians (popularly termed "Mograbim") established four villages in the Lower Galilee (Kafar Sabat, Ma'ader, Ulam, and Sha'ara), and in the Upper Galilee the villages of Dalton, Alma, and Dishon.

In 1878 Circassian refugees from the Caucasus who had fled the Russian Christian rule arrived in Palestine. Some settled in eastern Transjordan and some in the western part, where they established the villages of Kafar Kama, Sarona, and Reihaniya. During the period of Turkish rule, Moslems from Bosnia also found refuge in Palestine and settled near Caesarea.

Lloyd George (in The Truth about the Peace Treaties, Vol. II, p. 1127) quotes a statement by Lord Milner to the effect that <"colonies of Turkoman, Circassians, Kurds, and other savage races have been planted about to hold the country in subjection."> Unquote&#8230; The English historian James Parkes, in his book Whose Land?, enumerates over twenty villages in the Galilee alone whose inhabitants came from distant lands during the last hundred years&#8230;He describes the phenomenon in these terms: "Israelite, Syrian, Greek, Arab, Latin, Egyptian, and Balkan peoples have all contributed to the present population ... In some cases, villages are populated wholly by settlers from other portions of the Turkish Empire within the nineteenth century&#8230; There are villages of Bosnians, Druze, Circassians, and Egyptians." The Encyclopedia. Britannica (Eleventh edition, 191 1) also speaks of the mosaic of peoples and tribes that comprised the "Land of Israel" of that day, before they came to be called "Palestinians": Turks, Jews, "very large contingents from the Mediterranean countries, especially Armenia, Greece, and Italy," Persians, Afghans, Motawila, Kurds, Germans, Bosnians, Circassians, Sudanese, Algerians, and Samaritans.

Arab immigrants, mostly from Egypt, settled next to the Jewish villages in the south which were established in the early 1880s - Rishon-Lezion, Nes-Ziona, Rehovot, Ekron and Gedera - and found employment there in the citrus groves and vineyards. The Belgian Company that laid the Jaffa-Jerusalem railway (opened in 1892) brought in hundreds of Egyptian laborers. After the British conquest many Syrian and Lebanese were employed in such projects as the laying of the Haifa-Kuneitra railway (which also employed thousands of Egyptians), building army camps, paving roads, and building the Haifa port. Many of these imported laborers did not return to their countries of origin when the work was finished, but remained in the country.

So when I mentioned in the past... that the MAJORITY of Muslims in Palestine are not even Arab (NOW... they have forced this designation upon themselves to be amongst peers... to say they belong to the ARAB WORLD... and thus be taken into consideration...)

Unfortunately this strategy has born fruit in an American World weak on historical knowledge. They are now recognized as a People...

WOW... the biggest hoax was not made by P. T. Barnum but by the so-called Palestinian of today.

 

That's a lot of meat OJ. I am going to choose to answer you in bite-sized pieces .... OK? It will also help to keep issues neat and separate, and thereby facilitate structured debate.

(.... to be continued)

 

MYTH ALERT!!! MYTH ALERT!!! MYTH ALERT!!!

The Myth is old and stale.

Because by the same token it would try to assert that there is no Namibian state because in the past there were no Namibians; there was never a Namibian civilisation; there have been no Namibian kings; or as you write (paraphrased) "there has never in history been a Namibian state governed by Namibians".

The reasoning behind this negation of a Namibian people and a Namibian state is pure twaddle.

And the same would apply to the Tanzanian people and the Tanzanian state. And to Zimbabwe. And to Pakistan. And to Australia. And to the USA. And to South Africa. And to Russia (as it is today). And to France. And to Spain. And to ... and ...

So please give us a break. That reasoning is JUST SO lame.
-----------------

With regard to your question "And who should rightly own the lands? Conquerors? Those who did something with it?"

You leave out the obvious answer (as we knew you would): Those who should rightly own the lands are the people who have been the indigenous occupiers of the land for millennia; whose 1000 generations+ have been born on this territory; who have tended the goats in the land's hills and cultivated olive and almond groves on the slopes for thousands of years; whose bones have been buried beneath this soil for millennia.

Fair enough? So now your task is to show that the Palestinians are not the descendants of the 'indigenous occupiers of the land'. I am sure that we will get to that.

(... to be continued)

 

<<<Mod Edit: Personal Attack Removed >>> They had Palestinian currency ad Palestinian stamps and Palestinian newpapers at the turn of the century..

The Palestinian people are descended from Arabs, Canaanites, Jews who stayed and converted to Christianity and later Islam.. Some of the people are descended from Crusaders.. and only Zionists tell the lie that there were no Palestinians until the 6 day war.

Palestinians have spoken Arabic for 2000 years....... just like English is spoken in England, Canada, the US and the Bahamas.

Jerusalem was a tiny hilltop mudbrick town in bandit territory.. It was poor and ignorant compared to the Decapolis ... and Israel was ruled by Egypt, Assyria, Greeks, Romans. Turks for most of its history.

 

So what? The Iroquois were in the Ohio valley thousands of years before the Europeans arrived. Are you telling us by the same token that that nation has the rights to reclaim Cleveland as the capital of their Iroquois state? Or are you telling us that the Mapuche have the right to exclusive sovereignty over the entire central valley and the south of Chile? Or that the San people (Bushmen) can take the Drakensberg back and surrounding fertile lands back from the black Nguni races because they were there long before the Bantu migrated south? Or that .... or .... If so, please explain your implementation strategy. Same as what Israel did?

Irrelevant. No serious debater would claim zero Jewish link to the southern Levant. The point is that "some" link, especially one distant in time, does not even remotely equal "entitlement to exclusive sovereignty" 2 millenia later.

Agreed. Very good. In fact almost precisely what happened to the bulk of the Palestinians in what is now Israel, in 1948-1950. I am glad that you agree that this type of ethnic cleansing is unacceptable.

I repeat – so what? Are you blaming the indigenous Palestinian people for having been ruled and subjugated by a bunch of foreign colonialists for various millennia – now using their past oppression against them? Ouch!!

Now tell me, between the 2nd and the 20th Centuries were the Jews ever a majority in what is now Israel? Were they ever, in fact, even the most populous minority? If the answers are "No", then we have the amazing situation that Jews were at best a secondary minority in the 'Holy Land' for almost 2 millennia, and yet on this basis you claim for them a right of EXCLUSIVE sovereignty nearly 2000 years later? Where else on the planet has that been declared to be universally accepted. It would cause utter chaos ... as is plain for all to see.

(…. To be continued)

 

The History of "PALESTINE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHgVMC38YLg&feature=youtu.be

The Arabs invented a special national entity in the 1960s (rather than a geographic delineation) called the Palestinians, specifically for political gain. They brand Israelis as invaders and claim the geographic area called Palestine belongs exclusively to the Arabs.

The word Palestine is not even Arabic. It is a word coined by the Romans around 135 CE from the name of a seagoing Aegean people who settled on the coast of Canaan in antiquity the Philistines. The name was chosen to replace Judea, as a sign that Jewish sovereignty had been eradicated following the Jewish Revolts against Rome.

The Palestinians are Part of the Old Arab Order
http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=55204

~Prof. Hillel Frisch, Senior Research Associate at the Begin-Sadat (BESA) Center for Strategic Studies - Arutz-7, January 8th, 2012

The Palestinian Arabs are part of the old Arab order because time and time again they have aligned themselves with the worst dictators of the Arab world. Their own governments in the West Bank and Gaza are cut from the same cloth as the regimes of the old Arab order; they are one-party police-states where the opposition and the media are suppressed. They demand the right to self-determination for themselves but deny it to others.

They are also part of the old Arab order of terrorism.

Many have wondered since the beginning of the Arab upheavals why the Palestinian Arabs have not taken part in the hoped-for 'Arab Spring.' The answer is that with the positions they hold today, the Palestinian Arabs are an integral part of the old Arab order, and therefore are unable to participate in a democratic, tolerant Arab renaissance.

The Palestinian Arabs are part of the old Arab order because time and time again they have extolled the Arab leaders who make up the old Arab order and aligned themselves with the worst dictators of the Arab world.

With overwhelming Palestinian public support, PLO leader Yasser Arafat, risked international isolation and condemnation for himself, his people and his movement in order to support Saddam Hussein’s occupation of Kuwait. Saddam was the most brutal leader of the old Arab order. (After their liberation from Saddam, the Kuwaitis expelled over 100,000 Palestinian Arabs in retaliation for eager Palestinian cooperation in suppressing Kuwaiti citizens.)

This is the same Arafat, the same PLO, and the same 'Palestinian People' who today rail against Israeli 'occupation.'

Take for example, Azmi Bishara, the former Israeli-Palestinian Member of Knesset who called himself as a democratic liberal. He defied Israeli law forbidding the visiting of an enemy state in order to eulogize Hafiz al-Assad, the strongman of Syria, after his death in 2001. Assad was one of the most murderous of Arab leaders.

His son Bashar is presently suppressing Syrian citizens with great brutality. (Bishara later fled Israel and resigned from the Knesset after being questioned by police on suspicion of aiding and passing military information to Hezbollah during wartime).

Another Palestinian-Israeli Arab Member of Knesset, Ahmad Tibi, led an entourage of Israeli Palestinians to pay homage to Muammar Qaddafi, the fallen Libyan dictator, just before the outbreak of the revolution that led to Qaddafi’s downfall. In neither case were these Palestinians forced to act as they did. They did it out of love – for the 'old' Arab dictators and their regimes.

Palestinian Arabs are also part of the 'old Arab order' for supporting Arab nationalism, which in retrospect, was clearly an ideological smokescreen for Sunni Arab domination over the minorities in the Middle East. As mentioned above, the Shiites of Iraq drove the Palestinians out of their midst for collaborating with the Ba‘thi regime in suppressing the Shiite majority and the Kurdish minority in Iraq – in the name of Arab nationalism.

More recently, no Palestinian Authortiy leader, faction, or ‘human-rights’ organization has had anything critical to say about the brutal suppression of Shiites in Bahrain, just as they were silent in years past about the wrongs and atrocities against minorities in the Arab-speaking world.

The Palestinian Arabs are part of the old Arab order because they demand the right to self-determination for themselves but deny it to others. The Palestinians supported Saddam’s regime against Kurdish self-determination; they support the Moroccan occupation and colonization of Western Sahara (which denies the indigenous peoples a right to a state of their own); and they support the Algerian regime in suppressing Berber/Amazight language and culture.

Both Mahmoud Abbas’ Palestinian Authority and the Hamas government in Gaza are cut from the same cloth as the regimes of the old Arab order. They are one-party police-states whose main line of business is suppressing the opposition, incarcerating political prisoners, and denying media freedoms to the opposition. The rump parliaments in both the West Bank and Gaza have been moribund since the outbreak of Palestinian civil war in 2006.

The PLO itself is the ultimate example of the old Arab order. The dozen or more factions that constitute the PLO are over forty years old; yet in none of them has leadership change taken place except through the natural or unnatural death of the leader. The same can be said of the relatively younger Islamist Jihad al-Islami and Hamas movements. There is no internal democracy in these groups.

Remember: More than anything, the Arab upheavals of the past year are about instituting a change of leadership in the Arab world. The Palestinians are having none of that.

The Palestinian Arabs are also part of the old Arab order of terrorism. The Palestinians, who introduced wide-spread and indiscriminate terrorism to the world, served as an inspiration to Hizbullah and al-Qaeda terrorism, presumably the movements hurt most by the would-be Arab spring. The Palestinians continue to take part in this old Arab terrorist agenda through indiscriminate missile attacks and conventional acts of terrorism.

Does all this mean that the Palestinian Arabs are doomed, and barred from the promise of an Arab spring?

Not necessarily. Palestinian Arabs could begin a promising journey towards a democratic renaissance by acknowledging the rights they demand from Israel and the world to others. They could, for example, support the right to self-determination of the Kurdish, the Berber and the Jewish peoples, including recognition of Israel as a Jewish state. Palestinian Arabs could and should take a stand against the oppression of Egypt’s Copts.

They could and should renounce Arab national movements that betray these principles. They could and should become a voice for civil rights if and when the new Islamist regimes in the Arab world begin to deny these rights to their minorities.

Without question, the journey to a Palestinian democratic spring is long and arduous.

Fortunately, the Palestinians have an example nearby of a democratic and prosperous state worthy of emulation – Israel.

BESA Center Perspectives Paper No. 158, January 5, 2012

Mandate for Palestine - Eli E. Hertz
http://www.mythsandfacts.org/Conflict/mandate_for_palestine/MandateN2 - 10-29-07-English.pdf

“When it is asked what is meant by the development of the Jewish National Home in Palestine, it may be answered that it is not the imposition of a Jewish nationality upon the inhabitants of Palestine as a whole, but the further development of the existing Jewish community, with the assistance of Jews in other parts of the world, in order that it may become a centre in which the Jewish people as a whole may take, on grounds of religion and race, an interest and a pride. But in order that this community should have the best prospect of free development and provide a full opportunity for the Jewish people to display its capacities, it is essential that it should know that it is in Palestine as of right and not on sufferance. That is the reason why it is necessary that the existence of a Jewish National Home in Palestine should be internationally guaranteed and that it should be formally recognized to rest upon ancient historic connection.” Winston Churchill, British Secretary of State for the Colonies, June 1922

Myths and Facts
http://www.mythsandfacts.com/

http://www.mythsandfacts.com/article_view.asp?articleID=162&order_id=1

What unites Palestinians has been their opposition to Jewish nationalism and the desire to stamp it out, not aspirations for their own state. Local patriotic feelings are generated only when a non-Islamic entity takes charge – such as Israel did after the 1967 Six-Day War. It dissipates under Arab rule, no matter how distant or despotic.

 

Hi OJ,
I know that you are relatively new here, so permit me to point out that posting third party text without providing your own analysis and your opinion is a no-no.

Oh, by the way, I am still awaiting a response from you to my post #146. I know that you could not possibly believe that your post #147 was a response, but if for some unknown reason you do, then my opinion is that you just blew your credibility as a debater to be taken seriously.

I know that I am a light-weight, but the above is honestly bad form and makes it seem like you are wriggling on a string trying to avoid direct rebuttal.

 

Oh, and by the way, you haven't challenged my post #144 either. Or Margot's.

OJ, you can't just toss out these ripostes and then, when they are challenged, pretend that nothing has happened. Even a light-weight like me can see that it means you are wriggling on the end of a string.

[Whispers to Margot]"And if he does that 3 or 4 times ... oh dear ... his credibility and status as a heavy weight regarding the Middle East are down the big tube".

We are happy to wait.

But, to continue, interesting Churchill post you made. Did you read it? Really, I mean?
Since you offered it, care to provide your view of what he meant? (of course while still responding to the above )

 

My own analysis? Have you read what I have posted... and these are links where some of the informations came from. So how about I add I believe all thwa sstate dis true. And I have no interest in debating with Margot, who is either a phony or hides who she or he really is. I still say related to CAIR. Frankly, I am not interested in debating with you either, who tries to be informative or satirical and neither one works.

 

Now coming back to basics...

It is either you've read Herodotus, Pliny, Chaucer and Shakespeare yourself and you know exactly where Palestine is mentioned... and also able to define page and line where the word is mentioned in these books or not.

Your last attempt re 'The itinerary of Benjamin of Tudela' was quite disappointing, Benjamin of Tudela is part of the reading school curricular in Israel. My inner feeling tell me now, it is obvious... you have not read any of the above since you cannot quote any phrase that would back your contention.

Name dropping is not something that anyone is proud of... If you cannot illustrate and substantiate the above authors' works, please refrain from mentioning them.