US invasion of China.

Yea, nice fantasy there.

Maybe in a few centuries when they discover a way to avoid atmospheric blooming.

 

While the DF-21D may well be a fantasy at present, prediction of technology capabilities 30 years from now if rash.

The real vision of sugar plum fairy's come from folks thinking an invasion of China is realistic.

Whether or not the DF-21D becomes reality, nuclear cruise missiles are already a reality.

What defense do you suggest against those when spinning yarns at the office?

 

The cruise missiles can't reach the U.S....they have very limited range. If someone used a nuclear cruise missile against U.S. forces their country would quickly become molten lava.

 

I've been following the Chinese military expansion, and they have made huge strides in the last decade or so, and will continue to do so..............but i do have to agree with our American friends here................we havnt actually seen in any form the proof of the Chinese carrier killer missile......and until i hear or see reports, or film of a successful test of this missile, then one can presume it is not a viable weapon (at present).

I found it interesting that as members have pointed out here, that some of the Russian nukes paraded at their Red square parade, were nothing more than mockups....it makes you wonder what other presumed highly publisised weapons of other nations, dont actually exist, or work in the real world!

 

No big surprise russia used mockups for parades. A sensible course of action. As for proof with foriegn military tech. This forum is the last place you should look. Highly doubtfull a member of the bejing military or kgb will log on and give out tasty web urls.

 

The conversation, and the thread, is about an carrier group and whatever else would be needed trying to invade China.

China would not try and nuke the US. They are not crazy.

 

Nuclear Cruise Missiles have been a reality for decades. No secret there. The Tomahawk is a Nuclear Cruise Missile, and has been in service for almost 30 years now.

Heck, the first Nuclear Cruise Missile was the SM-62 SNARK, which was developed in 1958. Over 50 years ago.

Your point here is? What does a Nuclear Cruise Missile have to do with the claimed operation of the DF-21D? Other then one has been reality for over half a century, and the other has never been built?

 

The Soviet Union did not only use mock-ups. They used mock-ups of systems that never existed.

It is one thing to decide to use a mock-up of a weapon or system because you do not want to either endanger others, or to break security.

It is totally different when you use a mock-up, and claim that it is a working system. When no such system ever existed, either at the time or in the future.

And in case you did not know, the KGB ceased to exist in 1991. That organization was replaced with the modern Federal Security Service of the Russian Federation (FSB).

 

I just used the DF-21D as one example of technology.

The overall point was that China has the capacity to defend themselves from an Navel invasion.

 

With what? They have a very third rate Navy and an Air Force consisting mostly of outdated aircraft.

 

And a few million soldiers.

 

Well then it wouldn't be a "naval" conflict. The U.S. could likely land troops in China....the question is whether it could sustain that force and go on to "occupy" China.

 

Perhaps a couple of soldiers if they were real sneaky about it !

How a carrier group going to defend itself from nuclear cruise missiles ?

 

Aunt Fong nods, agreeing that it wouldn't be worth it...

... dey ain't got enough women to go around as it is.
... if the Chinese men can't elope with white women from the West,
... like the romance of Paris and Helen of Troy in Homer's Iliad,
... they will have no choice but to become lamas,
... reciting the sutras instead of quoting Confucius,
... striking the wooden fish instead of fishing in the Yangzi.
... Then centuries later there will be more lamaseries
... in all other Chinese provinces than Tibet.
... The Lama will be granted the Mandate of Heaven
... to chant and give orders to all Chinese lamas
... year after year, reincarnation after reincarnation,
... from the Forbidden Palace in Beijing.

 

Why would anyone want to occupy China? If we went to war with China, there would be no victor. But it would thin the world's population. That's the only good thing that might come of something that insane.

 

With ICBM's. I don't know how reliable these numbers are, but China has 20 nuclear missiles that could hit the U.S., while the U.S. has over a thousand that could hit China. Please correct me if I'm wrong on the numbers. If a nuclear war is limited to just China and the U.S., the U.S. wins. This is why it would not be a good idea for China to use nuclear weapons on a carrier group even if they were faced with the threat of invasion.

 

China has way more than that. In any case .. of course you would expect China to use what ever means necessary to defend against invasion.

They would probably use conventional first. And this would likely do the trick in any case.

 

I don't think we would really call that a win.....not with 10-20 of the largest American cities poofed, and a nuclear winter settling in.

 

I will think you'll find that China is rapidly replacing its old weapons, and by 2020, certainly in the case of its Navy it will be very modern indeed.

At present, the Chinese are in serial production of its 'Aegis' TYPE 052C Type Destroyers, and 054A Frigates, so as to quickly replace older classes of warship.
They are (have been) building large amphibious ships the Type 071, and have also started building thier own littoral type combat ship the Type 056.

The question mark i have against the Chinese, is in their training, and they dont have the experience of a recent past conflict to go on.

Anyway the Chinese goal is long term!

 

I generally agree, that's not really the point of the thread though.

 

Don't let silly catch words like "Aegis" and "Littoral Combat" make you think these ships are anywhere comparable to their American/Western counterparts.

 

I'am not....all i'am saying is that they are making fast progress, to try and catch up with Western technology.

Think ahead to say 20 years time!

You think 10-15 years or so ago, China was having to buy Russian warships, weapons systems and engines, to update their fleet.
They are now designing their own warships with Chinese made weapons and now their own engines (which were previously their achilles heel).

It will be interesting to see what the rumored 052D destroyer will be like, when it is expected around 2015.

Mind you the Americans will have the 'Zumwalt' then!............and the 'Arleigh Burkes' keep getting better, with each batch.

I believe the American defence cuts will be announced soon, though i think the US Navy, will fare considerably better than the other forces. I think the US Army will take the brunt of the cuts, but overall the US capability to project its power abroad will not be hampered.

 

Don't you mean steal western technology?

 

Are you absolutely and totally clueless about what you say over and over again?

Here, let me make it loud and bold here.

Neither China, nor any other nation will launch a "nuclear cruise missile"!

There, is that obvious enough for you? Do I need to repeat it yet again?

The minute any nation releases a nuclear warhead of any kind, that nation is no longer at war. They are the originators of a thermonuclear war. And it is pretty much assured that that nation will then be utterly destroyed.

What do you not get about this simple concept?

The US has about a 100 to 1 ratio of nuclear weapons when compared to China. If China was stupid enough to launch one at the fleet, it will be destroyed. Period. And most other nations will probably join in the destruction, for having the idiocy of unleashing the Nuclear Genie after being bottled up for so long.

I suggest you go and do some research on MAD. And I wish you would stop throwing such a stupid comment into the debate over and over again.

 

Actually, they have 32 that can strike the majority of the US. And another 24 that might reach the West Coast, depending on where they are launched from (Chinese Missile Subs are well known to almost never leave port).

That's it. Feel free to look them up.



Meanwhile, the US has 550 ICBMs, 1,152 SLBM, and 500 bombs that can be dropped from aircraft.

Total number of nukes that can be dropped on China? 2,200. Compared to the 32-56 that China can launch against the US, that is a game looser if they were to try a first strike.

And remember, that is just the US. If China were to launch a nuke first, I expect Russia to respond in kind against China. They have another 2,723nuclear warheads.