Why are blatantly racist threads allowed?

If we made a rule that said "no racism", it would stifle too many topics. We allow all kinds of rude disrespectful views to be presented here. Sometimes, they are over the top and we get rid of it. Most of the time, the opinion itself is not what gets a thread deleted. The way it is presented kills it. We've been accused of racism for allowing someone to say Michelle has a big butt. This same person thought it was fine to call Sarah Palin a "Christian whore". Other people's opinions are bound to offend you. Pretending they don't exist will not make them go away.

 

I'm not following you. We DO address flamebait threads and posts. I don't know what you mean "strawman posts."

 

The forum does try to promote freedom of speech. This means that it's own rules on hatespeech and flamebaiting are rarely enforced.

 

Ain't that the TRUTH!

 

Such posts are clearly piggish male-chauvininist ill-manners and should be removed.

 

But, still dumm is what gets you the most votes at an election, so racism and nazism will NEVER go away.

 

Whilst I absolutely agree that bad manners can easily kill any discussion, isn't it better to know the opponent for what they are, than second guessing what they don't say? This makes it easy to track the cycles in the changes of their political views or where they are undecided too.

 

If they offend me, fine, I can look after myself, but I think that sort of thing ought to be leaned on. There is too much of it.

 

It would have to be glaringly racially hateful, IMO, for the Mods to start tampering with hard line censorship of threads/posts, then limiting members to confront and challenge while also offering understandings of racism.

Knowledge has increased significantly over the years regarding how to deal with racism. Some very learned people have even broached the concept that white guilt is an impediment to change.

Curtailing dialog is the wrong direction.

 

sending you both a PM . I will not post a disagreement with 2 of the most respected Moderators on PF on an open forum .

 

I think it is site policy to allow it or (combined with for-mentioned) the mods and owner have lost all control and simply given up.

I have read excuses of freedom of speech but other forums don't allow it. Perhaps why this forum is popular. that "we" can say anything we like.

Although how long this lasts for, until it does change remains to be seen.

 

I work as mod on another forum and we get thousands of posts every single day. The forum is owned by Europeans who have great disdain for racism. Any racist post is immediately deleted and the poster is banned. This is how we solve the problem. Easily. Not the slightest problem whatsoever. [And if you don't mind me saying so, I have been given much praise for my work as mod - naturally, I have gotten much hate from racists as well] If we can handle the problem there, it can be done just as easily here. It is all a matter of choice.

Hate filled, racist posts do not promote free speech. It promotes more hate and has no place in a civilized society that proclaims itself to be "Christian" and Bible adhering. Right wingers on this forum hate President Obama and say he is anti-Christian and anti-Bible. Yet, look at all the hate they post --- so who is being anti-Christian and anti-Bible???

Free speech is just that - not racialist hate.

 

Interesting video on Jeff Berry, by a Danish (who have a great disdain for racism) journalist.

http://www.american-pictures.com/video/kkk.on.the.road/kkk-road-us.htm

He brings Jeff Berry around to a variety of different african americans, and then advises them that Jeff Berry at the time was the head of the KKK, and dialogs ensue (with breaks in between of the journalist one on one with Berry)

Is Berry a racist piece of work? Obviously. Did dialog take place in a most remarkable setting(s)? Obviously.

What wasn't happening, was giving in to fear to the discussion.

The journalist seemed pretty (*)(*)(*)(*) scared at times. Berry seemed pretty (*)(*)(*)(*) scared at times. A whole lot of uncomfortableness all around, by everyone.

Personally, I am not so afraid of anything a racist wants to say, and the ability to read/hear them affords everyone the opportunity to address them and provide the truth of racism, in all it's ugliness.

 

Agreed. I've always felt that shutting problems away only makes things worse, especially in a topic like racism.

 

Dialog that is out in the open where people can be held accountable for their words & deeds is quite different than a forum with its anonymity and lack of accountability.

Let me illustrate:

Years ago when I first started posting online in a website forum some clown named Julio wrote in Spanish a highly racist letter about White people. Mind you I am a Hispanic. One thing that stood out to me was the fact that "Julio" failed to learned his grammar in school. Therefore, I wrote a sarcastic reply to wit,

"My Dear Julio,

I honestly don't mind you writing racist comments about White people. But when you do, would you please use proper grammar. As a fellow Hispanic, I am deeply embarrassed by your terrible usage and would appreciate it if you corrected yourself."


Another Hispanic chimed in and wrote that he, too was embarrassed by Julio's writing - not by his racist anti White comments, but by the terrible grammar.

Had Julio gone to school he would know that in Spanish we use the noun first, adjective second. In English, it is just the opposite. Julio used adjective first.

Well, here's the bottom line: "Julio" was NOT a Hispanic or he would have known grammatical usage. Therefore, what he was really doing was trying to stir the pot of hatred by making these viciously hate filled diatribes about White people.


I invited "Julio" to write back but he failed to answer my invitation. Obviously it is because he got caught in his stupidity and racism.


It's the same here: Anonymous posters are not accountable for their misdeeds - you do not know who is making these racist comments. For all you know it could be a "Julio" who is trying to stir up trouble and attempt to shut down the forum from complaints to the FCC.

Allowing repeated racist comments can lead to the shutting down of this forum. What will you do if that happens?

 

The anonymity is the strength of the forum, built on as much free speech principle as will allow, and the last medium left for the expressing of it.

Think of the Juan Williams et al, who get PC stifled or destroyed in other mediums.

I have stated this many times, however it bears repeating.

Sensitivity has trumped truth as the moral standard of society. I don't relish the thought of it happening on the last place it isn't completely dominating, - the internet, inclusive of forums with an occasional Julio.

 

As a European I strongly disagree. Racist posts should only be banned where they are part of a clear organized campaign by groups of racists to infiltrate the forum to build a racist political group. This is what neo-Nazi parties do and I think that PF sees them off.

I think it is good to see those on here who are openly racist. I do think the Mods should give us some leeway when we debate with hatespeech, but otherwise I think racists should stay. I have, for example learned there is a virulent strain of anti-semitic Jew hatred in a section of leftists who post about Israel. I think it is only a small section and that liberals on the whole are not anti-Jewish and that opposition to abuses carried out by the Israeli state is not the same as anti-semitism in any way. But the evidence of Jewbaiting by some leftists is clear to see on this forum and I have learned something from it.

 

Your understanding is extremely deficient for many liberals oppose Zionism while it is conservatives who hate Jews. In fact it is no secret that the majority of Jews in the USA identify themselves as liberals. Had you been an American you would have known that.

While it is good to see a European follow American politics or news, you need to step back and pause before you reach judgment on our brand of politics. Clearly you do not understand it. Hopefully, however, you have soon have a greater understanding of it.

As for the Julios and other hatemongers of this society, it will be recalled from our study of European history that Nazis, like commies, and like Bonapartists before them spread hate, rumors, and lies through anonymity and agent provocateurs. A hater would scream out hate and lies during a rally and then disappear into the crowd in order to foment hysteria. This is how the early Bonapartists gained in popularity and strength. Europeans know that fully well. And this is how the right wing haters and other political agitators are doing today with anonymous Julios and their types.

 

I knew that. I said nothing different. I said all apples are fruits not all fruits are apples. Go and re-read before posting patronizing drivel.

I find the word Zionist imprecise in it's current usage (yours for example) so I don't use it. Like most US liberals I support the right of the State of Israel to exist. Technically that is a Zionist position but this is not how the word is always used so I don't use the word. Your use, implying right wing Israeli nationalists, is an incorrect but common usage. Paradoxically the leftist Jewbaiters I have come across equate all Zionists with Nazis, that is all people who support a two state solution behind 1967 borders (most US liberals) being equated by some leftists with Nazis. You don't have to look too far to find them.

And where did I say that conservatives did not hate Jews? Where dd I say Jews were not liberals? As to the Jewbaiters, the ones I have seen are not American. Well not the ones I would identify with the Left anyway.

This is a global forum. It is important to be informed from many perspectives. Moreover it is important to read the posts you then go on to sneer at before inserting foot into mouth.

 

Foot in mouth?

Perhaps if you clarified and spread your disdainful comments to all sides people would not reach the conclusion they do. If you chose to attack one side while disregarding the faults of the others, one has no choice but to reach such a conclusion.

Furthermore, this thread is about racist threads and posts on this forum which is what you addressed. You did not address European Jew baiting on your post. Again, if you fail to clarify your rantings one can only reach a conclusion based on your posting. If your English is limited then say so. This why people like me can ask for clarification and you will not be stimulated to get so childishly defensive.

 

This is not an American forum. It is a global forum. You assuming I was talking only about the US just shows you don't get this. Nonetheless I am fully aware of the way most US liberals and most US Jews tend to think. Nothing I posted suggests otherwise. You might as well patronize me for not knowing who Martin Luther King was or something as I didn't mention everything to do with all US racism in my thread!
It was your interpretation that was quite deficient. I'm not obliged to describe my complete views from every angle in every post. I post widely here and have posted on Israel many times. I was talking about left wing racists, and how I discovered them through PFs racism allowed policy. The fact that I did not post that there are right wing racists means only that I, like most people alive, already knew about this totally obvious phenomenon and did not come across it here. Because I did not state the bleeding obvious you had to come in with your know it all sneering and put me right. Your smug patronizing bollocks misfired. As I tried to explain (it is true that it takes some insight into methods of logical deduction to get it), I said all apples were fruits. I did not say all fruits were apples.

 

I have not come across your inane comments before and had no other way to interpret its misdirected mysticism. Therefore, you should have foreseen that and clarified it beforehand. Hopefully, you will use your poison pen more evenly in the future so that everyone can fully comprehend your delusional ravings.

 

Attacking a racist pedantically for poor grammar is not likely to discredit it him as much as you think. This self congratulatory story is more likely to win the racist sympathy. Especially as you don't "use proper grammar". You should "use grammar properly".

 

Are you just being abusive or can you identify the delusion and the manner of raving? Even if you havent read my posts before, there is no reason why I should have to write my personal manifesto down each time I address Your Grace.

Your posts have a delicious up their own arse style about them which I enjoy immensely. Please post some more priggish explanations of your world. They are very entertaining.

 

Your snobbery makes you look foolish as even LibraryOnLine uses the same term I used:


http://www.libraryonline.com/default.asp?pID=49

Elements of Proper Grammar

"The terms we use in grammar help to explain the relationship and the function of all the words in a sentence. Click on the element of grammar in the list below for the basic rules that apply to each of them. Proper grammar is key to the success of your composition. ''