Why do Zionist apologists demand special debating privileges?

Check this link and read!

http://palestine-studies.org/enakba/exodus/Erskine Childers, Walid Khalidi, Jon Kimche, et al.pdf

 

With reference to the Opening Post, I rest my case.. HBendor has just provided classic proof of the Zionist deflective and denial attitude towards facts. No debate. No reasoning. No analysis. No refutation. No rebuttal. Nothing. Just a random reference that we are all supposed to access and read. And in a month or two's time he will return to claim that he debunked the claim that the Arab leadership never exhorted the Palestinian people to flee.

Thanks HBendor.

But to show that I have respect for someone who actually goes so far as to provide a reference, I will examine your offer soonn

.... (to be continued) ....

 

... (continued) .... regarding HBendor's link that we are meant to read. Presumably he offers it to provide evidence for what he posts below:

OK, HBendor, so I read it. And??? What on earth was your point of posting it? I am shocked!!

HBendor, your link was to the infamous "Spectator Correspondence" in which Shmuel Katz was PROVED to be a liar!!!! His claim that the Arab leadership exhorted the Palestinians to flee is utterly destroyed by the research evidence provided in your link!! You have just blown the Number 1 Zionist MYTH clear our of the water along with Katz's toenails.

Folks, please bookmark HBendor's reference. Here are some classic extracts from it:

And HBendor’s reference also provides precisely the contrary evidence, namely that the Arab leaders exhorted their followers NOT TO FLEE, as follow:

And finally here is Khalidi’s unrefuted conclusion after numerous weeks of open debate:

So, HBendor, you have just provided excellent well referenced evidence that Shmuel Katz (with or without clipped toenails) was a liar when he claimed that the Arab leaders exhorted the Arab Palestinians to flee. We thank you for that excellent clarification and your annihilation of the number 1 Zionist Myth.

 

Here is a link ...... perhaps an explanation.... for your detestable cowardly behavior!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yt3d3Fmouh4&feature=player_embedded#!

Perhaps its shame of there actions they wish privileges they don't deserve or warrant!

Highlander

 

you know the really annoying thing about all of these Hasbara liars!

Next week these same paid programmed robots will write the same old lies all over again hoping that no one read the truth here you provided and they might catch a few new registered members to fill their heads with their lies.

The other really annoying thing for us is this is usually the time that we get the threads on Taqqiya being posted to divert attention away from the REAL LIARS! Watch wait and see the likes of Trinity or the rest start that old nonsense yet again.

60+ years and still they manage to convince stupid people of their lies because they OWN the media. Because they are EXPERTS in LYING and PROPAGANDA.

Because they can convince dumb Americans to vote for psychopathic Christian lunatics as presidents who in turn LIE to their voters! Why they can easily convince the millions of dumb Americans that to be safe in their houses they NEED to SUPPORT the TERRORIST LYING occupiers of Palestine!

That's whats sad and that's the biggest problem of all, and we have millions of the dumbest people on earth getting their pens ready to vote in 11 days!
no doubt thinking that 1.9 billion Muslims are the problem not knowing who the real masters of deceit and terror really are even though they are warned of them in their bible!

 

Lol, is it the best you can do? Well, obviously it is. You have a lengthy article by a Khalid whining about [surprise surprise] the evils of zionism. You have several Khalids here, including yourself, Khalil, Abu and a few other usefu idiots, whining about the same. Khalil here came up with arab quotes for the time when the war did not even start thinking he would fool us. He did not. Guess what, none of them come even remotely close to refute the undeniable and irrefutable words of arab leaders (including Mahmoud Abbas, no less) confirming the arab government's appeals/orders to the arab population to evacuate.

In his memoirs, Haled al Azm, the Syrian Prime Minister in 1948-49, also admitted the Arab role in persuading the refugees to leave:

“Since 1948 we have been demanding the return of the refugees to their homes. But we ourselves are the ones who encouraged them to leave. Only a few months separated our call to them to leave and our appeal to the United Nations to resolve on their return” (The Memoirs of Haled al Azm, Beirut, 1973, Part 1, pp. 386-387).


Leaders like such as Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri Said, who declared: “We will smash the country with our guns and obliterate every place the Jews seek shelter in. The Arabs should conduct their wives and children to safe areas until the fighting has died down” (Myron Kaufman, The Coming Destruction of Israel, NY: The American Library Inc., 1970, pp. 26-27).


The Secretary of the Arab League Office in London, Edward Atiyah, wrote in his book, The Arabs: “This wholesale exodus was due partly to the belief of the Arabs, encouraged by the boastings of an unrealistic Arabic press and the irresponsible utterances of some of the Arab leaders that it could be only a matter of weeks before the Jews were defeated by the armies of the Arab States and the Palestinian Arabs enabled to re(*)enter and retake possession of their country” (Edward Atiyah, The Arabs, London: Penguin Books, 1955, p. 183).



One refugee quoted in the Jordan newspaper, Ad Difaa (September 6, 1954), said: “The Arab government told us: Get out so that we can get in. So we got out, but they did not get in.”


“The Secretary-General of the Arab League, Azzam Pasha, assured the Arab peoples that the occupation of Palestine and Tel Aviv would be as simple as a military promenade,” said Habib Issa in the New York Lebanese paper, Al Hoda (June 8, 1951). “He pointed out that they were already on the frontiers and that all the millions the Jews had spent on land and economic development would be easy booty, for it would be a simple matter to throw Jews into the Mediterranean... Brotherly advice was given to the Arabs of Palestine to leave their land, homes and property and to stay temporarily in neighboring fraternal states, lest the guns of the invading Arab armies mow them down.”




“The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny but, instead, they abandoned them, forced them to emigrate and to leave their homeland, and threw them into prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live.”
— Palestinian Authority (then) Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen) (Falastin a-Thaura, (March 1976)
http://www.jewishfederations.org/page.aspx?id=121275


Sorry klip, you have to have serious legitimate sources, not a few obscure anti-Israel zealots whining about Israel to make a good debating case. You can't demand special debating privileges just because some people on your side publish some baseless garbage on the internet.

 

Borat you can't be serious... You didn't even attempt to refute any of the evidence we provided, and now you have just repeated yourself with the same quotes.

I'll be leaving a post real soon...

 

Dear Forum Users, here we have a classic vindication of the Opening Post. Borat demands special debating privileges as follows:

# He is allowed to cherry pick and to pretend that the Spectator Correspondence of 1961 consists only of Walid Khalidi’s “whining”. He wants to be allowed to ignore that it also contains evidence provided by Edward Atiya and by Erskine Childers.

# He wants to be granted the right to ignore that there were attempted rebuttals of this evidence by a prominent British Zionist publisher Jon Kimche, by Hedley Cooke, and by David Cairns.

# He wants us to ignore the fact that these attempts failed spectacularly to the extent that later in the piece David Cairns posted an acknowledgement that Khalidi/Childers had destroyed the Myth of the exhortations by the Arab leadership of their followers to flee.

# He offers no evidence whatsoever that Khalidi’s research on the CIA broadcast monitoring records and Childer’s on the BBC monitoring records were flawed, but that we should nonetheless accept his.

# He offers zero rebuttal that in fact the broadcasts reveal that the Arab leadership exhorted their followers to stay put.

Yet he calls those who provide this kind of solid evidence “useful idiots”!!!!

Señor Pot, meet Mr Kettle.

OP thoroughly supported by Borat’s post!!

Let’s look at Borat’s other “evidence” in a continuation ….

…. To be continued ….

 

You provided no evidence. Your quotes dated 1947 before the war even started and before the Arab leaders even began to appeal to arab population to get out of the harms way and let glorious arab armies do their job of exterminating Jews. That showed your true colors right there. You provided some baseless nonsense by known and unknown arab apologists, not real proof. You have not begun to refute the words of multiple prominent arab leaders (who have no love lost for Israel) repeating the same thing over and over again - the arab leaders did appeal and (order) the arab public to evacuate.

Read my previous post (#106) and tell me who of those arab leaders quoted is lying. Or is it all of them? LOL

 

There is no Zionist deflective... Zionists take on and FACE third rate debaters scraping the bottom of any and I mean any CAJON DE BASURA... You rely on an idiot by the name of Erst. SHISTER for your unnecessary documentation... What is the purpose of all this brouhaha... nothing for nothing is going to change... and if ever it is bound to change it would take more than a few disoriented sissies frpm the UK writing all kind of nonsense against the sole democracy in the M.E. As a South African why don't you write something on the country of your origin... You will never do that because what kicks your jollies is to demean Jews and their patrimony... it is not for the good and love for it and to redress its mistakes but rather to trample on it at every opportunity...

 

I actually provided much more than that, which you conveniently ignored.

You brought up Haifa, so I provided evidence that shows that the Arab population of Haifa had actually been leaving due to Haganah, and Irgun attacks, before the Arab countries intervened in the war on May 15. The population of Haifa before the flight throughout December – ending of April was about 70,000. The Economist article omits the fact that already about 25,000 or more left by January, and that the exodus from Haifa continued throughout March.

Furthermore, the Economist article claims the Higher Arab Executive made the call to leave Haifa, which is actually strange considering there are no documents, broadcasts, or anything to substantiate the claim. The Arab National Committee of Haifa throughout the exodus encouraged the Palestinians to stay put, although, from careful examination it doesn’t seem that they had done much to curb the flight. And on 23 April 1948, Haganah Radio gave a full account of the flight of Arabs from Haifa. This broadcast had been replying to accusations made by the Syrian delegate to the United Nations that atrocities were committed against the Arabs. The Haganah broadcast mentioned no Arab order in its account of the Arab flight in Haifa.

At one point you even falsely quoted Benny Morris’s work, disregarding the fact that Morris lists about 369 Palestinian villages depopulated during the war in the opening of his book in which he categorizes them with the reason of departure, and he only attributed 6 of them for leaving on Arab orders, or partially on Arab orders.

Anybody interested in more can read my posts which go more in depth, here, here, or here.

This quote is unsubstantiated and very vague. Unable to get to the original quote in the memoirs, the closest and most reliable place this quote is found is in Mark Tessler’s “A History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict”.

On the very next page, regarding the Israeli claims, and this quote, Tessler writes "Arab sources, a number of neutral observers, and even some Israeli analysts vigorously reject the assertion that appeals by Arab leaders played an important role in the Palestinian exodus. Erskine B. Childers, for example, insists that there is absolutely no truth to the allegation that the Arab radio broadcasts urged Palestinians to depart from their communities of origin. After a careful review of the transcripts prepared by the BBC, he reports that "there was not a single order, or appeal, or suggestion about evacuation from Palestine from any Arab radio station, inside or outside of Palestine, in 1948." This is also the conclusion of Benny Morris, who strongly disputes the allegations advanced by some supporters of Israel. Morris reports that he has been unable to find any evidence of radio or other calls appealing to Palestinian masses to leave, either by the Arab Higher Committee inside Palestine or by the Arab states. He notes that Arab leaders did not always condemn the Palestinian flight ... Simha Flapan, another Israeli analyst, also rejects the contention of an Arab "order from above" leading to the Palestinian exodus. He states that although this "proved to be particularly good propaganda for many years, despite its improbability ... the recent publication of thousands of documents in the state and Zionist archives, as well as Ben Gurion's war diaries, show the there is no evidence to support Israeli claims.” Tessler continues to explain that “Arab and other sources also challenge the validity of many of the reports and statements presented in support of the Israeli case. These sources make the following assertions. First, the few genuine Arab calls for an exodus that can be cited are ad hoc, isolated, and unrepresentative. Moreover, they are usually a response to, rather than a cause of, the panic that took hold in many Palestinian communities. Second, passages quoted by Zionists have often been taken out of context and had their meaning distorted. The Childers study reviews a number of these quotations, including some reproduced above, and presents omitted passages which place major responsibility for the exodus on Zionist action. Third, the Israeli case often utilizes Arab statements made after 1948. This point is emphasized by Sykes, an even-handed observer who in other instances provides information supportive of Israeli claims. Sykes notes that after the war “Arab journalists and broadcasters asserted on several occasions that the exodus was a planned Arab maneuver.” While such assertions were probably a mixture of boasting and rationalization, the important point is that they were made after the refugees had left. Nevertheless, according to Sykes, “they gave Zionist propagandists their cue.” Following this Tessler makes note that “not only is the allegation that Arab leaders called upon the Palestinians to flee untrue, the rejoinder continues, it is in fact the case that many Arab spokesmen actively urged the Palestinians to remain in their communities of origin. Again according to the important study by Childers, “There is repeated monitored record of Arab appeals, even flat orders, to the civilians of Palestine to stay put.” One example give by Childers is an April 1948 broadcast from Damascus, in which Palestinians were told to stay in their homes and continue their jobs. Another is a broadcast three weeks later by the Arab Liberation Radio, which complained that “certain elements and Jewish agents are spreading defeatist news to create chaos and panic among the peaceful population. Some cowards are deserting their houses, villages or cities.” Childers adds that “even Jewish broadcasts [in Hebrew] mentioned such Arab appeals to stay put. Zionist news papers in Palestine reported the same; none so much as hinted [in 1948] at any Arab evacuation orders.” The same conclusion is put forward by Flapan and Morris. Flapan provides additional examples of Arab statements and actions which sought to prevent Palestinian flight. Morris citing IDF intelligence sources, discusses Arab attempts “to halt the flow out of Palestine, specially of army-aged males … [and instances where] National Committees and local irregulars’ commanders tired to fight the exodus, even setting up people’s courts to try offenders and threatening confiscation of the property of departees.” Morris also states that the magnitude of the refuge problem “quickly persuaded the Arab states – primarily Transjordan – that it was best to half the flood tide.”

On what radio station was this broadcasted, where was it said, when was it said, please provide context. Perhaps the prime minister had said this to but one individual? We may never know because the quote has been used completely out of context and we don’t know the original source of the quote – unless we are to assume the first one to report the quote was in 1970.

Nonetheless, you provided no evidence of which cases the Arab women and children were demanded to leave to “safe areas” – which could even mean they aren’t leaving the country. How exactly did this account for 700,000 Palestinians? As Flapan explains “some such statements were actually issued, but they were intended to stop the panic that was causing the masses to abandon their villages.” In many cases the Arab governments closed the borders to refugees on some occasions and sent back men of military age – and sometimes didn’t give residency to the refugees. It would be illogical if the Arab governments demanded the Palestinians leave, only to close their borders to these same people…
The fact is that on a historical level, one simple quote isn’t enough evidence to prove your claim, especially when this claim is without any analysis or context.

 

Why are you repeating yourself? You didn’t even bother to read my posts. Edward Atiyah, who wrote that book even, rejected it. Not only did he write that book several years after the war, but it isn’t a sufficient amount of information to prove the Arabs are responsible.

Edward Atiyah, who wrote that book you quoted, came forward to dismiss this interpretation. In a letter in The Spectator of 23 June, 1961, he wrote that there is "no suggestion whatever in what I wrote that the exodus of the Arab refugees was a result of a policy of evacuating the Arab population. What I said is something quite different from the Zionist allegation that the Arab refugees were ordered or even told by their leaders to evacuate..." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Atiyah)

Again, this is also useless since it is not primary evidence demanding the Palestinians to evacuate. Surely an order of such importance must be traceable somewhere? During 1948, while the actual war was commencing, most the papers in the Arab world were asserting the opposite. This quote is from again, 1954, years after the war had ended, it has no context to substantiate the claim either. During the war, this same paper al-Difa’ reported on 22 April 1948, carried a statement by the Arab Higher Committee which asks the Palestinians to stay and bare their ground, “The duty of the defense of the Holy Land rests upon us, the people of Palestine, first and foremost.”

Please provide primary evidence of an order… The evidence doesn’t support this statement. This is getting quite repetitive, the said statement was from 1951, not 1948 according to the quote. I want the original quote asking the Palestinian Arabs to leave, one that was said during the war. And then proper analysis and evidence to back up that this was the main cause of the exodus. Until you provide us with such, these secondary sourced, out of date, vague, quotes are useless.

It is particularly a useless because we know nothing of this “Habib Issa” and his claim. If he was referring that Azzam Pasha was giving the “brotherly advice to leave” then he is incorrect. In April 1948 both Azzam Pasha, and King Abduallah issued public calls to the Arabs not to leave their homes. This wasn’t their first appeal either, as Benny Morris explains that both Azzam Pasha and Abdullah “issued well-publicized calls to the Palestinian refugees to return to their homes” this was done specifically on “5 May the appeal said ‘every man of strength and wisdom, every young person of power and faith [from Palestine], who has left the country, let him return to the dear spot. No one should remain outside the country exept the right and the old.’” Morris further states that “Abduallah went on to thank ‘those of you who have remained where they are in spite f the tyranny now prevailing’ and went out of his way to cite the Jewish Agency condemnation of massacre at Deir Yassin.” Even the commander of the Arab Liberation Army Fawzi al-Qawukji was given instructions to stop the flight by force.

Again, you are unable to provide any specific date the order was made, who made it, and what the order had said.

First off, Abbas made no appeals for the Arabs to leave, and didn’t provide evidence of any of these alleged demands either. Mahmoud Abbas has also written that “as we commemorate another year of our expulsion — which we call the nakba, or catastrophe” and “Zionist forces expelled Palestinian Arabs to ensure a decisive Jewish majority in the future state of Israel, and Arab armies intervened.”

Also perhaps you should provide the full text of Mahmoud Abbas’s writing from 1976. Again, this doesn’t prove 700,000 Palestinians left their homes.

 

OK, Borat, if I can refute one of your bits of evidence, then it is only fair that you refute the Khalid claim that CIA monitoring of radio broadcasts during 1948 showed no signs of exhorations by Arab leaders that their followers should flee. That's fair in terms of the OP, not so?

Borat, talk about serious sources …. Brace yourself!!

Here is a letter from Edward Atiyah himself to the Spectator. Now you PROVE that that is "baseless garbage" as you put it, instead of just saying so.

Yours faithfully,

Klipkap

Score Khalil/Klipkap 4 - Borat 0 ..... your serve, Borat ... all you need to do is to refute the CIA records and the BBC records as being without Arab leader flight commands; and then refute that both sources show ample broadcasts that these leaders commanded their followers to stay put. Then you need to rpovide verifiable references for your claims, not unsourced quotes which cannot be traced other than in circles.

[EDIT: Apologies, Khalil, for my repetition of the same impeccable evidence ... I had not seen your post].

 

Borat, why do you not know that the bulk of the Ethnic cleansing of Arab settlements took place BEFORE the start of the Arab-Israeli war? Tell me ... when did the Deir Yassim massacre occur? Now tell me, when did the Arab nations declare war? Then read your post above again. Now do the math. Oy Vey!!!

So you make yourself look REALLY petty and uneducated by calling Khalil a “useful idiot” for knowing the real facts.

Sorry, but you cannot claim ignorance as a mitigating facts to grant yourself special privileges in debates.

You WILL get called out, just as I did now on your ignorance of the the order of critical happenings in 1948. FAILED!!!

Khalid was 100% correct. Borat 0%

 

Coming from someone who just told us to read a link that utterly destroyed the Number 1 Zionist Myth .... that is really rich. Talk about scraping the barrel .... Oy Vey!!!; all you did was to provide a reference in which a prominent Jewish publicist in the UK was utterly destroyed in his attempted defence of Zionist Ethnic Cleansing. My sides still ache from the laughter at your incredible faux pas.

I did not know that your learned Argentinian/Mexican Spanish. In Spain, including your ancestral town of Jaca, it is most commonly called a "Basurero" or less often a "Cudo de la Basura". The rest of your post simply confirms the OP. Thank you for that. Still no facts; still no logic; still no reasoning

 

The Myth maker in full bloom... adios

 

Myth and Fact: Did Arab Leaders Encourage Palestinians to Flee in 1948?

~Mitchell G. Bard

Myth

"Arab leaders never encouraged the Palestinians to flee." (a la KLIPKLAP ya3ni...)

Fact

A plethora of evidence exists demonstrating that Palestinians were encouraged to leave their homes to make way for the invading Arab armies.

The Economist, a frequent critic of the Zionists, reported on October 2, 1948: “Of the 62,000 Arabs who formerly lived in Haifa not more than 5,000 or 6,000 remained. Various factors influenced their decision to seek safety in flight. There is but little doubt that the most potent of the factors were the announcements made over the air by the Higher Arab Executive, urging the Arabs to quit... It was clearly intimated that those Arabs who remained in Haifa and accepted Jewish protection would be regarded as renegades.”

Time’s report of the battle for Haifa (May 3, 194 was similar: “The mass evacuation, prompted partly by fear, partly by orders of Arab leaders, left the Arab quarter of Haifa a ghost city... By withdrawing Arab workers their leaders hoped to paralyze Haifa.”

Benny Morris, the historian who documented instances where Palestinians were expelled, also found that Arab leaders encouraged their brethren to leave. Starting in December 1947, he said, “Arab officers ordered the complete evacuation of specific villages in certain areas, lest their inhabitants ‘treacherously’ acquiesce in Israeli rule or hamper Arab military deployments.” He concluded, “There can be no exaggerating the importance of these early Arab-initiated evacuations in the demoralization, and eventual exodus, of the remaining rural and urban populations” (Benny Morris, The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem Revisited, MA: Cambridge University Press, 2004, p. 590.)

The Arab National Committee in Jerusalem, following the March 8, 1948, instructions of the Arab Higher Committee, ordered women, children and the elderly in various parts of Jerusalem to leave their homes: “Any opposition to this order... is an obstacle to the holy war... and will hamper the operations of the fighters in these districts.” The Arab Higher Committee also ordered the evacuation of “several dozen villages, as well as the removal of dependents from dozens more” in April-July 1948. “The invading Arab armies also occasionally ordered whole villages to depart, so as not to be in their way” (Middle Eastern Studies, January 1986; See also Morris, pp. 263 & 590-592).

Morris also said that in early May units of the Arab Legion ordered the evacuation of all women and children from the town of Beisan. The Arab Liberation Army was also reported to have ordered the evacuation of another village south of Haifa. The departure of the women and children, Morris says, “tended to sap the morale of the menfolk who were left behind to guard the homes and fields, contributing ultimately to the final evacuation of villages. Such two-tier evacuation — women and children first, the men following weeks later — occurred in Qumiya in the Jezreel Valley, among the Awarna bedouin in Haifa Bay and in various other places.”

In his memoirs, Haled al Azm, the Syrian Prime Minister in 1948-49, also admitted the Arab role in persuading the refugees to leave:

“Since 1948 we have been demanding the return of the refugees to their homes. But we ourselves are the ones who encouraged them to leave. Only a few months separated our call to them to leave and our appeal to the United Nations to resolve on their return” (The Memoirs of Haled al Azm, Beirut, 1973, Part 1, pp. 386-387).

Who gave such orders? Leaders like such as Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri Said, who declared: “We will smash the country with our guns and obliterate every place the Jews seek shelter in. The Arabs should conduct their wives and children to safe areas until the fighting has died down” (Myron Kaufman, The Coming Destruction of Israel, NY: The American Library Inc., 1970, pp. 26-27).

The Secretary of the Arab League Office in London, Edward Atiyah, wrote in his book, The Arabs: “This wholesale exodus was due partly to the belief of the Arabs, encouraged by the boastings of an unrealistic Arabic press and the irresponsible utterances of some of the Arab leaders that it could be only a matter of weeks before the Jews were defeated by the armies of the Arab States and the Palestinian Arabs enabled to re(*)enter and retake possession of their country” (Edward Atiyah, The Arabs, London: Penguin Books, 1955, p. 183).

“The refugees were confident their absence would not last long, and that they would return within a week or two,” Monsignor George Hakim, a Greek Orthodox Catholic Bishop of Galilee told the Beirut newspaper, Sada al-Janub (August 16, 194. “Their leaders had promised them that the Arab Armies would crush the ’Zionist gangs’ very quickly and that there was no need for panic or fear of a long exile.”

On April 3, 1949, the Near East Broadcasting Station ( Cyprus ) said: “It must not be forgotten that the Arab Higher Committee encouraged the refugees’ flight from their homes in Jaffa, Haifa and Jerusalem” (Samuel Katz, Battleground-Fact and Fantasy in Palestine, NY: Bantam Books, 1985, p. 15).

“The Arab States encouraged the Palestine Arabs to leave their homes temporarily in order to be out of the way of the Arab invasion armies,” according to the Jordanian newspaper Filastin, (February 19, 1949).

One refugee quoted in the Jordan newspaper, Ad Difaa (September 6, 1954), said: “The Arab government told us: Get out so that we can get in. So we got out, but they did not get in.”

“The Secretary-General of the Arab League, Azzam Pasha, assured the Arab peoples that the occupation of Palestine and Tel Aviv would be as simple as a military promenade,” said Habib Issa in the New York Lebanese paper, Al Hoda (June 8, 1951). “He pointed out that they were already on the frontiers and that all the millions the Jews had spent on land and economic development would be easy booty, for it would be a simple matter to throw Jews into the Mediterranean... Brotherly advice was given to the Arabs of Palestine to leave their land, homes and property and to stay temporarily in neighboring fraternal states, lest the guns of the invading Arab armies mow them down.”

The Arabs’ fear was naturally exacerbated by stories of real and imagined Jewish atrocities following the attack on Deir Yassin. The native population lacked leaders who could calm them; their spokesmen, such as the Arab Higher Committee, were operating from the safety of neighboring states and did more to arouse their fears than to pacify them. Local military leaders were of little or no comfort. In one instance the commander of Arab troops in Safed went to Damascus. The following day, his troops withdrew from the town. When the residents realized they were defenseless, they fled in panic. “As Palestinian military power was swiftly and dramatically crushed, and the Haganah demonstrated almost unchallenged superiority in successive battles,” Benny Morris noted, “Arab morale cracked, giving way to general, blind, panic, or a ‘psychosis of flight,’ as one IDF intelligence report put it” (King Abdallah, My Memoirs Completed, (London: Longman Group, Ltd., 197, p. xvi; Morris, p. 591).

According to Dr. Walid al-Qamhawi, a former member of the Executive Committee of the PLO, “it was collective fear, moral disintegration and chaos in every field that exiled the Arabs of Tiberias, Haifa and dozens of towns and villages” (Joseph Schechtman, The Refugee in the World, NY: A.S. Barnes and Co., 1963, p. 186).

As panic spread throughout Palestine, the early trickle of refugees became a flood, numbering more than 200,000 by the time the provisional government declared the independence of the State of Israel.

Even Jordan’s King Abdullah, writing in his memoirs, blamed Palestinian leaders for the refugee problem:

The tragedy of the Palestinians was that most of their leaders had paralyzed them with false and unsubstantiated promises that they were not alone; that 80 million Arabs and 400 million Muslims would instantly and miraculously come to their rescue (Yehoshofat Harkabi, Arab Attitudes To Israel, Jerusalem: Israel Universities Press, 1972, p. 364).

“The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny but, instead, they abandoned them, forced them to emigrate and to leave their homeland, and threw them into prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live.”

— Palestinian Authority (then) Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen) (Falastin a-Thaura, (March 1976)

 

This is just becoming ridiculous. I say we bring this debate over to the politicalforum's debate section and settle it there. Let some neutral forum members say what they think about this debate...

 

Dear Forum readers,

The above is the sum total of HBendor's response to the revelation that in a reference that he himself provided - http://palestine-studies.org/enakba/exodus/Erskine Childers, Walid Khalidi, Jon Kimche, et al.pdf - the UK Zionist publisher Jon Kimche was surgically taken to pieces by Khalidi and Childers when he suggested that the Palestinian flight was due to orders from the Arab leaders.

And yet HBendor is not even embarrassed!! He pretends that NOTHING has happened. Notwithstanding this enormous recent faux pas of his, notwithstanding his own annihilation of the Number 1 Zionist Myth, I predict that he will continue to insist that exhortations to flee by the Arab leadership was the main cause of the Palestinian exodus.

I refer you to the OP for a generalisation of this style of self-dillusionment. .

 

Sooooooooooooooooooooo you persist on losing again like the myth maker has directed you all...
Well you know what you want in life when you are past 21... In the mean time go play with kids your age.
There is nothing to discuss here... Israel is 64 year old going on a few thousands soon... keep on barking the wrong tree.

 

HBendor, have you perhaps spotted that your latest offering is from exactly the same Shmuel Katz list provided by Borat three days ago.... and TRASHED by Khalid?

Do you know that it is exactly the same list from Commentary Magazine offered up in the past by Abu Afak and Moyshe III, and debunked by Ashley? Do you know that it is the same list heated up in the microwave and reserved by I.Beletesri and trashed by Klipkap.

HBendor ... check this out ... LMAO ... (points up) ... your so-called rebuttal contains the same old Shmuel Katz trash about the Cyprus radio broadcast monitoring - proved to be a blatant lie in 1961 in your own "read this" reference from 2 days ago [walks of chuckling and shaking his head].

Oy Vey!! Talk about Zionist Myth repetition. Do they pay you by the word or by the hour?

Khalid, I look forward to seeing this list from HBendor appear in PoliticalForum's debating section.

 

I posted the thread into the Debate section: http://www.politicalforum.com/debates-contests/273140-why-did-palestinians-leave-1948-war.html

 

BTW guys ,i'm a proud zionist , and never apologised for it.

 

And that is respected. Because you have shown that you are not a mindless defender of everything that has been done in the name of Zionism.
You are also an honest debater, which means that the OP would not apply to you

 

Aye right enough, some people don't have the sense they were born with ..... its called stupidity or in some ignorance,...... and some both!

If the cap fits .......!

Highlander