The War Within: GOP Meltdown (Conservative opinions needed!)

Full article here: There Is A Brutal Civil War In The GOP, And It Looks Like Karl Rove Will Be The First Casualty

To the conservatives on this board (and anyone else who has been paying attention to the election): Do you believe this to be true, and what do you think the solution is to the problem? Whom do you side with on this issue? The party or the base? Personally as a moderate republican/libertarian I'm so disillusioned I dont' care anymore and wouldn't mind seeing both the Democratic and Republicans parties give way to a multiparty system, but the Republican party is definitely further down that road than is the Democratic party.

My source is Business Insider if you want more information about the site.

 

I don't know what the solution is... but I do know if I was a George Soros-type who had enough $$$ to make sure Obama stayed in office... this is the exact outcome I'd want.

Obama gets another 4 years and whites blame other whites for Romney's defeat.

Couldn't be a more perfect ending if they'd have written the script.

Democrats lie... and many Americans are too dumb to question them. Therein lies the problem... do Republicans sink to their level?

Let’s break down what Obama, Pelosi, Reid, the Obama SuperPACs, et. all were saying for a year and a half:

•Republicans are prosecuting a war on women
•Romney only cares about his rich friends and Wall Street
•Romney is responsible for the death of a woman by somehow giving her cancer
•Romney specialized in closing down businesses, laying people off and outsourcing jobs — especially to China
•Romney is a liar. All he does is lie. And, after he lies, he lies about the lies he told.
•Republicans are trying to outlaw contraception
•Republicans are trying to close down Planned Parenthood to stop women from getting cancer screenings
•Republicans want to put all Latinos on buses and send them back to Mexico
•Republicans think rape is okay — and women should just stop talking about it
•Republicans all own stock in oil companies and are forcing gas prices up
•Republicans want to give rich people a tax break and make the poor and Middle Class to make up the difference
•Romney hates half the country (47%)
•Romney will end Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid

Democrats lie.

 

Let me try a serious response. The GOP "Establishment" didn't want to win this election anyway, and they don't give a (*)(*)(*)(*) about the "base" and would prefer it if the Tea partiers, bigots, and religious nuts would go latch onto (and destroy) some other party. In the meantime, they (the establishment) have been grooming their first-string candidates for 2016 by encouraging them to observe this election from the sidelines. Four years from now the GOP will offer a strong field for the first time in about 28 years.

Also, Karl Rove will be a casualty either way, because the base hates him and the Establishment thinks he's a dick.

 

I'll also answer seriously.

The Republican party must do nothing less than re-make itself. Not in a cosmetic way, but substantively. Neither wing of the party addresses the concerns of the majority of Americans.

The Establishment wing for 8 years told us that deregulation would unleash the power of the free market (and instead led to the disastrous real estate bubble and the near collapse of the banking system). We were told that tax cuts for the wealthy would produce untold millions of jobs (which never materialized). We were told that two wars could just go on the national credit card (where were you then, fiscally responsible Republicans?). The American people aren't stupid. We understand that the near-depression which started at the end of those 8 years was caused by those very policies: deregulation, unnecessary tax cuts, and unfunded wars. This, in the minds of many Americans, is what the Republican Establishment stands for now: Very rich people trying to get even richer at the expense of everyone else.

The Tea Party, on the other hand, is just crazy. At least, that's the view of most Americans, as demonstrated by the election. Other than some incumbent House members, almost no Tea Party-backed candidates were elected. They aren't even to be taken seriously as a governing force.

If it wants to survive, the GOP must return to its good-government roots. It must become fiscally responsible in reality. It must be willing to negotiate with the Democrats in good faith and it must be willing to compromise. It must get out of the business of legislating morality, and it must stop trying to turn America into a theocracy. It must stop demonizing the disadvantaged and begin to address their legitimate concerns. It must purge itself of the Limbaughs and the Roves, and it must repudiate Grover Norquist. It must divorce itself from voter suppression and the Southern Strategy. It must begin appealing to the best in us, not the worst.

 

I guess Soros had more money then the Koch Brothers.

 

Very well stated, although their problem really is their base. It's a double-edged sword, because while relying on talk radio and Fox News to rile up the unwashed masses brings out voters, it also makes them visible to the rest of us, which alienates moderates, independents, and especially minorities. There is also a severe information disadvantage among conservatives, and this election really put a spotlight on that because election results can't be spun away, it's a cold, hard reality. In order to win elections, they need to ascend this tea-party, talk radio, WND crowd (essentially most conservatives on this board) and channel their pre-Gingrich roots. There was a time when Conservatives were the ones who really cared about facts and data, while Liberals were perceived as being driven primarily by emotion. The dynamic has completely reversed, as now we see the vocal movement conservatives are motivated by FOX News hyped "scandals" and casting aspersions on math and logic because it didn't to a Romney victory (by the way, Nate Silver was 100% right, yay math!)

If the GOP can get out of people's bedrooms and have a common-sense approach to governing, they could attract many new voters, myself included. I highly doubt they will be able to cast aside these tea-party, rape-justifying, Aiken-defending...let me just be blunt here, the idiots. The idiots hold them back, and the fact that people like Allen West and Joe Walsh lost this cycle proves it, not to mention the "rape guys". I don't think they'll be able to escape these adherents though, and will continue to alienate many people who don't fall into the white/religious/male demographic.

 

Cloak, I agree that the transformation I wish for may not be possible any more, because of the Tea Party base. They may have been repudiated by the voters, but will probably still hold the whip hand with the congressional Republicans, because of their oft-carried-out threat of challenging moderate Republicans in the primaries. Unfortunately, this has been successful in almost every case, to the point where every Republican in congress is either a Tea-Partier, or terrifed of the Tea-Partiers.

There might be a glimmer of hope, though. There are reports tonight that Boehner has told his troops that they need to accept that they got an ass-kicking on Tuesday, and that they are in a weakened position. He told them that the country is in no mood for intransigence and the sort of brinksmanship of the debt ceiling fight last year. It's reported that instead of loud revolt, the members, "subdued and dark, murmured words of support — even a few who had been a thorn in the speaker’s side for much of this Congress."

OTOH, Mitch McConnell is up for re-election in 2014, so I'm afraid his top priority will be fending off a primary challenge.

 

Thanks for sharing, but we already figured out the Republicans were looney after watching the wonderful RNC Alzheimers crowd applauding a man having a discussion with a chair.

Note: Me being a simpathetic Democrat, I have recognized the impairment Rupublicans are suffering from, and thus changed my avatar to a progressive chair, as a means to leave a channel open for dialogue.

 

The Tea Party isn't the problem with the Republican Party, at least the people aren't. The Tea Party establishment may be somewhat authoritarian, but a lot of the people simply want lower Federal spending and a return to greater state sovereignty.

The problem with the Republican Party is the social conservative wing. Most Americans (especially minorities and females) can't stand totalitarian social policy. If you want to reform the Republican Party to the will of the people you should make it the party of economic and social liberalism. I can guarantee that if they undercut the Democrats on social policy (let's be honest, the Dems are only very slightly better anyway) they would win any election thrown at them.

This post is taken from a political perspective. I don't think Republican leaders should go against their faith or anything, I think there should be a bottom up restructuring of the party to cater better to the needs of Americans.

 

The GOP needs to focus on fiscal conservatism, and, on a federal level, leave the social issues alone as much as possible. Fiscal conservatism has nationwide appeal, and getting the US's financial house in order just makes sense. I don't suggest just letting the liberals have their way socially, but let the states decide. Let liberal states be liberal and conservative states be conservative on social issues. Let there be choice, and let people vote with their feet. The GOP has been letting social issues drag them down nationally. Win the states you can win, and leave the rest alone. Of course, they will have to fight liberals who will want to enforce their liberalism in all 50 states, but make it clear that the goal is to keep the feds out of it. That will fend off charges of "the government in my bedroom" in national elections, while still allowing a more traditional environment in states that want it.

 

As a left leaning Libertarian I'm not requested to comment on this thread.


But I will anyway.


I remember the Republican primaries. It was a marginal candidate..."the moderate whom the right thinks worships a cult, Miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit Romneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey!!!!!!"

Versus a bunch of crackpots.

And what did the right do? It threw every piece on nonsense it could image at Romney, depleting his finances, tarnishing his viability. Cannibalized itself. And then diluted itself to the facts....which is the default mode of consciousness for the religious. But still, the Republicans ate themselves for lunch.

 

----------------------

>>> If you really want genuine Conservatives' views, close to the People,


=> Here is one : http://www.politicalforum.com/elect...american-popular-values-movement-apovamo.html

* But sorry for RINOS, Libs, and other usual Submarins : - It's an original, deeply thought and honest viewpoint, based on the Experience of Many Decades of US Presidential Elections and others, but mainly on the real, full Fights which took place during the 2004, 2008, 2010 and 2012 US Elections (crucial Primaries naturally included)...

On the contrary, if you prefer to stick only to the usual Bla-bla, bombarded by obviously biaised Fake Mass Media, of which most People are notoriously fed up, you can just drop it and persist in this thread's downward slipery slope...

 

I'm not conservative, either, but I do have one piece of advice:

When a party equates "returning to the tax rates of the 1990s" to "AHHH!!! SOCIALISM!!! TAKERS!!! MAKERS!!!", they're not dealing with reality very well.

Ditch the baroque extremism, and maybe you'll discover there's all sorts of common ground for solving actual problems.

 

I was going to post this same thing so I won't repeat it but I would add that the GOP needs some young blood. These old rich guys and soccer moms need to go and get some people of color up there center stage who won't stand still for being called a sell-out.

The GOP needs to aggressively attack the democrats on fiscal issues and really ease up on their social stances. Come out and say we are neither for or against gay marriage but its a State decision so let the decide it themselves. Maybe even craft some legislation to that effect.

Get off the stupid birth control issue and drop religion from your platform. Focus on fixing our economy and they will do a lot better. Democrats are extremely weak on this area and if you take away their social issue advantage you are ahead of the game.

And for pete's sake start making some inroads in California, Oregon, and Washington. The GOP should be working that state right now and offering ways to fix their crumbling economies, California especially. They need to come up with a plan and blanket that State for the next 4 years to get those 55 electoral votes out of democratic hands. Just writing off that State is a huge huge mistake because that's also where the entertainment industry is based.

You need to start getting Hollywood and the media at least to a neutral stance.

 

The solution is in state's rights. By embracing it, you can make room for anti abortion social Conservatives while at the same time make room for legalize drugs Libertarians.

The national government should be limited to military defense and foreign policy. Domestic issues i.e. social and economic policy, should be handled by the states.

Think about it. Why would a NYC woman fear a Conservative president when he has no ability to implement laws that may jeopardize her rights to an abortion. Or jeopardize any of cherished welfare programs.

This will take time to implement. But the payoff will be immense because if it pulled off, then people will turn to their state government for solutions. Not Washington DC.

 

Conservatives have to RISE to the level of Democrats.

 

How can conservatives attack Democrats on fiscal issues when every single conservative fiscal policy is an abject failure?
What are they going to attack on?

First thing the cons need to do is admit their policies don't work, never and never will. Then they need to stop blaming the (*)(*)(*)(*) media.
Then START telling the truth!

 

I agree with what you say but you will never get the ------- liberal jews in LA to change ther way The bestway to take care of the huge pile of (*)(*)(*)(*) that is Southern California would be to drop a dozen powerful nuclear bombs on it.

 

I think you are right... They really didn't want this election.

 

We've never had a real conservative in office. One that believes in only spending money you don't have to borrow and if you have to borrow to spend then you don't spend. So you can't say that their policies don't work since we've never ever used their policies.

 

Well here's a convenient and typical refrain from foamers as they shrug responsibility for bankrupting the country!

The next thing they're going to tell us is that reagan and boy george were raving liberals!

 

Are you saying that the sainted Ronald Reagan wasn't a real conservative??

 

It's very simple, drop the base. The base are all idiots anyways. Lose the dumb social rhetoric that doesn't appeal to non whites and promise tax cuts to all Americans except the wealthy. When asked about social issues make it clear that the candidate cannot force his views onto others and people will accept it. The base will vote for you regardless stop wooing the idiots and start wooing the people with brains that actually matter.

 

Should have went with Ron Paul. Enjoy the infighting and the destruction of your party Republicans.

 

Should have went with Ron Paul. Enjoy the infighting and the destruction of your party Republicans.