The Late, Not So Great, Conservatism >> Say Good Bye

What Has Conservatism Brought The U.S.?

Nothing. There is no policy in place initiated by conservatives that lasted.

• Item: The U.S. economy has picked up and growth is underway under Obama.
• Item: California's financial misfortunes are beginning to straighten out under Gov. Jerry Brown.
• Item: The Affordable Care Act will be fully in place by January 2014. It's not going away, it's not going to be repealed. As John Boner said, "it's the law of the land."

NEW VOTERS
Looks like the end is coming. Demographics support this map...

* 432,000 new Hispanic American voters for 2014 and 900,000 for 2016 in Texas. This as opposed to 185,000 new Caucasian voters in 185,000 new Caucasian voters for 2016.

New Hispanic Voters:

• Florida will have 282,000 (2014) and 600,000 (2016)
• Georgia will have 83,000 (2014) and 189,000 (2016)
• Nevada will have 47,000 (2014) and 111,000 (2016).
• Alabama will have 39,000 (2014) and 101,600 (2016)
• Iowa will have 10,700 (2014) and 23,200 (2016)

Note that the new Caucasian voters fall fantastically shorter in numbers year-by-year.

Granted, Hispanics are not a monolithic voting group, however, the new and younger voters do tend to vote progressive. Even if the turnout is low, conservatives lose.

The source is the Center For American Progress and verified by Nate Silver of FiveThirtyEight.com ...the statistician, sabermetrician, psephologist ...graduate of the prestigious University of Chicago and London School of Economics who called the 2012 Presidential race with nearly 100% accuracy, better than any other source while Karl Rove, sweating like a pig, took his nub of a pencil and tried to eek out votes in various counties.

An article here

You want your country back? No. It was never *your* country to begin with. Each time you've had the wheel, you drove America into a ditch.

 

Want to see a rightwinger run out of debate material VERY fast?


Ask them when in the entire history of the US, has the "conservative" position on the major issues of the day...prevailed? Wasn't eventually usurped or eliminated by the progressive position on the issue?

Some lamely try to convince you that "ending slavery" was conservative, because it happened under a Republican President....but it wasn't. Keeping slavery legal would have been the "conservative"....i.e. status quo....states' rights....position to take.

Same for labor rights, workers rights, safe food and drugs, breaking up monopolies....the conservative position lost. Ditto civil rights.....Ike was a Republican, so were the Republican who supported Civil Rights.....but they weren't "conservative" on the issue. Again, the conservative position would have been "states' rights" and letting Jim Crow stand.

From the days when non-property owners were given the right to vote in the 1820s.....conservatism has always....eventually.....failed.

 

...and our domination in the world in all areas has decreased because of newer generations lack of values and work ethic(common Liberal trait). Happy? The rest of the world, that matters, has mostly caught up. We should be so proud=)

 

To be fair, todays GOP has absolutely nothing to do with conservatism. The party's gone it's own errant way leaving real conservatives behind. Todays GOP is nothing but kneejerk reactionaries lead by the likes of entertainers Beck and Limbaugh and idiots like Palin and Bachman.

True conservatism should work hand in hand with liberalism as a modifier and leveler.

 

What a stupid point. You say that conservatism v. 'progressivism' is the difference between the old and the new, and then go on to say that conservatism ('the old') has never implemented a new and lasting policy. Yeah, that's not the least bit circular. But at least it alleviates any need for you to think.

 

It started to die when they made their "deal with the Devil"...i.e. Nixon's Southern Strategy. Dropping traditional Republican support for civil rights to try to woo disenchanted Dixiecrats by pandering to racism.

Then it became even further radicalism when it even rejected the warnings of Barry Goldwater...and embraced the theocrats in the Religious Right.

Further still as Rightwing Media (Radio, Fox) began pushing the agenda so far into extremism (to gain ratings....radical and yelling key to keeping them tuned in).....that it became a weird combination of militarism, fascism, anarcho-libertarianism, and theocratism.

Where today? Ike would be called a "Commie racial agitator"...and Ronald Reagan couldn't even win the GOP Nomination for President.

 

At its basic definition.....conservatism is about keeping the status quo. Politically in the US it also means strict, non-expansive views of the Constitution and abject Federalism...i.e. "states' rights" and "only what the Founders intended".

Giving non-property owners the right to vote....was progressive, not the conservative position. Fighting the Civil War and ending slavery...was progressive, not conservative. Pure Food and Drug Act and breaking up monopolies....Teddy Roosevelt, later candidate for the PROGRESSIVE Party. Giving women the right to vote....the same. Social Security...same. Integrating the military...same. Integrating schools....same. PROGRESSIVE Republicans defeated CONSERVATIVE Democrats....to pass the Civil Rights and Voting Acts. Abortion rights....loss for those who wanted it illegal and/or kept as a "state matter". Environmental regulations? Gay rights?

Time after time....for almost two hundred years....this country has moved FORWARD....not stood still or moved backward (atleast not permanently).

Your ideology....over the long haul...is DOOMED to fail.

 

1) hyper-partisan bs. Only a partisan actually thinks there is such a clear divide. There are radical conservatives, neoconservatives, federalists, libertarians, fundamentalists, evangelicals, paleo-conservatives, fiscal conservatives, etc.
2) most politicians 'at the wheel' have been centrists or left of center. For example, Bush wasn't a fiscal conservative or a libertarian, yet you make this false clear divide.
3) The premise of your 'impending doom' for the conservatives is based on a false understanding that because minorities currently lean left, they will always lean left. Anyone who knows Latin culture (and isn't a partisan) knows that Latinos are more conservative than whites, but have trended left because of the right's policies on immigration. After Bush's victories the left actually became more 'God-friendly.' Your assumptions are that neither side will ever change, and that's why it's wrong.

 

Dare I say it's quite embarassing for you, to be an american, to not know what one of the two dominating ideologies in your country, conservatism in this case, actually stands for, and have me, a swede, know it better.

If you weren't a sheep you'd realise that conservatism isn't simply preferring the status quo. You'd know that conservatism is a mindset: To prefer the tested to the untested, the known to the unkown. Conservatism strives for gradual change (preferring the status quo just because is also conservatism but most conservatism don't simply want status quo, so that a very small part of conservatism). Thus you could say that since there hasn't been a revolution in teh US with the exception of the revolutionary war, the conservative approach is the one who has always succeeded.

To look at the US and notice that it isn't the same as a hundred years ago, and call that a failure of conservatism when it's really a sign of it's success, is but a sign of mental deficiency or willfull ignorance.

 

stability. But nevermind that, I think it's enough that conservatism based on liberalism is what the US was founded on.

slavery still seems to be illegal in the states no? Are you really unaware of this, and other things, or are you willfully trying to look as stupid as possible?

Yeah, the reagan years were terrible weren't they? and abe, ouch don't mention that one. and eisenhover. yeah, into the dtich alright. No seriously, what's that statement based on?

 

Qualify your answer (stability).

Yes, anti-slavery. A very progressive concept. Conservatism is comfortable with what is, the status quo, Slave owners were quite conservative and used the Bible to justify slavery. Let's pull that forward to today where conservatism ditched the voting rights act.

It depends which side of the fence you were on. There was no real change that occurred. He decreased taxes yet also brought taxes back as the country went into recession at the end of his term. The statement you question refers to the period of 2001-2008.

Eisenhower was quite progressive for a Republican in having the tax rates for the wealthy in the 90% area... created a new infrastructure including the interstate highway system, and a warning of the "military industrial complex" which is seriously beloved by conservatives today. Eisenhower was even called a communist by a conservative named Joe McCarthy.

 

So you are to blame for all our current problems then huh? I will make sure to remember that Leon county Dem from high poverty democrat run Tallahassee says that the reason Americans have less net wealth now then when carter was in office is ecause of failed democrat policies.

 

Ended slavery, got women the right to work, got civil rights before you all tarnished it with affirmative action, brought a little sense to the economy, monetarist policy fixed out inflation in the 1980s, oh...and conservatism made us the world superpower before your distributive socialist policies came about. Larger immigration levels absorbed then too.

 

conservatism is all about stability. Conservatives are there ones who are mostly always in a majority, the other part being potential revolutionaries, and thus make sure change comes slowly rather than through revolution.

That's a bit disingenious, to simply dress every step in any direction as progressivism and all status quo as conservatism. Suffice to say that the conservatives of the 18th century aren't the same as those a hundred years later, and non of those are the same as those today. Thus, there are many different conservatives. One could say that the lincoln conservatives, who could be called progressives, are the conservatives of today and that the conservatives during lincoln time simply are no more, died off. One could also say that lincoln was a conservative in that he saw that slavery was wrong and wanted some gradual change to remove it. Conservatism, you know, isn't something that can stand alone as an ideology, provided it's a reformist kind of consevatism; id est one that want to change, albeit slowly, in some direction, as opposed to just status quo conservatism. The direction it wants to slowly change things to is the other ideology that fullfills this specific kind of conservatism, if you're still following me. In abe case, that was conservatism( as I've already explained) coupled with classical liberalism, which is opposed to slavery for obvious reasons.

Quite an explaination wasn't? boy, do I love explaining conservatism. A hobby of mine.

 

Call it what you like. Bothers you, doesn't it? I don't know if that's correct since I'm further left than most and disagree with those slightly to my right but considered leftists by the right. Like others, I also have conservative points.

And what are you in that toxic stew? Libertarian? Paleo? Godster? You're big on "partisan" aren't you? I've known the terms for quite some time, son. Nothing new here. As progressives gather more momentum, your fractured group of nerdowells stay fractured. Your people are too rigid, too ideological, restrictive in broader thinking or the adopting of new ideas.

I'm just tossing him in your camp based on the "clear vote" of 2000.

It is your contention that these minorities will lean right when the planet as a whole moves left. Latinos more conservative than whites. Hmmm. The vote didn't go that way, did it? You are basing your opinion on older Hispanics. When those Cuban-Americans voted for Obama, the split began between your historically conservative Cuban-Americans and progressive, younger Cuban-Americans.

The left became more God friendly? What the what! Christianity is on the way out. People born between 1983 and 1994... 32% are atheists. Non-believers increase with each generation.

 

I would say that we're actually more of a right wing nation because of what we now define as conservatism. It's managed to shape our entire mindset, and has stuck with out for 200+ years.

 

This is a truth that needs to be repeated over and over and over for out thick headed right wing friends that post here.

 

A bit bothered? And what makes you think Leon Co. is poverty stricken? Would you please rewrite your statement in connected English?

 

I do not wish to live in a world without conservatives any more than I wish to live in a world without liberals.

We need all manner of viewpoints to keep things honest and balanced. There is not a single ideology on this planet that has a monopoly on being right.

 

The government workers there have a lot of cash and big houses for sure. They make no product or service anyone would willing pay for, but they take from others and the Democrats are strong there, so of course they are rich. But the other locals, they are struggling. I lived there. Even held public office there. You won't fool me.

 

You my think that though it's inaccurate. Right and left are more split by social policy rather than say international relations and policy. Right wing has always been referred to as conservative. No, there's no line defining where right and left begin. It's just a gradual slide somewhat like in a color scale from white to black.. a lot of shades of gray between. However, use gay rights/marriage, universal health care, the environment, race relations, climate change, etc. and you will find a division. Also the country did not vote conservative by winning house seats, senate seats, and Presidency.

 

FYI the interstate highway system was designed to fight the Soviet Union, the cold war, the public just benifitted from it. We needed to move military fast from coast to coast and inland landing strips anywhere...

 

It's a perceived stability, not actual stability. Majority? No longer. You'll have to explain the last election where the left won house, senate, and Presidency. Some change does come slow and it depends on the subject.

No, not any direction. Just forward and in a fast way. Any direction? Like sideways? Please.

And there is electricity instead of oil lamps. You'll have to add specifics to that so that I can evaluate it properly. I don't do vague.

Abolishing slavery was a very progressive move. A tradition, Biblical tradition, was wrecked and a major social ill addressed. And you are correct. One cannot use party labels to explain their policies.

MSG.. I'm very sure a status quo conservatism cannot exist in a strict sense. There has to be change.

The direction, in general, conservatives go is forward though extremely slow with tradition as a social anchor.

Tossing in a little sly down your nose buzz there? You can ill afford to do that, MSG.

Possibly you should also take up spelling as well.

You could use some help from someone. Explaining politics is not a hobby of mine, I majored in political science and international affairs...so there's nothing you will enlighten me with politically and you are very likely to learn from me. I believe I called you "son" merely because I'm older than you.

What you need to do is explain "liberal"... the actual classical liberalism because they do not understand what that is.

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FYI... I already knew that 35 years ago. Please find me something I don't know.

 

Then why are you trying to imply it was progressive? not cool to leave out the details for younger viewers..

 

You seem to be slightly confused and lacking general knowledge. Conservatism was not anti-slavery, pro-women in work... a conservatism fought to keep affirmative action from happening. Do not get party names or labels confused with general ideology and core principles.

So, we were not a super power after socialist policies took place? What decade are you referring to? I can explain why America was a super power and it's all based on physical geography. No god, no capitalism.