Justified criticism of Abbott on foreign policy

I think this is a pretty fair criticism, even leaving out the international "Labor bashing" which is somewhat understandable, in private or in opposition, but not so understandable as a government, on TV, overseas. It's neither relevant or professional to Abbott's goals as leader.

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/pm-stumbling-around-the-international-stage-20131105-2wz4q.html

 

This was exactly my concern about Abbott, now the world will think we're all fools, not just those that voted for the idiot

 

They already do after the total inept ability of the ALP on the world stage. Have you been hiding in your closet again???

 

'Now' they will think we are all fools DV? After Rudd and Gillard's performances, especialy Rudd's, 'they' have been thinking we are all fools for quite some time now. Unfortunately Abbott does not have a great public persona so is not doing anything to change 'their' minds.

 

Oh, so show me the links to where overseas people would think Rudd and Gillard performed badly. I have read nothing but praise for them, Abbott on the other hand doesn't have any kind of persona, he is just a fool, I have thought that about him for a long time since he was the health minister. He was a fool then, has been a fool ever since, and from what I have read was a fool before. The only bigger fools than Abbott is the fools who allowed him such a high office. Maybe janitor would be a better job, maybe, just maybe he wouldn't stuff that up.

 

um no have you? Rudd and Gillard did very well overseas, they did well here also, it is those with LNP goggles on that can't see it.

Rudd borrowed a couple of billion to get us through the GFC. Abbott wants to borrow a couple of billion to .. to .. to.. oh that's right, we don't know what he is doing, he won't share "Our Plan" with us. I really think it is because he doesn't know what he is doing himself. Don't forget, what happens now lies fair and square on the shoulders of those who voted Abbott and the LNP into power.

 

Funny that, maybe the Asia solution with the boat people might jog your memory... many other example exist...

Back to making things up I see. Perhaps you could tell us what Abbott is borrowing??? Maybe you consider the raising of the debt ceiling to cover already budgeted borrowings (by the ALP) as Coalition loans, but that is actually a lie as you have nothing to show of any borrowings of the Coalition.

Why is that???

Because he won’t tell you what he is doing.

Come on DV, tell the truth, You are just upset that Abbott is not out on the door step telling you what you want to hear. A rather bold and intelligent move on his part, but I am sure it will be missed on you. By not running around trying to tell everybody how good a job he is doing he is not giving you the ammunition. He would rather be held to his actions not his words. By doing this he is bold in the fact that this leaves the ALP to attack through the media without real defence. Intelligent as the ALP seem so far lost to actually bring decent and reasonable deconstruction of the Coalition policy. This however, is irrelevant at this time as nothing has been done. People can look to say this and that but truth is the parliament has not returned so in general everything is simply rhetoric and pure speculation.

That it is, but your speculations of his future performance would seem a little out of step with reality as just by being elected confidence has risen which is more than the ALP could do for the economy with three years of governance.

On another note and far from party politics, is the time rapidly closing that the continued ignoring of the high costs to manufacturing has reached a tipping point where business is moving away from Australia??? Caterpillar now announcing the move out of Australian manufacturing, Ford and several other international concerns. This we can place directly in UNION hands and some to the previous ALP government (Although more for accelerating the problem). Other than corporate welfare is there any other way to turn this situation around??? If not, where do these politicians consider they will get the money from???

As I am positive you will be unable to answer any of these questions, I am confident your prediction of future governance has about as much credit as a flee attacking a brick…

 

The rest of the world heaped PRAISE on both Rudd and Gillard. Don't believe the (*)(*)(*)(*) Murdoch told you.

 

Except he is not hiding anything, he is just not reporting to you and the media what they are doing. Fact is nothing has been kept secret or confidential. Masters of disasters have already been demonstrated to be thrown from power because they continued to run around at every oppotunity telling the media (ergo you) everything they think was promoting their policy (just not their policy) and getting themselves into so much trouble. They were a media delight, getting it all wrong. You are just complaining because if you want answers you have to now look for them. You have to compile information yourself and you have to decide what is right or wrong yourself.

Hitler, no matter what you think of him was no disaster. He was a megalomaniac, power driven, sh*t of a human but his economic and political actions (no matter how repulsive) did bring Germany to a world power to be reckoned with. You cannot deny that, the disaster came after his great achievements in history were achieved. Funny, somebody else in the ALP camp seemed to have some of the traits as of one of history’s greatest achievers and worst people. Fact is Hitler did nothing in secret, because he knew (unlike you) that you need to make people think these ideas are in their best interest. Which is exactly what he did. Sure his plans were secret, in line with every politician in the world including your own ALP/Greens association.

 

So, you reckon Hitler was a great achiever, and that the real disaster came after him ???????????????????????
Until now I took you sort of seriously, bot boy I don't know here you are from or what you think is right or wrong.....

By the way, the Greens/ALP were far more open and honest in letting us know what they were up to then our new PM and his secrecy....

 

You moron, his character as a human being was the disaster. BUT his achievement in bringing Germany back from the brink of obscurity is something to state as achievement. Only after introducing some radical reforms and economic development did his megalomania really begin. His humanity showed through and his designs on the world began. Get over yourself, just because he was the worst of humanity does not mean he did not achieve for his nation.

You wanted to say he worked in complete secrecy, yet you seem to know little about what he actually did. You just demonise him because he was one of the vilest of human individuals in the world at the time… Um, probably should say, he was the vilest, who was in position to commit great atrocities.

I don't really care what you think of me, it is pointless to assume anything. BUT this has nothing to do with what I think is right or wrong, it has to do with the actions of people who achieved much be it good or bad. YOU have decided that ALL Hitler did was evil and secretive when the fact is it was done completely in the open and with the then accolades of majority of people. Just because you decided his major achievement was evil (which it was) does not detract from the fact he achieved much more.

Really, did you know what really occurred during those years???

IT WAS YOUR ANNALOGY. Don’t complain when you get it wrong.

Garbage, As stated previously, did you know the Greens introduced a bill to stop plantation timber from being grown in Australia? Yet they claim that their policy is to introduce plantation timber as a viable alternative to old growth timber... Go figure, is that a secret? You bet your arse it is because they do not admit their own actions.

Talking about keeping secrets, apparently everybody is up in arms because they did not know that embassies spy (including you), they knew nothing of negotiations began during the ALP Government (which is frankly amazing). Funny to now say they do not act in secrecy when you are all complaining about actions the ALP/Greens are also involved (and far more heavily)...

So basically, your comment is of the fact you want to portray YOUR agenda as being far more ethical than the current government, when the fact is most of what you are complaining about is actions of your previous party you claim has higher standards than the current government who have been in power exactly how long??? Is that far more honest and open?? Rudd near destruction of negotiations with China was far more honest and open wasn't it?? How exactly did you find out about that??? Oh that is right, WIKILEAKS. How about the carbon Tax affair, sure that was honest and open??? What a joke…

 

Garry,
I wouldn't call you a moron....

Anyway, it seams we are quite different. To me, an achievement is something positive, as is eg. evolution.

So for me Hitler hasn't achieved anything.....except for 55 million being killed, but again, I hardly would talk about an achievement here....

And as you don't know me, I might know much more about this evil war as you can imagine.

The Greens can only move forward, and are not staying in the past, like the Liberals. For that reason they need to talk through their projects/ideas, make them public, to get as many people on-board, as anyhow possible. People can then decide, whether they like it or not.

Abbotts is ruling in secrecy, and as stated above, this has the potential to take a very wrong course....

But as you like the Libs so much, I am certain you will dismantle my words....

Cheereo

 

The secrecy will harm the government. Perhaps not right now but in the medium term it will. This is straight from the Bjelke-Petersen playbook and that will dawn on the population eventually. A tendency to secrecy in government can't be isolated to one particular policy area, it spreads right through government. Abbott is controlling - through Credlin - his own ministers and their staff. That won't take long to build up pressure and then the leaks will start. The Opposition will press on with exposing the unnecessary secrecy of this government and it will demonstrate its incompetence when the light is shone on its so-far hidden actions.

 

I call you a moron because you were deliberately trying to be obtuse. If this is not the case, then I suggest you go back to school and learn basic comprehension.

An achievement is meeting a goal you or anybody else sets out to achieve. As stated you are fixated on his worst achievement which has overshadowed many others. Again, all carried out in the face of the people and with majority support. No secret at all.

So in your mind Hitler was elected to office (YES ELECTED) and immediately went out and persecuted the Jews and invaded Poland. As I said, do you even know what happened in those years? Obviously not, because you know little about the history of Hitler’s governance. Yes, for Hitler to go out and commit such atrocities he first had to bring Germany out of economic obscurity to a power to be reckoned with. That did not happen overnight.

You might, but you obviously know little about Hitler’s governance, or you would not have attempted to use his ruling style to justify your thoughts about the current Australian government. When the fact is the closest that has come to an analogy is the leadership of an ALP member.

Except the Greens are saying one thing and doing another. Fact is the Greens are party to those very secrets you are complaining about but you wish to ignore that problem and pretend they are so innocent. Fact is, the actions of the Greens show more secrecy than any other party.

Abbott is simply not announcing everything to you and you hate it. Your complaints are simply of sour grapes hoping to get some ground, nothing more...

Of course I will, You raise several points in the one post, so they must be answered separately. Has nothing to do with what party I am supporting at this time, simply to the fact you want to spread your comment around so far so you can catch me out in some logical fallacy. So go for it.

 

Interesting, you consider that the ALP will move out of the inability for decent opposition to something of credibility? At this stage under the current ALP system I cannot see any way to actually change in such a manner as to capitalise on the fact they have an open slate to berate the government with. To me it seems the ALP are still beyond the knowledge to actually produce pressure to the Coalition to gain anything.

However, YOUR scenario is the danger of the Governments actions. I just don't see how the ALP, who could not even capitalise on their own actions can turn this around so far without decient reform.

 

Garry,
you are hopeless.
Hitler only became that strong, because he did many things in secret. He most certainly didn't tell the Germans or the world about his real plans on day one.
The Libs under Abbotts are taking away any transparency, for that the analogy is given. Why deny it?
Absolutely crap and a lie to call the Greens a *in secret acting party*. They wouldn't find any new members, if they did.
For some reason you appear not to like them, which is fine with me, but please don't talk utterly bullocks.
Only the stupid fall for the tactics Abbotts is using now, as they would have learned from history........
What I miss in your lines is a fair-minded opinion about reality.
I didn't like Gillard axing Rudd, nor did I like childish power games within the ALP.
But most of their programs were designed, to take us to a better future, incl. roof insulation or Carbon Tax, while under Abbotts we will fall even more behind.
The Greens are needed to show and fight for more sustainable ways in our future lives.
I can't really see what the Libs are needed or good for, 11 years were lost under J Howard, with another unjustified war under our belt.....
I really hope that Redneck Australia will come to an end one day, and a modern, fair and transparent nation takes place instead.
For that we need much more whistle blowers and should be proud of J.Assange or E.Snowden and Bradley.
But I do think, that Labor has to show much more class and leading style then they did so far, if they should ever be elected again.
Yeah, go dismantle my words,
Reg.

 

You obviously know little about the governance of Hitler’s, so how do you expect to understand what occurred and how it was done.

Due to the fact that neither are even closely compared.

What complete utter dribble. I assume you are a member, so why is it you do not know about the Greens introduction of a bill which puts a halt to the timber plantation industry in Australia? What about the entire Gunn’s issue??? Not secret, Bloody oath they were, as their actions showed the truth.

As you have clearly demonstrated you know little of the history you want to compare the current situation too, I think this to be the comment of the idealist rather than somebody who knows reality.

Because at the moment there is nothing to be fair minded about. Your rants over secrecy and spying is biased and completely based on that media that you declare as something to be ignored and deplored but yet you hang your hat on. Want to discuss fair minded, try bringing something real.

Design to take Australia to better future??? Insulation scheme??? People die for your future and your party wants to wash its hands of anything to do with it. Carbon Tax??? Even Governments own modelling shows REAL increases under the ALP/Greens carbon tax of about double the rate of emission at the time of introduction and you want to compare them to a scheme you know nothing about??? People have died because they could not afford your carbon tax from the start. People who could least afford your carbon tax living by candle light, cooking by fire burning their houses down while in them. No, YOUR belief on what is better future is far from reality of the fact you want to pick and choose who dies. For that matter that also comes down to another policy Greens tried to introduce into parliament of how Hospitals and Doctors should allocate resources. In other words legislating WHO should live and die.

Greens need to grow up and realise that all these policies they claim to support effect far more than what they think. You want sustainable ways for the future, STOP TRYING TO COPY THE REST OF THE WORLD.

Yes that would be great, that simple minded, narrow visioned and obviously rote educated will finally be left to the rest of the world. Those that like to look to were to lay blame rather then look to what will help in the future. Those that would rather look to the rest of the world for answers and not to themselves. Those that attempt to deceive people to think they are important. Yes, I do wish for that, BUT no I will not delude myself that single focused parties have any idea on what is best for the future.

Assange is an idiot and no whistle blower. He survives like a parasite on the efforts of others. Bradley while being treasonous to his own nation (due only to the fact of his position) I could grant you, Snowden... OK. BUT what is needed is better from the world, really there should be no need for whistle blowers. However, the world is not a better place because you know what these people have done.

You see, this is why your comment is bias. You want to complain about Coalition not reporting everything to you and the media (who you despise so much) and proclaim the ALP better party. BUT you also ignore the fact that much of you are complaining about was carried out by the ALP (and I am sure) with the GREENS knowledge. You put the one above the other and ignore the fact that the one you put above is just as bad as the other...

Of course, Already pointed out as to why.

 

Gary doesn't mind insulting people, it is his forte. If you don't say what he wants to hear, get ready for a torrent of abuse. It makes ALL his comments redundant, you would think he realizes that, no, he like CD just has a one eyed approach to everything. He has never made a reasonable attempt to debate my posts, just abuse. Even though I have "liked" many of his posts he doesn't seem to have the fortitude to realsise he is not always right. Pity he seemed intelligent for a Liberal supporter.

Calling you a moron is a lot harsher than anything he has said to me, you must be "on the money"

His true colours are showing through the puritan white he hides behind.

 

reflecting on the poster again??? Made an attempt to debate your posts??? Sorry when you post crap you definitely cannot substantiate and clearly show you have a true disrespect for the truth there is not much to debate. After your entire tirade over the rape allegations... As for abusing you, I give what I get and I believe I explained to you that I treat you with same condescension as you treat others, wouldn't that be right??? The fact you want to place this in party nature is demonstrative to your lack of understanding.

Funny, they must be right... in your opinion. Interesting that this would show clear lack of understanding of what was being discussed. Apparently you believe Hitler was elected and the next day marched on Poland, set up concentration camps and basically set out to kill millions of people. Yes, somebody who thought history was like that is a moron. IS that what you believe??? OR are you simply being obtuse???

If you think they are my true colours, so be it. Fact is you have no idea what I am and what I believe so frankly your entire comment is as relevant as a flee attacking a brick (oh I had already decide that)

 

I am happy for you.

 

Obviously not, No witty retort??? Nothing to refute??? I am wondering of you are not TV now.

 

I cannot stand how the Libs do not crucify the ALP when they get given the chance, they are too soft and kind, trying to act like adults or something when by contrast the ALP are like a factory of hate and smear pushing out press releases for the media to post 24/7 as if it was a war. That is the only bad thing about being on the political right, that its an unfair fight because the left play dirty.

.... yet the Lib's keep standing their ground and just pushing instead of shoving. aaarrr frustrating.

The ALP is so incompetant they could be slaughtered if the Lib's were half as ruthless. They should step it up and shove it down the media's throat about this Indonesia spy thing, and dump it right on the ALP who were in office at the time.... instead they take the dirt from the media for those scumbags who try so hard to bring them down (ALP).

Then we have to put up with the stupid media just reading out ALP and union press releases as 'news', and then the dumbarse cheerleaders on FB and places like here who puppet the same one eyed BS. Lie down with dogs (ALP) and I'm clearly getting fleas....

 

Omg, this thread is about Abbott crucifying Labor when he got a chance,on international television. Lol

 

Welcome to the party, that's your subjective bias talking, and half my point. The media are so sensitized by their political left bias that a few words against the ALP are portrayed as 'crucifying' and the Liberals are as a result left sitting the corner not willing to stand up and throw the easy punches when they get the chance. What they said on international television was mundane truth and sending a simple message that new government wanted to engage and fix the mistakes of the ALP on foreign policy and engagement.

In the meantime the ALP are so busy throwing mud and trying to slice the throat of the Liberals (or each other) that they often invent stuff out of thin air and the media runs it. The death of journalism in Australia, proudly presented by the political left and its minions, now undermining the political right. Next thing the Liberals will follow the ALP and devolve into a US style election system.