Part 10 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Part 10 is a continuation of Post your tough questions pertaining to God/Jesus/Holy Bible and I will do my best to clarify and make sense of it to those who are unaware...I still have questions unanswered in Part 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 & 9.

Also I might answer questions that are on other members threads and so this will keep me real busy with the many questions that I will answer from my point of view/perspective keeping in line with Scripture.

I don't want my intentions to come across as converting you or whatever lol... but rather clear up things etc... so ask away.

 

Why does Christianity consider itself the only 'true' religion when it is pretty much nothing more than an amalgamation of previous pagan beliefs?

 

Quote Originally Posted by Incorporeal View Post
Good! Now prove it is 'true'. Show your "PROOF".
Show my evidence, you mean? We already have come to the conclusion that you aren't swayed by any formal argumentation like most people living in reality.

I'll be providing evidence that the 666 (or 616) number, as well as the mark of the beast, likely is describing Nero and the currency used the Roman Empire, respectively.

The Greek version of Nero transliterates to נרון קסר, or Resh Samekh Qoph Nun Vav Resh Nun. This yields a numerical sum of 666 in Hebrew. The Latin version of Nero transliterates to נרו קסר, or Resh Samkh Qoph Vav Resh Nun. This sums up to 616 in Hebrew.

The word that translates to "mark" in Greek is χάραγμα, which also simply means coin. Considering that Roman coins at the time bore images of Roman emperors, many Christians refused to use these because they considered them idolatrous images.

This fits in perfectly well with Revelation which was written around the time of Nero's reign, which saw an increase in Christian persecution. Not to mention that there was also a rumor spreading around after Nero died that he was going to resurrect one day and come after Christians.
"The real owners are the big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions. Forget the politicians,


Wow, you took the words right off my keyboard. TY.

 

While science is most likely your god and science does not prove anything, then there certainly is no obligation on us non-scientist Theists to prove anything. Because science does not prove anything, and science is the great emancipating teacher of the non-theists, any "proof" I would submit would be rejected and ridiculed ... so why bother.

 

Has god spoken directly to anyone reading this? (By directly I mean as in you directly heard a voice speak to you with your ears)

 

Science is no ones GOD.

Science is a METHOD that is an end to a means.

Science simply allows us to determine the hows and the whys.

Religion is about Faith.

The two are separate and do not necessarily conflict with the exception of detailed specific scientific impossibilities such as are detailed in the Old Testament.

Thus most large groups of Organized Religion such as the Roman Catholics and many Protestant Sects acknowledge certain proven scientific realities like Evolution and Geology and Cosmology.

AboveAlpha

 

it's your fundies who get all clenched in the sphincter over science.

except when they need life-saving or cosmetic surgery.

 

That highlighted text says it all.

The blue text does not point out the fact that most of those assemblies you have mentioned are married to the Secular state by virtue of those churches agreeing to a 501c3 exemption. So that piece means nothing but sure does have a bad smell to it.

Your opening line also is one of those claims that you cannot prove.

 

I worship no God.

It doesn't prove anything to you, and you have refused to explain why it isn't a sufficient methodology for you beyond saying that it isn't sufficient.

How in the world does that follow?

Theists, and theologians, use science, and logic, all the time to prove their claims. Perhaps you should stop making generalizing statements.

 

Incorrect.

Although I am sure their are warped people out there who might worship science much in the way some of faith worship an unproven to exist entity....I can PROVE that SCIENCE IS NO ONES GOD.

That does not mean they don't believe it is their GOD.

Much in the same way I can PROVE THAT YOU CAN'T FIND TWO OF EVERY SPECIES AND GET THEM ON A BOAT TO RIDE OUT A WORLD WIDE FLOOD THAT NEVER HAPPENED.

Still...even though I can definitively prove this never happened and is an impossibility....some people still believe it.

AboveAlpha

 

That is debatable due to the subjective nature of the claim you make above.

Alright.. It is insufficient because it does not meet the standards required in the rules established in the 10 Commandments. Those rules are the ones that are being used as a guide in analyzing your claims and the claims of others. Now is that better?

What is good for the goose is good for the gander. That is how it follows. If science cannot or does not prove anything, then why should theists who operate on a different set of rules be obligated to prove anything?

Only because they have not figured out yet that they are not obligated to use such secular methods when such methods are employed against the religion which they practice. If only they would practice what they preach. BTW: It would have been more appropriate to say "Some theists...." as opposed to lumping them all in the same category.

 

Alright... I like this: Go ahead and show the "PROOF" that will compel my mind to accept what you say or present as "true".

What don't mean they don't believe it is their GOD?

When did I ever say that I could?

"definitively prove"? That will definitely fall short of the "PROOF" requirement.

 

I never said you said anything.

Since Science is a METHOD that unto itself is proof that it is in FACT no ones GOD.

Any yes....I can PROVE with 100% certainty that a world wide flood has never occurred as well as it is mathematically impossible to collect a male and female of each land species and place them on a boat even if we had 10,000 years to do so.

AboveAlpha

 

How do you explain the one-to-one correspondence between the Old Testament story about Elijah and what Jesus experienced/accomplished 800 years later?


1) Both Elijah and Christ raised the dead:

1 Kings 17:22 And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.

John 12:1 Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where .Lazarus was, which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead.

2) Both Elijah, who never dies, and Christ were immortal:
2 Kings 2:1 And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal

John 20:25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the LORD. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.

3) Both Elijah and Christ. ascended into Heaven before witnesses:

2 Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talkd, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. .
12..And Elisha saw it,.

Luke 24:51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven

4) Both Elijah and Christ troubled Israel:

1 Kings 18:17 And it came to pass, when Ahab saw Elijah that Ahab said unto him, Art thou he that troubleth Israel?

Matthew 2:3 When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born..

5) Both Elijah and Christ were threatened by the authorities with death:

1 Kings 19:14 And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: because the children of I.srael have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and .I. .even I only .am .left..; and they seek my life, to take it away

John 11:53 Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death

6) Both Elijah and Christ.... were hunted by the Jewish authorities:
1 Kings 19:14 And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away

John 7:25 Then said some of them of Jerusalem, Is not this he, whom they seek to kill?

7) Both Elijah and Christ.... hid in a cave/tomb:

1 Kings 19:9 And he came thither unto a cave, and lodged there; and, behold, the word of the LORD came to him, and he said unto him, What doest thou here, Elijah?

Matthew 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth...

Both Elijah and Christ pondered in the wilderness 40 days and forty nights:....

1 Kings 19:8 And he arose, and did eat and drink, and went in the strength of that meat forty days and forty nights unto Horeb the mount of God

Matthew 4:2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.

9) Both Elijah and Christ. walked on across the water
2 Kings 2:8 And Elijah took his mantle, and wrapped it together, and smote the waters, and they were divided hither and thither, so that they two went over on dry ground

Matthew 14:25 And in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went unto them, walking on the sea

10) Both Elijah and Christ let a person follow them across the water:

2 Kings 2:14.. And he took the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and smote the waters, and said, Where is the LORD God of Elijah? and when he also had smitten the waters, they parted hither and thither: and Elisha went over

Matthew 14:29 And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water to go to Jesus.

11) Both Elijah and Christ.... wrote only one thing, a letter, to people on Earth AFTER they had ascended:

2 Chronicles 21:12 And there came a writing to him from ..Elijah.. the prophet, saying, Thus saith the LORD God of David thy father, Because thou hast not walked in the ways of Jehoshaphat thy father, nor in the ways of Asa king of Judah,

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

12) Both Elijah and Christ appointed a successor, Elisha, by Elijah, and Peter, by Christ:

2 Kings 2:9.. And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And ..Elisha.. said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me

Matthew 16:18.. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this .rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

13) Both Elijah and Christ gave a successor the power to raise the dead:

2 Kings 8:5.. And it came to pass, as he was telling the king how he had restored a dead body to life, that, behold, the woman, whose son he had restored to life, cried to the king for her house and for her land. And Gehazi said, My lord, O king, this is the woman, and this is her son, whom ..Elisha.. restored to life.
Acts 9:40 But Peter put them all forth, and kneeled down, and ..prayed..; and turning him to the body said, Tabitha, arise. And she opened her eyes: and when she saw Peter, she sat up

14) Both Elijah and Christ gave a successor the power to heal:

2 Kings 5:10.. And Elisha sent a messenger unto him, saying, Go and wash in Jordan seven times, and thy flesh shall come again to thee, and thou shalt be clean

Acts 3:6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk

15) Both Elijah and Christ gave a successor a symbolic authority, the cloak to one, the keys to the other:
1 Kings 19:19.. So he departed thence, and found Elisha the son of Shaphat, who was plowing with twelve yoke of oxen before him, and he with the twelfth: and Elijah passed by him, and cast his mantle upon him.

Matthew 16:19.. And I will give unto thee the keys.of the kingdom.. of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven

16) Both Elijah and Christ. asked that the this "cup" be taken from them:

1Kings 19:4 .But he himself went a day's journey into the wilderness, and came and sat down under a juniper tree: and he requested for himself that he might die (because he was afraid of what was coming from Jezebel: [1Kings 19:3]), and said, "It is enough (they seek my life, to take it away: [1Kings 19:10]); now, O LORD, take away my life; for I am not better than my fathers."

Matthew 26:39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, (because he began to show grief and distress of mind and was deeply depressed: [Matt 26:37]), let this cup pass from me (It is enough: [1Kings 19:4]): nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

17) Both Elijah and Christ are said to have had miraculous births:

Jewish Encyclopedia:
Three different theories regarding Elijah's origin are presented in the Haggadah: Mention must be made of a statement which, though found only in the later cabalistic literature (Yal?u? Reubeni, Bere(*)(*)(*)(*), 9a, ed. Amsterdam), seems nevertheless to be very old (see Epiphanius, l.c.), and according to which Elijah was an angel in human form, so that he had neither parents nor offspring.
See also Melchizedek.

Matthew1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

1 Both Elijah and Christ destroyed pagan worshippers and priests. Elijah destroyed the priests of Baal; Christ, the Pantheon of Rome, 380AD:

IKi 18:40 And Elijah said unto them, Take the prophets of Baal; let not one of them escape. And they took them: and Elijah brought them down to the brook Kishon, and slew them there.

History: Universal Christianity in 380AD:
Revelation 20:4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands.
They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years (54AD -1054AD)

19) Both Elijah and Christ were promised faithfulness three times, Elisha in the former and Peter, in the latter.
2 Kings 2:2.. I will not leave thee. So they went down to Bethel
2 Kings 2:4.. I will not leave thee. So they came to Jericho
2 Kings 2:6.. I will not leave thee. And they two went on

John 21:17.. He saith unto him the third time,... "Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, "Lovest thou me?"

20) Both Elijah and Christ. condemned a Jezebel:

2 Kings 9:36 Wherefore they came again, and told him. And he said, This is the word of the LORD, which he spake by his servant Elijah the Tishbite, saying, In the portion of Jezreel shall dogs eat the flesh of Jezebel:

Rev 2:20 ..Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds..

21) Both Elijah and Christ re-dedicated the Israelite people to God by raising up a new altar or temple:

1 Ki 18:30.. And ..Elijah.. said unto all the people, Come near unto me. And all the people came near unto him. And he repaired the altar of the LORD that was broken down. And Elijah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, unto whom the word of the LORD came, saying, Israel shall be thy name:

John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up.

22) Both Elijah and Christ chose one man upon which to build his following:

2 Kings 2:15 And when the sons of the prophets which were to view at Jericho saw him, they said, The spirit of Elijah doth rest on Elisha. And they came to meet him, and bowed themselves to the ground before him

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and ..upon.. this ..rock.. I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

23) Both Elijah and Christ were subject of a three day 'search' for their presence:

2 Kings 2:1 And when they urged him till he was ashamed, he said, Send.
They sent therefore fifty men; and they sought three days, but found him not.

Luke 2:46 And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions.

 

Too bad you're unable or unwilling to debate to a conclusion other than you touting that you don't find an argument sufficient.

Not really, since the Ten Commandments don't include standards about debate protocol or what methodologies can be used in debates.

Are you suggesting that not being able to prove something, not that I agree that science can't prove anything, is a good thing?

How would you know that they haven't figured it out? Maybe they find the methods useful.

What do they preach?

 

Sorry but your statement, that Christianity is pretty much nothing more that an amalgamation of previous pagan beliefs is utterly false.

There is really no basis for this idea, many have been misled by this concept. This concept has been discarded by serious scholars for many years and is only kept alive by popular anti-Christian writers.

If anything other mystery religions may have borrowed their stories from Christianity. It is a futile attempt made by critics of the Christian faith to discredit the faith.

Don't get fooled by this! It is the devil's work to keep the many blinded from the truth!

You might say, well if it's the devil's work to keep me blinded then it's not my fault.

No, it's still your fault, in the end it was entirely your decision to choose the wrong path being misled by the anti-Christian writers doing the devil's work. There is another path you could choose, and you have been made aware of it, and so again in the end if you choose the wrong path, there is absolutely no one else but yourself the blame should be on.

If you choose to be separated from God for all eternity, it will be done. If you choose to spend eternity with God, it will be done.

Jesus said, "You can enter God's Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way. But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it."---Matthew 7:13-14 NLT

 

the devil, you say?

is this the same guy who decided god was utter bas.****, so decided to relinquish his membership?

 

Exactly!...well said my friend!

 

The inference is there:
" I can PROVE THAT YOU CAN'T FIND TWO OF EVERY SPECIES AND GET THEM ON A BOAT TO RIDE OUT A WORLD WIDE FLOOD THAT NEVER HAPPENED."

Science is an abstract, a philosophy. A fence post can be a god. It is not the object that makes the object a god, it is the manner in which the object is viewed by a person which makes it a god.

I am still waiting. Where is the "PROOF" that will compel my mind to accept what you say or present as "true"?

 

MR, are you suggesting there's something magical about the christ inventors borrowing the elijah legends?

 

defiantly, I would also add to that to not try to impose their views onto others via legislation as well.

 

Interesting, perhaps you would care to put forward these "serious scholars" and their evidence of the falsehood, or is this just your opinion.

 

I think that was GfP question to you, why do you bother?

 

I seriously doubt he'll answer that. He's been avoiding my questions, and particularly my posts in general.

 

Given Mitt is a Bible Literalist, my question is basic...


Mitt, if one tiny thing in the Bible was proven demonstrably false, to even your satisfaction....would that raise the possibility that there were other false things in it?

I know you don't believe that there IS even the tiniest error in the Bible....but if there was one, even a small one.....would other parts of the book become open to doubt?