MOD ALERT ~ people want God

The presupposition is made that religion in any form defies all logic and reason...for the sake of argument, I'll concede to that part of the debate.

Only atheism, the lack of the belief in a deity, utilizes logic and reason. Point conceded.

Atheism's trademark is logic and reason.

The absurdity of this sort of measuring stick of reality is the elevation of what our species dictates as what is logical and reasonable. The presumption is, out of the chaos of something that simply "is," our observable Universe, we are defining it by man-made constructs ultimately as vacuous as the religion you claim lacks logic and reason.

I'll go further...if the Universe just "is," something instead of nothing, no rhyme or reason, just a mechanical process, like the gears on a bicycle that through chaos and random happenstance evolved our species..a species capable of what we define as "logic" and "reason." Why should logic and reason be elevated at all? It's just another cog in the gear of a mechanical process...no more...and no less. Logic and reason is illusory, does it exist outside of the mind that comprehends what it is?

It is absurd to think the Universe itself follows a logical and reasonable path outside of the human mind.

Our mind is what defines the aspects of the Universe which follow a logical and reasonable path..the Universe itself simply exists with no ulterior motive, definition or purpose.

I'm not so much as being an apologist for the possibility of a deity, as so much as bringing logic and reason to it's ultimate place...and that is...something is only as logical and reasonable as how the human mind defines it to be...it does not exist independently of this definition.

If indeed theism is a failure in logic and reason...a by-product of the human condition which seeks meaning to suffering...atheism is also, ultimately just as frail an attempt to define anything...when the host dies....logic and reason die along with it. Logic and reason is merely another by-product of the human condition which seeks to define and give purpose to what the mind perceives through observation, filtered by our senses.

If the atheist claims, logic and reason exists independent of the human mind, outside of the observational gaze of a consciousness, then of course this lends credence to defining a deity as possessing the traits of logic and reason...God being defined as ultimate Truth.

If logic and reason are merely human constructs than Truth itself is a meaningless term...as there is no underlying Truth to anything, as truth itself wold be a human construct. Arguing whether there is or isn't a God would not lead one towards the concept of Truth...as Truth does not exist independent of the definer of what Truth is.

We observe a Universe and define it as such solely based on what the human mind has the ability to observe.

Perhaps any definition of Truth should therefore have an asterisk.

From what the human mind is capable of knowing, of defining through logic and reason, the concept of a deity does not exist.

This is not the same as saying, a deity does not exist, with the assertion made that we know, what it is that is beyond the human mind's ability to know.

We simply don't know, using strictly logic and reason to define truth, as opposed to a priori knowledge.

 

That's why I am an Agnostic.

One thing I am certain of....any supposed GOD will not exist as described by an man made religious concept.

IF...a GOD exists and that is a BIG IF....it would most likely exist in a very different relative state than we could imagine.

AboveAlpha

 

I re-read my post, and it's crap...I'm tired and most it is word salad..conciseness is what is required and I failed that.

I'll bow out of the thread after this

There are inherent limits to logic that can't be resolved.
I define God as Truth..a Truth that exists independent of our frail and finite vessels..our bodies, our organs, including of course our brains.

I do not believe the sole path to seeking Truth...to seeking God, is logic and reason, at least how we define it.

God is of course logical and reasonable..but at a level beyond which can be comprehended.

God is therefore, that which cannot be defined.
Thomas Aquinas.

 

The need for God in society is apparent. As intellectuals, we need to understand that at the opposite end of the intellectual spectrum lay the retards. Now I do not hold anything against these people. However it seems to me that they do not understand the benefits of living a moral life, without the candy coated reward at the end of the rainbow.

For some God is an enforcer of morality, for others God may offer physical benefits to areas of the body influenced by the outer portions of the brain. I think it is best to understand that God is a tool. And it is the hand that wields that tool that makes it a good or destructive force.

Empathy and morality are evolutionary advantages. Unfortunately so are sociopathy and rape.

 

Likewise.

 

Jesus is the role model. That renders your claim irrelevant for those under Grace. I love it how the Bible bashers run to the OT and never reference to NT. How CONvenient.

- - - Updated - - -

Everyone has free will. How does that negate what God knows? No one stops anyone from doing as they please.

- - - Updated - - -

Wrong. Try again.

 

Here goes another one. You and Hastings should share the Xanax. But thanks for making my point.

- - - Updated - - -

One more time............

Originally Posted by iamkurtz View Post

Has it ever occurred to anyone that God created science?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't be afraid to answer it.

 

It is incredible the rage exhibited by those who claim God does not exist. The CAPS, profanity, and copious amounts of bandwidth expended to fight against what they call a lie and a fable. As I have said many times, normal people avoid railing against what they deem folly/silly/mythical/fables. These posters think God akin to Santa Claus. But I'd wager that they wouldn't touch a thread about Santa. They would think it to be childish. These posters have a problem of conscience IMO. Why else would the thought of a supreme deity make them so unhinged?

 

Perhaps because bible-babblers want everyone to assume god as a null-hypothesis because it removes the burden of proof?

 

again, it's not the parts picked that mater, the question is why would God put those evil things he has done in the bible anyways, is your God both good and evil?

Gods don't die, they could though pretend too

.

 

Wrong. Context is important in any discussion unless you like to cherry pick.

 

what context is it ok to order people killed because they are picking up sticks on the weekend?

 

All of it.

 

so you think your God is both good and Evil.. got it

 

You just can't help your self can you. More insults. It's to the point I expect nothing else from you. And by the way you have yet to make a point . The only thing you have made are accusations.

It's obvious to everyone here but you that the anger issues lie within you.

As you have pointed out god doesn't matter as he is not going to send anyone to hell for not believing in him.

Fear is what you live in but I don't know why. If gods not going to send you to hell why are you so scared of him?

 

No insult. You're on the brink. It's obvious.

I appreciate you trying to put words in my mouth but I'll pass. Your attempt to do so is yet another symptom of your impending meltdown.

I have no fear. I'm not the poster maniacally attacking someone else's belief system. You and your buddies are. I give you five more posts until you go DEFCON 1. Hang in there.

- - - Updated - - -

Satan is evil. People are evil. God is good. People who put words into the mouths of others are evil...............and desperate.

 

I'm not the one who believes in fairy tales it's you who is on the brink! But I don't know why your scared god won" send you to hell lighten up!

Satan doesn't exist. People such as your self are evil I agree. There is no god .. well at least not the one you worship!

This clearly defines you and I agree!

 

I wonder if we have here yet another of those sad little people who believe to be a christian is to be persecuted, and, since they are not, thus losing some of t hose pennies in heaven... they set out to provoke others to persecute them.

Now I wish I could give Brother Bill his great thrill
I would set him in chains at the top of the hill
Then send out for some pillars and Cecil B. DeMille
He could die happily ever after.

-Zimmerman

 

Posting a partial quote is cherry picking out of context...you get a score of 2

 

So you attack people who believe in 'fairytales'? Okee dokee. How old are you?

We disagree. Satan exists. You prove that.

Your rage defines you. You're welcome.

 

He's very angry that's for sure.

And yes I do agree with you he seems to be the of the type that if you don't bash him he will force you to to complete his self fulfilling prophecy. I know I shouldn't help him attain his self delusional goals but he's just too darn

funny. Watching his anger issues manifest in his " poor persecuted christian " routine is just hilarious to me!

 

It is remarkable how utterly un -selfaware some people are.

 

You are the one attacking. I'm too busy laughing to attack. I'm barely able to keep up with your fantasy accusations.

Do you read what you post? Yes I agree we disagree ... there we both proved it!! LOL

My rage? Dude I'm the one laughing it's you who are raging!!! LOL

 

am not! Am not!

 

I'm not sure the term shouldn't be self deluded!! I know I should let him go but you just can't get quality entertainment like this anywhere else!

- - - Updated - - -

Oh .. Well now that you've cleared that up I'll just let it go ... never mind!