What should be the penalty for committing voter fraud? What should we do to those casting a ballot using the ID of a dead citizen or voting multiple times?
Public Horsewhipping comes to mind, but that won't happen. Taking away their right to vote would be acceptable.
The DNC candidate should be automatically removed from office and replaced with his opponent or an alternate republican. after it happens a few times, they will disengage in the practice and support ID laws.
Since voter fraud is very rare and has not impacted elections, there is no rational reason to alter the existing penalties: The criminal penalty for fraudulently voting when not legally qualified or for voting more than once when qualified is a fine of $300 to $500, one to two years in prison, and disenfranchisement. Anyone who votes or attempts to vote by assuming the name of another is subject to a fine of $500, one year in prison, and disenfranchisement (CGS § 9-360). Other types of fraudulent voting violations carry stiffer penalties. Voting in violation of absentee ballot laws is punishable by a fine of up to $5,000, up to five years in prison, or both (CGS §9-359). The same penalty applies to anyone who votes or refuses to vote in consideration of anything of value (CGS §§ 9-333x and 9-333y)). With respect to the latter offense, the commission can also (1) impose a civil penalty of $2,000 per offense or twice the amount of any improper payment or contribution, whichever is greater; (2) issue an order for the recipient to return the item of value; (3) issue an order revoking the intentional violators' eligibility to be appointed or serve as an election, primary, or referendum official or unofficial checker or in any capacity at the polls (CGS § 9-7b(2) and (3)). http://www.cga.ct.gov/2004/rpt/2004-R-0865.htm
well you're half right. The current laws are strict enough and don't require harsher penalties, but it's not necessarily 'rare.' The rationale applied by yourself and other liberals is that the have only been x convictions of voter fraud over y years, where x is a low number and y is a long time. The problem, of course, is the assumption that that's it. It's like saying that if there were half a million people arrested for selling drugs last year, then there were only half a million drug sales last year. Not even going to say that it's flawed logic. The logic isn't even there.
The examples he used were Republicans. We Dems have no problems with voter ID laws, it is how the GOP wants to restrict voting as a whole that we have a problem with. A party that has lost the WH twice now all of sudden wants the rules changed. Ask a child what they think about changing the rules to a boardgame after they won. Ask a professional sports team about changing the rules after they won. I will take the voter issue seriously when the GOP actually wins a national election and isn't just coming off as sour grapes for losing. My advice lose the voter narrative and appeal to moderate Americans.
There are no crimes where the conviction rate can be assumed to be 100% and reflect the precise number of times they were perpetrated and idle speculation is always possible, but pretending that there have been sufficient numbers of undetected bogus voters to alter election outcomes is batty. With no evidence of such vast, coordinated conspiracies, additional red tape and bureaucracy is frivolous - especially when flashing an easily-faked picture ID at a poll nanny is supposed to be the solution to the problem that can't be shown to exist. If you want to pervert the results of any election, tampering with absentee ballots or hacking into the computerized tabulation is far more viable. As I had noted, organising sufficient numbers of criminals willing to risk fine and imprisonment to each cast a phony vote is the equivalent of trying to get rich by counterfeiting pennies - except that the latter scheme is far more likely to be kept secret.
It's just another transparent attempt at voter suppression, but they like to think they're fooling someone. The notion of legions of illegal voters reminds me of the story of the old biddy who stopped watching television after "The Invisible Man' movie aired. Since he could avoid detection by disrobing, she couldn't ever again watch any show without suspecting there were countless numbers of horrible nudies romping about unseen. .
A fair vote is fundamental to our way of life and anyone trying to subvert that should go to prison for a mandatory 5 years. That would put a stop to this crap right now.
^_- come on, really? if that was the case, then you wouldn't have Dems trying to block voter ID laws that had extensive measures to ensure everyone without an ID was given proper time and more assistance than needed to get an ID.
can you post without putting up a straw man? really, the last five posts i've seen of yours were blatant, ridiculous straw men.
When you cannot refute pertinent and valid points, pretending that they are "straw men" is a feeble excuse.
Depends on the fraud. What was done in Florida in 2000 (disenfranchising African American voters with partial name matching) should be severely punished. Probably with 20+ year prison terms. Voting multiple times or using a dead person's ID? Has that ever actually happened? It's definitely prison term worthy. At least 1 year in federal prison per offense. Or in this case, per voting attempt. The 2004 election frauds with attempting to prevent absentee ballots, the voting machine distribution, and possibly voting machine fraud should be punished the same as the 2000 election fraud. The difference is one is small time petty theft style, the other is systemic, big time crime.
There was more fraud in 2000 from the MSM when they declared Gore the winner early before the polls in the Panhandle which is dominantly Republican closed. I doubt many blacks were disenfranchised. If someone didn't register their name correctly, they deserved to be rejected. The democrats had been the ones who made the rules for that election as I recall. Their rules caused more disenfranchisement with overseas military which voted strong for Republicans. Your playing the race card makes me wonder about your intelligence.
The rational applied by Liberals is that voter fraud has been thoroughly investigated, we know it's rare because of the real world data that has been gathered. The only people who "suspect it may be widespread" are ignorant of the data, and have been mislead purposely. Were you fooled into thinking that voter fraud may be widespread?
i've yet to see one liberal cite any thorough investigation. The most thorough i've seen is citing a news source that cites the number of convictions, like I've already said. Not surprised you don't put up a link to a 'thorough investigation' yourself.
You have seen it, you just ignore it, because you don't want to believe it..... The Bush Justice Department made voter fraud a priority, 100 cases over 8 years, and they spent millions pursuing it. There is a record of every vote, you can check to see who voted, you can call them and interview them. There are no missing voters, get over it...
Who votes without registering? And isn't it possible to call people and ask if they really voted? Do you think that if you called 10,000 people who are listed as voting, and all 10,000 said "yes, they really voted", it was because you picked the wrong 10,000 people? The Justice Department looked for it for years, you know what they found, about a hundred people with second homes in different states registering in both states, including Ann Coulter. Ask yourself, if there really was voter fraud, wouldn't someone have found it? Given the effort spent looking for it, and the fact that the name and address of every one who votes is available to investigators? Look in the mirror, you ain't got crap, in this case, absence of evidence IS evidence of absence...
^_- well, first this really doesn't have jack to do with what we're talking about, this is nearly an off-topic rant. Second, this just strikes me of blackadder. Baldrick: I too have a cunning plan to catch the spy, sir. Blackadder: do you Baldrick, do you... Baldrick: you go around the hospital and ask everyone "are you a German spy?" Blackadder: yes, I must say Baldrick I appreciate your involvement on the creative side- Baldrick: if it was me I'd own up! Blackadder: yes of course you would, but sadly the enemy had not added to the German Army entrance form: must have intellectual capacity of a boiled potato. about 13:30 [video=dailymotion;xzpp00]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xzpp00_blackadder-season-04-episode-05-general-hospital_shortfilms[/video] "The rational applied by Liberals is that voter fraud has been thoroughly investigated, we know it's rare because of the real world data that has been gathered." You're the one making silly claims you can't back up. I've already shown why your logic is faulty.
Again, are you aware that the Bush Justice Department made voter fraud a priority, and found only 100 cases in 8 years? And that most of that was people with vacation homes in two states? Are you aware of that?
Poor analogies used to justify not needing an ID to vote. First you are for it then against it. John Kerry comes to mind.
mmmm. you know, I hate to be that guy, but normally you say 'again' when you're saying something you've already said. yeah, you're good at repeating yourself, but you did boast pretty loudly of hard facts - and have no link, no study, etc. That's what I've been giving you crap for. It's like when grade-schoolers say I know what an x is... I just don't feel like telling you.
You know this debate has been going on for some time, and you haven't presented a single fact or a single link. You just cling to this "How can you know if you don't have Voter ID laws" thing, that really has been debunked about a couple of hundred times IN THIS FORUM. I have linked to all kinds of data, how many times do I have to link to the data, before you believe it, or rather you'll dismiss it, because it comes from a university, and all universities are leftist, or it comes from the government, and you don't believe the government. But here it is http://www.brennancenter.org/issues/voter-fraud
