china was a very backward counntry in history for 2000 years

A) china was enslaved for 2000 years.

1) chinese were the lowest class in mongol, manchu, xianbei, Khitan, Jurchen empires.
genghis khan's law, killing a chinese = killing a donkey,
sorry to mention this
mongols, manchs, xianbei killed over 50% of chinese. (in three different times)

2)jurchen took two chinese kings, and forced them walk naked on the streets.
chinese kings had to call the kings of jurchen as uncle for about 100 years.

Men of chinese royal family were sold into slavery in exchange for horses with a ratio of ten men for one horse.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jingkang_Incident

3) chinese king had to call the Khan of Khitan as father, grandfather
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Later_Jin_Dynasty

4)other two chinese kings of chinese were also taken by foreigners as slaves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Huai_of_Jin


5) manchus ruled china for 300 years till 1911.
the population rate was 100,000,000 chinese VS1.000.000 manchus.


6)then japan ruled 2/3 of china since 1937-1945( including the chinese captial), and killed over 30,000,000 chinese.

Russia and USA saved china , Otherwise china should ruled by japan now.



B) china was very poor

1) In the past 2000 years.
There were more than 110 great starvation in china, people even had to eat people to stay alive.

2) In 1959-1961. . there are 30,000,000 chinese died in starvation.
Great Chinese Famine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

3) china declares china can feed itself, but china had to import a lot of grains from
north America every year.



4) in 1960's, chinese defence minister Peng Dehui said many chinese had no pants to wear.


5) in chinese ming empire - general Lu Xiangsheng said that, many chinese soldier had no pants to wear.


6)in WWII, chinese soldiers still wear grass shoes.
http://img.haokanbu.com/img/blog/684f8084eec24adbae0d1f8f3e7cfa54.jpeg



C) china was far behind Europe in history.

1) Europe and Near East entered iron age at least 600 years earlier than china.

china entered machine age later than Europe.
china entered information age later than Europe.


2) when European and middle east people built stone houses, chinese king lived in a mud palace.
Egypt built Pyramids. Great Pyramid of Giza 4500 years ago.
Erlitou, The capital of china(2100 BC – 1600 BC) was built by mud.


3)-- -- Middle east invented writing 5000 years ago.
The oldest chinese oracle bones is about 3500 years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_bone

4) since china invented writing only about 3500 years ago,
so the so-called 5000 years chinese civilization is a completely joke.

5) since china entered Iron age 600 years later than Europe and Near East,
so china has a much shorter civilization.
At the time, European used iron tools, chinese used primitive tools.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Age

5) china invented 0 machines and proposed almost 0 formulas .
car, train, phone, radio, computer, mobile, TV, aircraft, spaceship, Typewriter, fridge, fax machine, copy machine, scanner, ATM, Vending machine, washing machine, helicopter, ........... tank, submarine, robot. - Nothing is from china.


6) Professor Joseph Needham proved china invented paper, gun powder,
printing, the magnetic compass.

Needham has been criticized for his strong inclination to exaggerate Chinese technological achievements.

Example, gunpowder
gunpowder was invented by Greek - Greek fire, its chief ingredient was saltpeter, (and Sulfur), making it an early form of gunpowder.

Glass was invented 5000 years ago.
it was before chinese history

The world did not to wait for china to invent gunpowder.


D) china was very backward


Till the early 1900's, if chinese against the chinese ruling class, the punishment were:

1) killing all relatives of the person, and all relatives of the
relatives of the person, and all relatives of the relatives of the
relatives of the person .

Nine familial exterminations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


2) And, they would be chopped into at least 1000 pieces.

Slow slicing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


E) without the west influence, china will never enter the computer age.

1) Chinese never invented alphabet, chinese use Hieroglyphs.

so china is not able to invent a chinese keyboard.
Then chinese are not able to invent a computer.

2) china never invent punctuation,
The first chinesse book to be printed with punctuation was the History of Chinese Philosophy by Hu Shi.(1891-1962)

 

since china invented writing only about 3500 years ago,
so the so-called 5000 years chinese civilization is a completely joke.

since china entered Iron age 600 years later than Europe and Near East,
so china has a much shorter civilization.
At the time, European used iron tools, chinese used primitive tools.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Age

 

since china invented writing only about 3500 years ago,
so the so-called 5000 years chinese civilization is a completely joke.

 

And just what do you hope to gain by this thread?

An argument?

Rebuttals?

All I read is an extended effort to belittle, not just a nation, but an entire culture. Does it make you feel good?

 

Yeah thats about all I am taking away from it. The Chinese had some good times, and definitely some bad. I defy anyone to show a culture with a similar extended history not going through the same thing. Britain went from being not much short of an open sewer in the 1400s to building the largest physical empire by the 1800s. Because things were not the best in the 1400s it does nothing to devalue what they went on to do in the subsequent years.

 

I am sorry, but you are completely wrong.

China was the first country to use Fiat money.

the first country to have a printing press in 228 B.C. It had 3600 characters on it.

China invented gunpowder, the compass, and other inventions.

Chinese were also the first polygamist, ie women with multiple husbands.

And Chinese history, like Japanese and Korean history, shows a civilized society, with complex political structures and societal norms.

 

China had metal smithing two thousand years ago that wasn't be equaled in the west until until the industrtial ages. And seriously? Chinese were lower class citizens after Mongol conquests? Why would you point that out? If nothing else that is a big mistake on the part of the Mongols. They could have made themselves a legitimate dynasty accepted by Chinese, like Qing almost was, and possibly established an intercontinental empire welded together by Song and Persian bureaucracy and commerce. But they foolishly chose genocide and chose to maintain nomadism.

 

The Mongols that conquered China was during the Soong Dynasty and eventually the Monguls were called the Yuan Dynasty. Then came the Ming Dynasty that overthrew the Yuan dynasty. And the rest is history.

 

Hey thanks for the chance to argue about history!
Note that i am not well versed in Chinese history so i will appreciate if you take time to correct me .

Mongols also killed 15m Indians, ~90% of Persians ,burnt Moscow at least twice etc .
Until chain mail and crossbows losing the the Mongols was pretty much standard .

Persuasion and assimilation were unknown to the nomads ,big big mistake.

This is because nomads cared only about horses , slaves are important when your economy is based in manual labor , when it is based on looting and extortion workers are useless .

Not related to the topic but some of the Khitans were Nestorian christians and for this they became the base for (early) Prester John's myth .
On topic again terrible PR

Taking kings as slaves was not new or innovative .

To give another parameter without the Woku (who by the way not only had Tsushima Japanese but also Chinese) Joseon would probably be able to kick Jurchen rear and give Chinese a chance to fight back , historical events always rely in combination of factors.

Highly unlikely .

Only 110? lucky bastards ! oh and cannibalism was widely common in Europe

Because Mao was an idiot "kill the birds ! kill the birds! he said" and crops were eaten by insects , what a bummer !

They can run agricultural programs like Brazil did and cover all their needs in foodstuffs in less than 20 years .
Also keep in mind that their fascist state favors the industrial use of water over agrarian because it brings much more profit , modern day Chinese emperors are the same like the ancient ones and don't care at all about the common folk.

Half a century ago ... before WW1 the US had an army as big as Romania's .

Very easy to explain why , Europe was always diverse , densely populated ( it still is if you don't count the wild parts like Russia & Scandinavia) and in conduct with many other civilizations . It is a chain : there wouldn't be Egyptians without Sumerians & Akkadians , there wouldn't be Phoenicians without Egyptians , no Greeks without Phoenicians, no Romans without the Greeks, no Franks without the Romans,no British without the Franks and so on ..oh and before i forget western Europe would still be Kongo like if Heraklios wasn't such a moron to let muslims win.
In comparison China was Han , Han and Han in a big stagnated empire.

So? Songhai kings lived in mud palaces yet Songhai ,Oyo and the rest of the west African nations created civilizations brilliant enough to match Europeans and Mesoamericans . Furthermore i'd prefer to provide labor for a mud house rather than pilling stones to resemble genitalia for 100's of kilometers .

People invent things to cover their needs. The first European writing is Minoan linear , those guys were merchants and they had to keep lists and inventory . Olmecs had their own writing and so do Indians , why? because there was a need for it.
I can explain the role of writing in Egyptian society but i will need an hour of typing, let's just say that without "sacred texts" their civilization would not be what it was.

Chinese also made ******nawful stone tools , this is because they had bamboos .
Iron tools in the first European civilization were introduced during the Dorian invasion ( ancient dark ages) around 1100bc , i suggest you check your sources .

And this means what? my nation created tons of innovations the simply didn't survive the dark ages ... not even the odometer ! ancient Egyptians used light bulbs , Sumerians had batteries etc , it is kind of harsh to accuse a nation of inaction when historical events conspired against them

Printing was invented by Gutenberg , Chinese invented paper . Greek fire was made of naphtha and this is why Byzantine navy stop using it when the wells in Georgia was lost.

I guess you are not familiar with Vendettas in Sicily , Corsica and Crete .

In Europe this was called "quartering" ... you know like William Wallace

And without the nazis there wouldn't be space flight .
It is probable that they had invented something similar and it was lost , you know like Antikythera mechanism .

Because they didn't need punctuation like Europeans don't have special schools that teach calligraphy.

 

Wierd thread.

I am no fanboy of the Chinese, but there is no denying what they did accomplish.

Up until about 1400, there is little dispute that China was technologically superior in most ways to Western Europe- and technologically could have been what the West ended up being.

 

>>>MOD EDIT Flamebait Removed<<<

There are facts

1) since china invented writing only about 3500 years ago,
so the so-called 5000 years chinese civilization is a completely joke.

The oldest chinese oracle bones is about 3500 years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_bone.

Middle east invented writing 5000 years ago.


2) since china entered Iron age 600 years later than Europe and Near East,
so china has a much shorter civilization.
At the time, European used iron tools, chinese used primitive tools.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Age

 

I want to see fools fool themselves, they fool themselves to saving their faces, hahahah

1) Middle east invented writing 5000 years ago.
The oldest chinese oracle bones is about 3500 years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_bone

2) since china invented writing only about 3500 years ago,
so the so-called 5000 years chinese civilization is a completely joke.

3) since china entered Iron age 600 years later than Europe and Near East,
so china has a much shorter civilization.
At the time, European used iron tools, chinese used primitive tools.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Age

 

do you fool yourself to feel better?


1) since china invented writing only about 3500 years ago,
so the so-called 5000 years chinese civilization is a completely joke.

The oldest chinese oracle bones is about 3500 years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_bone

Middle east invented writing 5000 years ago.

2) since china entered Iron age 600 years later than Europe and Near East,
so china has a much shorter civilization.
At the time, European used iron tools, chinese used primitive tools.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Age

 

sir, you are right!
but china was never a power.

1) 300,000 mongols defeat 60 million chinese.
The mongol empire (Yuan Mongol Empire) which ruled china was very weak.
It lost all wars against japan, vietnam, burma, and java.
It only defeated china.

and chinese were the lowest class in all places ruled by mongols,
sorry to mention this.

2) The Batu mongol Empire was far stronger than the mongol empire (Yuan Mongol Empire) which ruled china.


2) manchus ruled china for 300 years till 1911.
the population rate was 100,000,000 chinese VS1.000.000 manchus.
again, chinese were the lowest class.
sorry to mention this.

 

I think I can explain the thread.

The OP is obviously a non-native speaker. East Asian if my experience is any guide. I would actually say Japanese. The thread is in response to recent confrontations over here between China and Japan. I was recently asked to be interviewed for a local japanese TV station about my opinion on the recent confrontations. I declined. I could be wrong about the Japanese but would take even odds. Would give 3 to 1 that OP is East Asian - no matter how much he/she denies it. This sort of stuff happens a lot on English websites/media over here.

Coincidentally, 2 days ago had a beer fueled discussion with 2 neighbor friends in which they were quite adamant that the Nanking Massacre had never happened. Not an uncommon view. All Chinese propaganda.

 

sorry, you are wrong.

1) china invented 0 machines and proposed almost 0 formulas .
car, train, phone, radio, computer, mobile, TV, aircraft, spaceship, Typewriter, fridge, fax machine, copy machine, scanner, ATM, Vending machine, washing machine, helicopter, ........... tank, submarine, robot. - Nothing is from china.


2) china did not invent paper, gun powder,printing, the magnetic compass.


Professor Joseph Needham proved china invented paper, gun powder,
printing, the magnetic compass.

Needham has been criticized for his strong inclination to exaggerate Chinese technological achievements.


example, gunpowder
gunpowder was invented by Greek - Greek fire, its chief ingredient was saltpeter, and sulfur, making it an early form of gunpowder.

glass was invented 5000 years ago.
it was before chinese history.
The world did not to wait for china to invent gunpowder.

3) china was very backward

They never had the concept "man and women are equal".

Till today, considering about baby girl abortion, and animal cruelty in china, china is still very backward.

 

And unfortunately, Japanese trolls can go on and on and on and on and on and on and on..............................they almost make ME sound interesting.

 

Burz, Frankly, what you said is extremely stupid.

in both mongol and Manchuria empire chinese were the lowest class.



both mongols and manchuria empire killed millions of chinese.


in history, if you were invaded, then you were slaves.




--------------
And as Fitzgerald further comments:
"According to the Chinese history not more than one hundredth part of the population survived, the countryside was covered with human bones, the cities left desolate. The north-west has never recovered from this disaster. Many of the border cities were never reoccupied, and have been invaded by the drifting sands of the [Taklimakan] desert. The irrigation works fell into decay for lack of attention, and the country reverted to steppe."
C.P Fitzgerald, "China - A Short Cultural History", Century Hutchinson, Melbourne, p 433.
---------------------





i

 

I can not agree that China was a backward country. But they have been held back because of the government they had. But notice since they signed the big trade agreement with the U.S. just 14 years ago, they have the second biggest economy in the world and is close to passing America in a few short years. We in turn have to depend on China to buy our bonds just so we can pay most of our bills. Just how do you think the reversal of two economies made such a shift in just a few short years?

If you go back to the 1960's, you will also see a big shift in the Japanese and American economy which began in one sided trade.

 

what you said are jokes.

1) 300,000 mongols defeat 60 million chinese.


2) The mongol empire (Yuan Mongol Empire) which ruled china was very weak.
It lost all wars against japan, vietnam, burma, and java.
It only defeated china.

3) The Batu mongol Empire was far stronger than the mongol empire (Yuan Mongol Empire) which ruled china.

4) Mongols ruled china for about 100 years,
then china gained its freedom.
later, mongols defeated china in TUMU battle and took the chinese king.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumu_Crisis

5)then 1 million manchus defeated 100 million chinese
manchus ruled china for about 300 year, till 1911.


6) then in WWII, japan invaded china, and took the chinese capital.

 

TO mutmekep,

Thanks for discussing history.

The history facts are:
1) china was very backward
2) china was very poor
3) china was very weak.

since your post is very long.
Now, I just discuss that why china was very weak.

because 1)china was enslaved for 2000 years.

2) 300,000 mongols defeat 60 million chinese.
The mongol empire (Yuan Mongol Empire) which ruled china was very weak.
It lost all wars against japan, vietnam, burma, and java.
It only defeated china.


3) The Batu mongol Empire was far stronger than the mongol empire (Yuan Mongol Empire) which ruled china.

4) Chinese were the lowest class in Mongols empire,
mongols wanted to kill all chinese.
sorry to mention this.

Yelu Ch&#8217;u-ts&#8217;ai saved chinese, he stopped mongols to kill all chinese.
Yelü Chucai - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

5) manchus ruled china for 300 years till 1911.
the population rate was 100,000,000 chinese VS1.000.000 manchus.

and manchuria Empire was very weak.
it lost all war against burma and vietnam,
it only defeated china.

Manchuria empire lost its entire task force which invaded burma,
Include its commander Ming Rui.

 

No, china was very backward,
if you can NOT prove the following facts are wrong, then what you said are wrong.

1) since china invented writing only about 3500 years ago,
so the so-called 5000 years chinese civilization is a completely joke.

2) since china entered Iron age 600 years later than Europe and Near East,
so china has a much shorter civilization.
At the time, European used iron tools, chinese used primitive tools.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Age


3)Professor Joseph Needham proved china invented paper, gun powder,
printing, the magnetic compass.

Needham has been criticized for his strong inclination to exaggerate Chinese technological achievements.


example, gunpowder
gunpowder was invented by Greek - Greek fire, its chief ingredient was saltpeter, and sulfur, making it an early form of gunpowder.

glass was invented 5000 years ago.
it was before chinese history.
The world did not to wait for china to invent gunpowder.

Even chinese calendar was invented by an European.
Johann Adam Schall von Bell
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Adam_Schall_von_Bell

4) china was far behind Greece

chinese started to learn solid geometry in chinese qing empire, about 400 years ago.
their text book was Euclid's Elements, which wrote by Euclid 2000 years ago.

 

sir, There are a lot of japanese propaganda, there are even more Chinese propaganda.[[



1) in chinese ming empire - general Lu Xiangsheng said that, many chinese soldier had no pants to wear.


2)in WWII, chinese soldiers still wear grass shoes.
http://img.haokanbu.com/img/blog/684f8084eec24adbae0d1f8f3e7cfa54.jpeg

3) in 1960's, chinese defence minister Peng Dehui said many chinese had no pants to wear.

4) china was never a rich country, or an advanced country


china never invented any punctuation,
The first chinesse book to be printed with punctuation was the History of Chinese Philosophy by Hu Shi.(1891-1962)

For 2000 years, china did not invent pen.
chinese used brush to write for 2000 years, till the early 20 century.
For 2000 years, chinese were not able to write whenever they want,
Google "Chinese Writing Sets".

 

Sir, china was very backward.

Till the early 1900's, if chinese against the ruling class, the punishment were:

1) killing all relatives of the person, and all relatives of the
relatives of the person, and all relatives of the relatives of the
relatives of the person .

Nine familial exterminations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


2) And, they would be chopped into at least 1000 pieces.

Slow slicing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

3) The history records shows china was a very poor country

- In the past 2000 years.
There were more than 110 great Famines in china, people even had to eat people to stay alive.

- In 1959-1961. . there are 30,000,000 chinese died in starvation.
Great Chinese Famine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


4) why some people believe china was a rich country?
North korea declares it is the heaven for 50 years,
china declares it is the heaven for 2000 years,
--
Ming Dynasty - China Highlights
www.chinahighlights.com &#8250; ... &#8250; Chinese Culture &#8250; China History
Feb 23, 2014 - The Ming Dynasty is the last feudal regime established by the Han ... and then it fell due to internal rebellions and the attack of the Manchus. ...Perhaps tens of millions of (chinese) people died, and these disasters were ..... In the first half of the 1600s, famines became common in northern China because of unusually ...

---------------------


-- if you google the photos of china, since 1850 to 1980, you will know china was poorer than india.

 

What bizarre anti-chinese website are you copying and pasting your 'facts' from?

Inventing written language was a rare, and amazing feat. Experts believe that it is likely only three civilizations invented writing independently- Mesopotamia(around 3200 BCE), China(around 1200 BCE) and MesoAmerica(around 600 BCE).

Of those three cultures, only one is still in existence today.

As I said before- I am no China fanboy- but I do enjoy reading history- and until about 1400-1500, China was technologically superior to the various small states of Europe.