The Secret Casualties of Iraq’s Abandoned Chemical Weapons

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by BroncoBilly, Oct 15, 2014.

  1. RichT2705

    RichT2705 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Correct, and then I linked you an article where the Iraqi Government claims they lost approximately 2500 of them to ISIS.


    So is the number 4 when someone asks 2+2= , however it is what it is.

    ISIS is fighting to take Kobani,
    Kobani defenders appear to have been exposed to chemical weapons.
    ISIS is in control of at least 2500 Chemical shells as reported by the Iraqi government.

    How much more do we need to connect these dots?
     
  2. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Those are the same 2500 US forces found during the Bush administration, when he said Iraq had no WMD.

    Thanks, but you didn't establish 2+2.

    Facts.
     
  3. RichT2705

    RichT2705 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    really? Do you have a list of serial numbers to substantiate that? That 2006 Speech was given before this find for example.

    http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/1...n-northern-iraq-former-british-colonel-warns/


    Even if they were, it changes nothing. Bush may have been speaking of the Yellow cake, as we already discussed. Bush saying no WMD's doesn't magically make these disappear.
    It's fact they are there and it's fact they were taken by ISIS.

    It's been clearly established.

    Chemical weapons in Iraq....fact
    ISIS fighting for Kobani...fact
    kobani Defenders exposed to chemcical weapons...Fact
    ISIS took at least 2500 Chemical weapons from Iraq...Fact


    Not sure what you're trying to say is missing or needed here. All have been documented.
     
  4. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You think that the 2500 old chem shells US forces found are somehow different than the 2500 chem shells that were there when ISIS took it?

    Not at all.

    You're assuming that the 2500 old shells US forces found in 2006 were all still there, but OK.

    Where's the proof that 1) Chem weapons were used by ISIS, and 2) if they were, that they got them from those old shells as opposed to Syria, which also had an ongoing Chem weapons program?
     
  5. RichT2705

    RichT2705 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What I think...is not documenting your claim, that's a sidestep. You said these were the same ones. Also, I added another cache they found in 2008 in an edit, you may have missed it...but it demonstrates my point. Many chemical weapons were found years after Bushes speech.

    So if you can prove there were only ever 2500 and these were the same ones...then I await the proof. On the end however this is all a smokescreen. It doesn't change the facts that ISIS now has Chemical Weapons, which they obtained in Iraq as documented by the Iraqi Government.


    Bushes speech holds no grounds here as he made this speech years ahead of many finds. (Such as the 2008 find I linked in with an edit above. Bushes speech couldn't have addressed that one for example)

    You keep painting the picture that there were only 2500 shells. You don't know that, and you don't know these are the same ones from that cache. We do know however that ISIS took them.


    Already given to you.

    1) Every news agency is reporting it...from Fox to Huffington.

    2) Already gave you the NY Time article where the Iraqi government states ISIS got Chemical Weapons from one of their facilities that was over run. The weapons there were supposed to have been buried in concrete, but were not for whatever reason, and then the facility was taken by ISIS.
    Iraqi Government lying about that? Meanwhile Kurd makeup artists in Kobani are trying out for the latest season of Face off by painting up dead fighters to look like Chemical weapons victims??

    Sorry, this has all been reported on. if this isn't enough for you, then you are willfully trying to downplay it.
     
  6. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I gave you the facts .. LOL Making stuff up as a substitute for the facts may help in the denial of reality but that is about it.
     
  7. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They found another 2500 shells are the same facility? Where's your link to that?

    Bush never changed his position that no WMD were found in Iraq.

    Since there were only about 5000 total shells found, 2500 represents about 1/2 of them. You couldn't have two different sets of 2500 shells found in the same location plus the hundreds of others found in other locations and still only have 5000.

    The had found about 4000 of the total 5000 found by 2006, when Bush admitted there were no WMDs in Iraq. Which he has never changed.

    You're fighting a losing battle here.

    You said that the Iraqis said ISIS got 2500 shells from the research facility, and the US forces found 2500 shells there. As you say; you connect the dots.

    No they are not.

    Here's Fox News: Gruesome photos may show ISIS using chemical weapons on Kurds
    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/1...-using-chemical-weapons-on-kurds-says-report/

    ISIS May Be Using Mustard Gas Linked to US Against Kurds
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/greg-mitchell/isis-may-be-using-mustard_b_5989080.html

    You (and RW propaganda sources like Breitbart and the NY Post) are taking sources that say this may be happening, and claiming it is established, unconverted fact.

    Deja vu of fabrications leading up to the Iraq war all over again.

    The Iraqi government is not necessarily the fountain of truth in my mind. They have plenty of reason to lie about that, because they want the world to fight their battle for them.

    But even if that is true, it doesn't establish that *if* chemical agent were used against Kurds that they came from Iraq as opposed to Syrian sources.

    Sorry, this has all been reported on. if this isn't enough for you, then you are willfully trying to downplay it.[/QUOTE]
     
  8. BroncoBilly

    BroncoBilly Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    According to who, you? :roflol:

    Watching you liberals scramble to dispute this article is soooooo entertaining
     
  9. BroncoBilly

    BroncoBilly Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    He did use them in the 80's, but from 1990 on he was being watched, and so burying them was his option to appease the weapons inspectors
     
  10. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    According to Bush.

    Watching you conservatives scramble to claim things even Bush had the integrity not to call "WMDs" is soooooo entertaining.
     
  11. RichT2705

    RichT2705 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The other link from 2008 doesn't list numbers of weapons found. Just says cases everywhere. But again, the 2500...and all this is a smokescreen. The relevant facts are that Chemical Weapons were in Iraq, and Taken by Isis, and are being used by them.

    he also never changed his position on Katrina being his fault, even when everyone could see it was Nagans. Doesn't change the facts that we know now. The chemical weapons were there, and now it seems ISIS has them.

    The number game here is a smokescreen side argument, which doesn't change the facts that Chemical Weapons (WMD) were there, and are now in the hands of ISIS...which you've been trying to cast doubt on.

    He also never changed his stance on Katrina. For all we know his speech may have been about the Yellow Cake uranium that never materialized.

    Not at all. Bushes speech in 2006 could not speak for things found after that. I already gave you another link with a facility discovered in 08. Bushes speech was likely addressing the Yellow cake uranium....which was not there.
     
  12. BroncoBilly

    BroncoBilly Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So you are saying since they have no delivery system as of now, they are not considered WMD? Really? You must be totally ok then with ISIS getting their hands on all that mustard gas that is not a WMD according to you.
     
  13. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No.

    ............
     
  14. RichT2705

    RichT2705 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    LOL...ok...they're making it all up. Maybe they're actually just bee stings and everyone is allergic to bees.

    Well if you have some links to ISIS gaining Chemical Weapons in Syria, I'll certainly entertain that possibility. I haven't seen anyone reporting that scenario though, only Iraqi weapons.
     
  15. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You're making presumptions that are not established fact.

    We always knew some old abandoned 1980s era chemical shells were lying around there.

    Old, obsolete, abandoned rusty old shells aren't WMD. Ask Bush. Or was he lying?

    We knew about his yellow cake stores long before the invasion as well.

    No, because about 4000 of the 5000 total old chemical shells had been found.

    And Bush never changed his position that there were no WMD with any later discoveries.

    Here's an article of Dec 2008:

    Looking back on his eight years in the White House, President Bush pinpointed incorrect intelligence that Iraqi President Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction as the "biggest regret of all the presidency."


    http://abcnews.go.com/WN/Politics/story?id=6354012

    From Nov 2010:

    Former US President George W Bush still has "a sickening feeling" about the failure to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, US media report.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-11680239

    He's never changed his statement there were now WMD in Iraq and has repeatedly affirmed it.
     
  16. BroncoBilly

    BroncoBilly Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well that is just what ISIS is getting, all of those non-WMD's you claim are irrelevant
     
  17. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, you're the one whose making it up. Even Fox didn't say they used chemical weapons, only that they may have been used.

    FoxNews:

    If Islamic State has chemical weapons, they also could have obtained them in Syria, where embattled President Bashar Assad has several factories for making deadly chemical weapons, despite pledging to get rid of them under pressure from the West. The group could even have produced the weapons themselves, using commercially-available ingredients, according to Ryan Mauro, a terrorism analyst for The Clarion Project, a New York research institute.

    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/1...-using-chemical-weapons-on-kurds-says-report/

    - - - Updated - - -


    FoxNews:

    If Islamic State has chemical weapons, they also could have obtained them in Syria, where embattled President Bashar Assad has several factories for making deadly chemical weapons, despite pledging to get rid of them under pressure from the West. The group could even have produced the weapons themselves, using commercially-available ingredients, according to Ryan Mauro, a terrorism analyst for The Clarion Project, a New York research institute.

    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/1...-using-chemical-weapons-on-kurds-says-report/[/QUOTE]
     
  18. Phoebe Bump

    Phoebe Bump New Member

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    My only question is: if Bush invaded Iraq to seize Saddam's WMDs, why didn't he seize them? Certainly he could have seized one or two. Some poor dumb waterboarded soul would have revealed a location.

    Nah, if ISIS has chems, they are coming from Israel or they are OUR chems (forget the precursor nonsense) and Bush could not reveal that he had found Rummy's own bombs. For that matter, he couldn't reveal that they came from Israel either. I don't suppose those GIs said anything about labels or stamps on those bombs. Supposedly, they had 5000 stamps available to be read.

    Conclusion: Those were OUR chems (or Israel's) and, like all the tanks and APCs and ammunition left behind, they have fallen into ISIS hands. What could be rosier?
     
  19. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Assuming they actually used them, which is still an assumption at this point, they could have gotten them in Syria or made their own.
     
  20. Phoebe Bump

    Phoebe Bump New Member

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    Well, he either lied about Saddam having a stockpile or he lied when he said he couldn't find it after several years of looking and called off the hunt. The ol' foolproof waterboard was always at his disposal and some dumb schmuck would have pinpointed a location IF we wanted to find them.

    I can think of only a couple reasons for calling off the hunt. One is that the invasion was already on, he didn't need the pretext anymore, and he hoped the weapons had disappeared or been destroyed. The other is that he HAD found the weapons, they turned out to be OURS, and he would have been skinned right here in the states.

    The problem with the first lie is that it got us into his (*)(*)(*)(*)ty little war. The problem with the second lie is that the weapons are now in ISIS hands. Cool.
     
  21. LoneStrSt8

    LoneStrSt8 New Member Past Donor

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    Making stuff up?....the example I gave is documented,and spoil from castor beans can easily be used to make Ricin....
     
  22. BroncoBilly

    BroncoBilly Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    [/QUOTE]
    But that's no big deal to you, because you and Bush said they weren't WMD's

    Too funny, a liberal quoting FOX News
     
  23. LoneStrSt8

    LoneStrSt8 New Member Past Donor

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    You liberals constantly whine about Bush 'lying' us into war but suddenly accept 'no WMD' unflinchingly...odd
     
  24. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You conservatives constantly defend Bush but suddenly reject "no WMD" unflinchingly...odd
     
  25. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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