Large churches in democratic nations should print their own currencies.

DennisTate · Nov 8, 2014

www.CalgaryDollars.ca/
is a good example of how several dozen socially active residents of an area can begin what amounts to a second tier to the economy.

The Ithaca Hour is an excellent example of a similar concept being applied in the United States.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ithaca_Hours

The Ithaca HOUR is a local currency used in Ithaca, New York and is the oldest and largest local currency system in the United States that is still operating.[1] It has inspired other similar systems in Madison, Wisconsin; Corvallis, Oregon;[2] and a proposed system in the Lehigh Valley, Pennsylvania.[3] One Ithaca HOUR is valued at US$10 and is generally recommended to be used as payment for one hour's work, although the rate is negotiable.
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Most North American churches have a desire to assist the poor and the oppressed. Well….. in 2014 efforts by a group of socially active Christians could easily transform dozens of homeless people into actors….. who are playing the role of homeless people….. and the specific efforts to help them could becomes scenes in a series of documentary and reality films designed to give the homeless people a job that finances their getting an apartment or at least a group home.

Most of us are unaware of the Worgl, Austria local currency experiment that was conducted during the Great Depression and how successfully it was copied in hundreds of communities in the USA. As a matter of fact…… it looks like what these communities accomplished played a significant role in inspiring the USA government to alter the monetary system in many positive ways.

http://www.whatcomwatch.org/php/WW_open.php?id=717

City in Austria Printed Local Currency

Worgl, like many other European towns and cities, was hit hard by the Great Depression. There was mass unemployment; four of the five local factories had closed, and the people were starving in the streets. Nobody had any money to buy anything. One of the features of an economic depression is that there is not enough money in circulation to ensure that people can meet their basic needs, and in the 1930s, the shortage of currency in many countries of the world became catastrophic.

The mayor of Worgl, together with local businessmen, decided to try to break this economic impasse by creating their own local currency. They printed and issued 60,000 Austrian shillings worth of local currency. These shillings could only be spent in Worgl, so they remained in the local community and were exchanged over and over again.

The positive impact was immediate and surprising to everyone. In only six weeks, unemployment disappeared, all the factories had reopened and everyone had food. For the inhabitants of Worgl, the economic depression was gone. This dramatic transformation became known as the “miracle of Worgl.” Surrounding towns, inspired by the success of Worgl, immediately started printing their own local currencies.

Sadly, the miracle did not last long. When the Austrian Central Bank heard about Worgl’s local currency, they initiated legal proceedings against the mayor and local businessmen. According to Austrian banking law, it was illegal for anyone except the Austrian Central Bank to issue money. The bank won the court case, and the mayor was ordered to shut down the local currency, which he did, under threat of imprisonment. The town then returned to the devastating economic depression of the 1930s, with all the human pain and suffering associated with this catastrophe. Factories closed, and once again, the people starved.

Alternative Currency in the U.S.

Irving Fisher, an American professor of economics at Yale University, visited Worgl before the local currency was suppressed and witnessed the ‘miracle’ firsthand. When he returned to the United States, Fisher spread the word by traveling and lecturing across the country, advocating the use of the Worgl ‘scrip’ everywhere. Inspired by his vision, hundreds of communities began issuing their own currency, and by 1934 there were over 1,000 local communities using ‘scrip’ throughout the U.S.

Every one of these communities experienced a tremendous rejuvenation of their local economies. They thrived while others suffered. Fisher then met with President Franklin D. Roosevelt, proposing the implementation of government-sanctioned local ‘scrip’ in every community in America. When FDR consulted with his top financial advisors and bankers, however, he was advised to shut all the ‘scrip’ systems down, which he did. Instead, he borrowed large amounts of money from bankers, at interest, and used it to pay for the Reconstruction Finance Corporation and the other work-creation projects, which collectively came to be known as the ‘New Deal.’ So ended the last widespread use of a local currency within the U.S.
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The Wyrd of Gawd · Nov 8, 2014

The Dutch had a similar system when they were going through their tulip mania. They just used tulip bulbs instead of cash.

DennisTate · Nov 9, 2014

The Wyrd of Gawd said: ↑

The Dutch had a similar system when they were going through their tulip mania. They just used tulip bulbs instead of cash.
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Yes..... depending on how people think.... widely different values can be placed on commodities.

"There will be a sudden rush to buy farms, ranches, and homes in the country.

Thousands will attempt to flee from cities, hoping that a return to the land and

nature will provide security. There will be a growing urge to "get away from it

all"---and much money will be invested in land and acreage in rural areas by

people who have secret dreams of raising their own food and cattle and of

becoming self-supporting. The price of open rural land will continue to soar.

Acreage within 100 miles of most major cities will skyrocket out of reach to

all but syndicates." (David Wilkerson, The Vision, page 18,19).
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DennisTate · Dec 14, 2014

The Wyrd of Gawd said: ↑

The Dutch had a similar system when they were going through their tulip mania. They just used tulip bulbs instead of cash.
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Have you read much about the "Scrip" that was issued by the 13 States previous to the American REvolution?

http://www.politicalforum.com/opini...etary-policy-central-american-revolution.html
Is it historically accurate that monetary policy was central to American Revolution?
I am wondering if the following article is basically accurate or largely inaccurate historically?

http://rense.com/general66/nobeyb.htm

America Created It's
Own Money In 1750
How Benjamin Franklin Made
New England Prosperous
By Congressman Charles G. Binderup
Copyright © 1941

"We have no poor houses in the Colonies; and if we had some, there would be nobody to put in them, since there is, in the Colonies, not a single unemployed person, neither beggars nor tramps." Thanks To Free Money Issued By The Nation His friends could not believe their ears, and even less understand this fact, since when the English poor houses and jails became too cluttered, England shipped these poor wretches and down-and- outs, like cattle, and discharged, on the quays of the Colonies, those who had survived the poverty, dirtiness and privations of the journey. At that time, England was throwing into jail those who could not pay their debts. They therefore asked Franklin how he could explain the remarkable prosperity of the New England Colonies. Franklin replied:

"That is simple. In the Colonies, we issue our own paper money. It is called 'Colonial Scrip.' We issue it in proper proportion to make the goods and pass easily from the producers to the consumers. In this manner, creating ourselves our own paper money, we control its purchasing power and we have no interest to pay to no one."

The Bankers Impose Poverty The information came to the knowledge of the English Bankers, and held their attention. They immediately took the necessary steps to have the British Parliament to pass a law that prohibited the Colonies from using their scrip money, and then ordered them to use only the gold and silver money that was provided in sufficient quantity by the English bankers. Then began in America the plague of debt-money, which has never since brought so many curses to the American people. The first law was passed in 1751, and then completed by a more restrictive law in 1763.

Franklin reported that one year after the implementation of this prohibition on Colonial money, the streets of the Colonies were filled with unemployment and beggars, just like in England, because there was not enough money to pay for the goods and work. The circulating medium of exchange had been reduced by half. Franklin added that this was the original cause of the American Revolution - and not the tax on tea nor the Stamp Act, as it has been taught again and again in history books.

The financiers always manage to have removed from school books all that can throw light on their own schemes, and damage the glow that protects their power. Franklin, who was one of the chief architects of the American independence, wrote it clearly:

"The Colonies would gladly have borne the little tax on tea and other matters had it not been the poverty caused by the bad influence of the English bankers on the Parliament, which has caused in the Colonies hatred of England and the Revolutionary War."
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DennisTate · Jan 27, 2015

The Wyrd of Gawd said: ↑

The Dutch had a similar system when they were going through their tulip mania. They just used tulip bulbs instead of cash.
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Theoretically…… some sort of "Rick Warren Volunteerism Hour"……… could pay off the national debt of the USA over the coming two to three decades?????!!!

All he would have to do is get the political left as well as the political right…. together on the project?!

DennisTate · Jan 27, 2015

1Kings 18:21
"And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word."

I personally believe that all of us in the western democratic "Christian" nations are facing a similar question. but more complex now we are faced with discerning if the Being of Light of NDE fame is Messiah Yeshua - Jesus in H-s glorified form. or is the being of light a fallen angel.. acting. masquerading. as an angel of light?!?!

http://www.politicalforum.com/gay-lesbian-rights/380595-g-ds-agenda-gay-community.html
G-d's Agenda for the Gay Community?!
Assuming the accuracy of the following two paragraphs... what specifically would G-d/ HaShem/ YHWH/ The G-d of Abraham be planning to do through the Gay Community?

http://www.near-death.com/andreason.html#a11

What about sexually diverse people?

If this world was to ever find out just a small amount of what sexually diverse (gay) people are here to do on this planet, there would never be one single wisecrack or hurtful remark made ever again. Instead there would be great respect! People who speak disrespectful things about people of this orientation ... enact judgment, and do so from a place of unenlightenment, insecurity, ego and socially induced prejudice. Some may use mistranslated scriptures taught to them, not by the Holy Spirit ... but by fear-filled human beings. Many will choose to sustain a Divinely unsupported satanic hate-based rage against these children of God, rather than using Love to bring understanding and healing between both peoples. Christ said, THE GREATEST COMMANDMENT IS THAT WE ARE TO LOVE ONE ANOTHER! When people sling condemnation, judgment and bitterness at others, they are not practicing the great commandment. They are allowing their Souls to fall into darkness." (Christian Andreason)
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Obviously..... one of the things that our Creator wishes to do through the Gay Community..... is to create a whole new world in which there....."would never be one single wisecrack or hurtful remark made ever again"... is expanded and expanded and expanded to all groups and communities on earth?!

I think?!

.

I personally came to the conclusion that Pastor Rick Warren is on the side of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus in his glorified - more fundamental energy form. but a significant percentage of sincere students of the Jewish and Christian scriptures would tend to vehemently disagree?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jmGu9o4fDE
Letter to the Pastors of Uganda

The overwhelmingly Christian nation of Uganda was facing a pretty serious theological, philosophical as well as political question

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uganda_Anti-Homosexuality_Act,_2014

The Uganda Anti-Homosexuality Act, 2014 (previously called the "Kill the Gays bill" in the western mainstream media due to the originally proposed death penalty clauses)[1][2][3][4][5] was passed by the Parliament of Uganda on 20 December 2013 with the death penalty proposal dropped in favour of life in prison. The bill was signed into law by the President of Uganda on 24 February 2014.[6][7]

The legislative proposal would broaden the criminalisation of same-sex relations in Uganda domestically, and further includes provisions for Ugandans who engage in same-sex relations outside of Uganda, asserting that they may be extradited for punishment back to Uganda, and includes penalties for individuals, companies, media organisations, or non-governmental organisations that know of gay people or support LGBT rights.

The private member's bill was submitted by Member of Parliament David Bahati on 14 October 2009. Same-sex relationships are currently illegal in Ugandaas they are in many sub-Saharan African countriespunishable by incarceration in prison for up to 14 years. A special motion to introduce the legislation was passed a month after a two-day conference was held in which three American Christians asserted that homosexuality is a direct threat to the cohesion of African families. Several sources have noted endemic homophobia in Uganda has been exacerbated by the bill and the associated discussions about it.[8]

On 1 August 2014, the Constitutional Court of Uganda ruled the law invalid
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DennisTate · Jan 27, 2015

The Wyrd of Gawd said: ↑

The Dutch had a similar system when they were going through their tulip mania. They just used tulip bulbs instead of cash.
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Theoretically…… this proposal could lay the foundation for the paying off of the national debts of the USA, Canada, England, Australia, Israel, New Zealand, France, Ireland, Denmark, Norway, and The Netherlands by the year……2017
……."JUBILEE 2017!!!!!?"

http://www.politicalforum.com/religion-philosophy/381229-jesus-returns-2017-a.html

RevAnarchist said: ↑

In 1217,(*) a year of Jubilee, the Jewish Rabbi Judah Ben Samuel prophesied about the final 10 Jubilees before the Messianic Kingdom would begin, to Christians that means when Jesus returns.
2017 is the year he predicted, not that would be akin to the Mayan end time prophesy that the world or time would end in 2012. Except this guy has arguably been accurate about some things. For example the start of the final 10 Jubilees would be signaled by the Ottoman Turks rule over the holy city of Jerusalem, which would last for 8 Jubilees or 400 years. A Jubilee is a period of 50 years according to Leviticus 25:8-13. In 1517, which was also a jubilee year, the Ottoman Turks seized control of the city of Jerusalem and ruled over it for the next 400 years!(*)This prediction is a fact! Ok back to the Turks, as predicted they were finally driven out of the city and the holy land in 1917 by the Allied forces under the command of General George Allenby. The Rabbi’s prophecy about the 400 years was fulfilled exactly to the year.

It gets better or maybe worse for non-Christians, because The Rabbi also prophesied that during the ninth Jubilee , the next 50 years, Jerusalem would be a “no-man’s land.” This is exactly what happened from 1917 to 1967! The Holy City was placed under British Mandate in 1917 by the League of Nations and literally “belonged” to no nation. Even after Israel’s war of independence in 1948-49, Jerusalem was still divided by a strip of land running right through the heart of the city. Jordan controlled the eastern part of the city and Israel controlled the western part of the city. That strip of land was even called “no-man’s land” by both the Israelis and the Jordanians. It was not until the Six Day War in 1967 that the whole city of Jerusalem passed back into the possession of Israel. So once again the prophecy made by the Rabbi was fulfilled to the letter!

Now the most scary and exciting time period;The Rabbi also said that during the 10th and final Jubilee, Jerusalem would be under the control of the Jews until the Messianic kingdom would begin. The 10th Jubilee began in 1967 and will be concluded in 2017.

If the Rabbi’s prophecy holds true and the millennium kingdom begins in 2017, what does that tell us? If the “Time of Jacob’s Trouble” The Rabbi’s have taught there will be a total of 120 Jubilee cycles (6000 years) from the time God created the earth until the beginning of the Messianic Kingdom.

Most of the above was plagiarized from the web but I think it is interesting. Its not exactly what I believe, unless some truly world shaking both natural and maybe supernatural events take place. I am taking a wait and see attitude, but am doubling down that the timeline is off no more than 25 years, which is just an educated guess.

reva
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I believe that all of us who call ourselves Christian are facing a truly serious choice……… Should we support the Jewish people in their desire to rebuild their Jerusalem Third TEmple complex according to the description given in Ezekiel chapters 40 - 48?

Ultimately…… this is a choice……. if we Christians follow the positive example of President Obama's older brother Malik Obama….. the Jerusalem Third Temple could well be constructed on the 2000 year anniversary of the death, burial and resurrection of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus……. or if we choose…….. this event can be delayed forty years to the year 2070…… the 2000 year anniversary of the destruction of the Second Temple by the armies of Rome?

Another option is our support for the transfer of the remains of Rabbi Nachman of Breslov from the Ukraine to somewhere in Israel?

Breslovian Chassidic Jews would regard this as an extremely important mitzvah for Gentiles to accomplish.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bring-Rabbi-Nachman-to-Jerusalem/237417132962460
Bring Rabbi Nachman to Jerusalem

…...
http://www.politicalforum.com/polit...obama-one-worlds-most-courageous-muslims.html
Is Malik Obama one of the worlds' most courageous Muslims?
In my opinion.....YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!

Obama’s Brother in Support of Third Temple Built in Jerusalem

…..“I’m at that stage now where I’m trying to do something and make a contribution to mankind,” Malik Obama said, referring to Yisrayl Hawkins’ Third Temple proposal. “I feel a lot better with myself today, and I welcome and embrace the principles and the concept I am hearing today.” In the speech, Malik addressed the apparent contradiction between his Muslim faith and the goal of rebuilding the Third Temple adjacent to the Dome of the Rock on the Temple Mount. “It’s easy for me to get with the program because I’m a Muslim, you know, a practicing Muslim, and all the principles that are within the program [of building the Third Temple] are within my beliefs,” Malik said. “So, it’s easy for me to step right in and be part of the program."
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endtimeheadlines.org/temple-mount/obamas-brother-in-support-of-third-temple-built-in-jerusalem/

DennisTate · Jun 3, 2015

The Wyrd of Gawd said: ↑

The Dutch had a similar system when they were going through their tulip mania. They just used tulip bulbs instead of cash.
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Here is an example of a type of project where these church currencies could be used to partly finance a really large project such as taking 937 refugees from Jordan or Turkey to Canada through a group of film production companies and cooperatives working together to partly replicate the M. S. St. Louis saga!

I think this could be a new genre of film.... semi reality science fiction... because the refugees are real refugees and they really are getting a new and vastly safer homeland!

http://www.politicalforum.com/canad...ts-take-937-those-syrian-refugees-canada.html
Mr. Justin Trudeau, let's take 937 of those Syrian refugees to Canada?

DennisTate · Jun 20, 2015

Now this is a perfect example of what I mean…….. but if several churches printed up some form of "Volunteerism Hour" then the churches could have some friendly competition with each other to do more good for more desperate people more efficiently………… and the results could be published on youtube.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2007/12/mormons-rescue

There's no better place to see the manifestation of all this than in a crisis. Mormons are masters of disaster preparedness, a point that neither Romney nor his advisers have yet touted. The church's humanitarian-services arm is an underappreciated asset that Romney has thus far failed to capitalize on as he's contended with the charge—or suspicion—that his religion makes him too weird to be president.

Ever since 9/11, federal and state officials have been imploring Americans to stockpile some food and water and supplies in the basement, without tremendous success (if my basement is any indication). But long before the war on terror, the Mormon church was teaching its members how to prepare for the worst. As the church's Welfare Services Handbook says, "No true Latter-day Saint, while physically or emotionally able, will voluntarily shift the burden of his own or his family's well-being to someone else." To that end, the church coaches members to stockpile a year's worth of food and drinking water, along with other provisions, and most do. If terrorists or a tornado hits your neighborhood, you definitely want to be living next door to a family of Mormons.

The church's self-reliance dogma extends beyond the average family basement to the community at large. For instance, it runs Bishop's Storehouse Services, a network of regional warehouses that became well known during the Great Depression. When disaster strikes, church elders spring into action to distribute the goods through a welfare organization whose efficiency has been compared by some writers to the German Wehrmacht.
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mihapiha · Jun 20, 2015

I don't understand the point of this topic. Having your own currency is not a new thing.

DennisTate · Jun 21, 2015

mihapiha said: ↑

I don't understand the point of this topic. Having your own currency is not a new thing.
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Very true…… but using what would work much like a number of local currencies to greatly increase the production of food, or at least streamline the distribution system for the existing production of food…………. to alter the economic situation for children born in Africa who would be destined to starve to death under the existing conditions would be a new thing.

Over in this topic the OP…. gives an article about a new vaccination that can beat malaria for one dollar per day…..

http://www.politicalforum.com/science/413318-beat-malaria-1-shot.html
Beat Malaria for $1 a Shot

longknife said: ↑

If this is true, it's big news. This comes from the article:

What the article – and many others – ignore is that malaria is an insect-borne disease and has a simple way to stop its spread – the use of DDT! It's the best known insect killer in the world.

Read more about the drug @ http://www.foxnews.com/health/2015/06/18/new-drug-compound-may-beat-malaria-with-single-1-dose/
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…

Moi621 comes back with…..

Moi621 said: ↑

Great.

How are YOU going to feed all the survivors?

U.N. vaccination programs in Africa are well known to have resulted in regional famines.

Moi

r > g

View attachment 35821
Even if they are, Malaria Free
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longknife said: ↑

Please explain to me how vaccinating against diseases causes famines.
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……

Moi621 said: ↑

More mouths to feed with no increase in food production.
Think, please. Really. It happened.
This was a common cause of famine in Africa courtesy of U.N. Do Goodism.
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I realize that Moi621 is correct that large scale vaccinations for malaria have indeed led to famines in the past decades…….so I reply with………

DennisTate said: ↑

I actually do have an idea on how children born in Africa who would be destined to starve to death under the existing economic conditions……… could be given vastly better lives…… and the whole thing could theoretically be organized from Canada and the USA?!

http://www.politicalforum.com/econo...-north-american-economy-could-organizing.html
Volunteerism is over twenty percent of North American economy… could organizing it...
back up…… stabilize…. insure… the value of the USA dollar?

Ithaca, New York has one of the simplest and easily understood measuring instruments for economic activity imaginable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ithaca_Hours

The Ithaca HOUR is a local currency used in Ithaca, New York and is the oldest and largest local currency system in the United States that is still operating.[1][not in citation given] It has inspired other similar systems in Madison, Wisconsin; Corvallis, Oregon;[2] and a proposed system in the Lehigh Valley, Pennsylvania.[3] One Ithaca HOUR is valued at US$10 and is generally recommended to be used as payment for one hour's work, although the rate is negotiable.
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Is it theoretically possible for a group of people to accomplish a much greater organization of volunteerism through a database that would give North America a secondary economy that we could fall back on….. just in case?
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mihapiha · Jun 21, 2015

I may misunderstand the point of this topic, but I do feel like I want to broaden my previous statement.

Most large companies have their own currencies. They give you points (or what ever they call it) you as a customer collect. With the fake currency you then can purchase something in their store. It shouldn't be too hard to think of an example somewhere near you.

Then you have the next step where a company produces an actual physical currency like Disney and they call it "Disney Dollar" or something like that. This is more costly obviously than keeping the currency on a card or an account.

The issue with all these is that it's hard to trade those currencies or the value of these currencies against another currency. The product market is therefore quite limited, especially since few people are willing to buy Disney Dollars who don't happen to live near to a Disney theme park.

You have to keep in mind that no currency in the world has any intrinsic value. If your stuck on an island without people you'll notice that one million dollars or 10 pounds of gold doesn't help you. So the value of any currency is determent only by people and what we believe the currency is worth. But in fact, every currency is worthless.

If you keep that in mind, the difference between currencies is therefore only the trust people have in a currency. If for some reason a billion people lost trust in the US Dollar, the currency would be worthless.

If any church therefore creates their own currency, is completely irrelevant. The question is whether they can create enough trust in a value of the currency for people to actually use it. They basically face the same problem countries face upon creation. Some countries like East-Timor choose to print their own currency, but use American coins in order to establish the value. Montenegro decided not to use their own currency at all, and the country is just using the Euro without being part of the EU. Bosnia decided to make their own currency called the Bosnian Mark, which was value wise based on the German Mark, which people understood value wise.

So the question I have in my mind is not whether a church establishes a currency or not, but can they establish enough believe and trust in the currency for people to actually value it.

DennisTate · Jun 29, 2015

mihapiha said: ↑

I may misunderstand the point of this topic, but I do feel like I want to broaden my previous statement.

Most large companies have their own currencies. They give you points (or what ever they call it) you as a customer collect. With the fake currency you then can purchase something in their store. It shouldn't be too hard to think of an example somewhere near you.

Then you have the next step where a company produces an actual physical currency like Disney and they call it "Disney Dollar" or something like that. This is more costly obviously than keeping the currency on a card or an account.

The issue with all these is that it's hard to trade those currencies or the value of these currencies against another currency. The product market is therefore quite limited, especially since few people are willing to buy Disney Dollars who don't happen to live near to a Disney theme park.

You have to keep in mind that no currency in the world has any intrinsic value. If your stuck on an island without people you'll notice that one million dollars or 10 pounds of gold doesn't help you. So the value of any currency is determent only by people and what we believe the currency is worth. But in fact, every currency is worthless.

If you keep that in mind, the difference between currencies is therefore only the trust people have in a currency. If for some reason a billion people lost trust in the US Dollar, the currency would be worthless.

If any church therefore creates their own currency, is completely irrelevant. The question is whether they can create enough trust in a value of the currency for people to actually use it. They basically face the same problem countries face upon creation. Some countries like East-Timor choose to print their own currency, but use American coins in order to establish the value. Montenegro decided not to use their own currency at all, and the country is just using the Euro without being part of the EU. Bosnia decided to make their own currency called the Bosnian Mark, which was value wise based on the German Mark, which people understood value wise.

So the question I have in my mind is not whether a church establishes a currency or not, but can they establish enough believe and trust in the currency for people to actually value it.
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This answer is absolutely brilliant!

This is the calibre of reply that I can copy and paste into several other discussions that I have going where this sort of option is being discussed! Wow, thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!

I believe that a desperate situation such as the Great Depression increased the tendency of people in small towns and villages to resort to the desperate measure...... of printing up local currencies.... thus the success of the Worgl, Austria local money experiment in over one thousand communities in America.... as referred to in the opening post.

A large scale devaluation of the USA dollar...... for whatever reason...... would make local currencies....... or companies currencies......... more attractive to significant numbers of people.

mihapiha · Jun 30, 2015

DennisTate said: ↑

This answer is absolutely brilliant!

This is the calibre of reply that I can copy and paste into several other discussions that I have going where this sort of option is being discussed! Wow, thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!

I believe that a desperate situation such as the Great Depression increased the tendency of people in small towns and villages to resort to the desperate measure...... of printing up local currencies.... thus the success of the Worgl, Austria local money experiment in over one thousand communities in America.... as referred to in the opening post.

A large scale devaluation of the USA dollar...... for whatever reason...... would make local currencies....... or companies currencies......... more attractive to significant numbers of people.
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My pleasure!

It would be quite counter-intuitive to go to a smaller currency. If the US Dollar falls in value, your first instinct isn't to buy a small currency like a Disney Dollar or a weaker currency like the Mexican Pesos, but to invest into something you have even more trust in than the US Dollar; i.e. Gold or the British Pound or Euro or Diamonds, etc.

The smaller the currency the harder it is to maintain its value.

DennisTate · Jul 1, 2015

mihapiha said: ↑

My pleasure!

It would be quite counter-intuitive to go to a smaller currency. If the US Dollar falls in value, your first instinct isn't to buy a small currency like a Disney Dollar or a weaker currency like the Mexican Pesos, but to invest into something you have even more trust in than the US Dollar; i.e. Gold or the British Pound or Euro or Diamonds, etc.

The smaller the currency the harder it is to maintain its value.
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Very very true!!!!!!!!!

What I am actually thinking of............. involves the number 128 TRILLION dollars......… or 256 trillion......… or 512 trillion........ or even 1024 TRILLION DOLLARS if necessary........ but the new measuring instrument.......... in my opinion should probably be HOURS...… so that we have at least a somewhat similar concept in mind no matter what nation we are in.

I personally have been fascinated by Judaism since I was a teenager in the '70's and I really do believe that the idea of JUBILEE is necessary....... inspired........ and can actually come to pass....... the national debt of the USA, Canada, Israel, Australia and England could be paid off................ and the foundation for this could be laid by the year 2017............. which is interesting because whoever Americans decide to elect in November of 2016..... will actually assume power in January of 2017?!

http://www.politicalforum.com/religion-philosophy/381229-jesus-returns-2017-a.html
Jesus returns in 2017,,,,

RevAnarchist said: ↑

In 1217,(*) a year of Jubilee, the Jewish Rabbi Judah Ben Samuel prophesied about the final 10 Jubilees before the Messianic Kingdom would begin, to Christians that means when Jesus returns.
2017 is the year he predicted, not that would be akin to the Mayan end time prophesy that the world or time would end in 2012. Except this guy has arguably been accurate about some things. For example the start of the final 10 Jubilees would be signaled by the Ottoman Turks rule over the holy city of Jerusalem, which would last for 8 Jubilees or 400 years. A Jubilee is a period of 50 years according to Leviticus 25:8-13. In 1517, which was also a jubilee year, the Ottoman Turks seized control of the city of Jerusalem and ruled over it for the next 400 years!(*)This prediction is a fact! Ok back to the Turks, as predicted they were finally driven out of the city and the holy land in 1917 by the Allied forces under the command of General George Allenby. The Rabbi’s prophecy about the 400 years was fulfilled exactly to the year.

It gets better or maybe worse for non-Christians, because The Rabbi also prophesied that during the ninth Jubilee , the next 50 years, Jerusalem would be a “no-man’s land.” This is exactly what happened from 1917 to 1967! The Holy City was placed under British Mandate in 1917 by the League of Nations and literally “belonged” to no nation. Even after Israel’s war of independence in 1948-49, Jerusalem was still divided by a strip of land running right through the heart of the city. Jordan controlled the eastern part of the city and Israel controlled the western part of the city. That strip of land was even called “no-man’s land” by both the Israelis and the Jordanians. It was not until the Six Day War in 1967 that the whole city of Jerusalem passed back into the possession of Israel. So once again the prophecy made by the Rabbi was fulfilled to the letter!

Now the most scary and exciting time period;The Rabbi also said that during the 10th and final Jubilee, Jerusalem would be under the control of the Jews until the Messianic kingdom would begin. The 10th Jubilee began in 1967 and will be concluded in 2017.

If the Rabbi’s prophecy holds true and the millennium kingdom begins in 2017, what does that tell us? If the “Time of Jacob’s Trouble” The Rabbi’s have taught there will be a total of 120 Jubilee cycles (6000 years) from the time God created the earth until the beginning of the Messianic Kingdom.

Most of the above was plagiarized from the web but I think it is interesting. Its not exactly what I believe, unless some truly world shaking both natural and maybe supernatural events take place. I am taking a wait and see attitude, but am doubling down that the timeline is off no more than 25 years, which is just an educated guess.

reva
Click to expand...

Now I disagree with Reva on one important point..... I do not think that 2017 is necessarily the time of the coming of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus...… down to earth in a similar manner to how his disciples saw him taken up.........… My theory is that 2017 is the time for the raising up of a modern CYRUS type of political leader......… as elaborated on in Isaiah 45 and by a near death experiencer from Uganda named Eporu Ronald Alfred.......

DennisTate · Jul 1, 2015

The fulfillment of JUBILEE...........................… for any and all nations that begin to act out their role to support the Jewish people in completing the role that they must act out.............. involves whatever amount of "money" would be need to pay off all the debts of all nations.... that line up with the Cyrus Covenant that is elaborated on in Isaiah.......... That is why I used those colossal numbers in the post above............. There were 127 provinces in the Medo- Persian Empire..... assume one or two or three or four or even five or six trillion invested in each provinces...… we end up with the numbers 128 or 256 or 512 or even 1028 trillion hours........ in time money......… whatever is needed to fulfill JUBILEE.

Isaiah 45:3 "And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel."

http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=381229&page=67&p=1065150711#post1065150711

Jesus returns in 2017,,,,

Eporu Ronald Alfred

Kakira Deliverance Church,
P.O. Box 3191, Kakira, Jinja, Uganda

......

Dear brethren,
I salute you in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ!

RE: SHARING NEW DISCOVERIES OF THE TRUTH IN BIBLE PROPHECY CONCERNING THE IMMINENT HEALING AND UNITY OF THE CHURCH

I am mesmerized by the truth in bible prophecy that the Spirit of God has been revealing over the recent years. Secret things belong to God and those that are revealed belong to us and our children... (Deut 29: 29).

1. King Cyrus the great ruled his country 555 years Before Christ i.e. from 576 BC to 530 BC and authorised the rebuilding of the second temple in Jerusalem. Cyrus of the Old Testament is hence associated with the number 555 and is the shadow figure of incoming Cyrus II of the New Testament. You may learn more about his history from the internet and scriptures. This new truth enables us to identify the leadership of the world that will rebuild the temple in Jerusalem as prophesied in book of Isaiah before the rise of antichrist. Cyrus II is coming to revive the evangelical/Pentecostal church in Jerusalem and restore the headquarters of the church in same city where the church was born. He is set to strip Babylon of the vessels of the temple and the name of the Lord God and transfer that crown back to Jerusalem thus leaving Babylon naked. Cyrus will rebuild the temple in Jerusalem in fulfilment of the prophecy of Jesus as written in the book of John 2:18-23 and the prophecy of Isaiah as written in chapters 40, 41, 45 and 47 of the book of Isaiah. Jesus regarded the temple as the symbol of his own body while saying that he had the power to lay it down on the first day (1st millennium) and rebuild or raise it up on the 3rd day (3rd millennium). Remember that one day in the eyes of God is the same as one thousand years (millennium) as stated in book of 2 Peter 3:8. Rebuilding of the temple is thus associated with unification of the church.

Cyrus II will rebuild the temple in honour of our lord Jesus Christ. The temple will be the unifying (rallying) point of the world wide evangelical church as the original headquarters of the church. Psalms133 denotes that there is such a powerful anointing that comes along with unity among brethren. Unification of the whole body of Jesus Christ will make the church so powerful that she will overrun the world within a short time before the return of our lord Jesus Christ. A divided church is a powerless church whereas a united church is a powerful church. The church can only be able to fulfil her ultimate mission of revealing Jesus to the world once we get united as one body of Jesus Christ following his last prayer for his disciples as written in John 17:20-23.

Cyrus II will erase that false image of Jesus that the counterfeit and Idolatrous state church of Babylon has been projecting around the world and revive the original church that projects the true brilliant image of Jesus Christ. Haggai 2:9 says that the glory of the latter church (temple) will be greater than the glory of the former church (temple).The rise of Cyrus will also usher in the ultimate fulfilment of the prophecy of Joel 2:28 where God intends to pour out His Spirit on all flesh in these last days. The era of Cyrus brings the gentile period of grace to its close and leads to the restoration of the Jewish period of grace and salvation.

2. King Manasseh was the shadow figure (forerunner) of the antichrist in the Old Testament who ruled over Jerusalem exactly 666 years Before Christ i.e. from 697 BC to 642 BC. (2 chronicle 33: 1-2 and 2 kings 21: 1-17). Antichrist is associated with the number 666 as written in the book of Revelation 13:18. Manasseh was the most evil king to have ever ruled over the city of Jerusalem and kingdom of Judah.

Manasseh is reported to have killed so many innocent people in Jerusalem that the streets of Jerusalem were flowing with blood; he worshiped pagan idols and stars; he built pagan alters for idols and stars in the very courtyards of the temple; he sacrificed his sons to idols; he consulted diviners and mediums; he even set up an abominable pagan image at the temple that causes desolation just as the incoming antichrist will do. It was on that basis that God decided to have that first temple destroyed completely since Manasseh had desecrated it.

3. Prophet Jonah was the shadow figure (forerunner) of Jesus Christ in the Old Testament who undertook his prophetic ministry around 777 B.C. Prophet Jonah is hence associated with the number 777. He arose from the shadow and demise of Prophet Elisha. His preaching radiated such great power and authority that turned the city of Nineveh as the rising super power of that time up side down within 3 days only (read the book of Jonah). Jonah was the prophetic force behind the restoration of the lost territories of Israel in the reign of King Jeroboam II of Israel between 782 BC and 741 BC as written in II Kings 14:25. Jonah related with God more or less as his own father and God loved him more or less as His own son. He volunteered to die save occupants of the ship and was raised to life after three days just like Jesus Christ. Jesus compared himself with Jonah as his forerunner in the Old Testament as far as his earthly ministry, death and resurrection was concerned in Mathew 12; 38-41, Luke 11; 29-32. Jesus will also oversee the restoration of the lost territories of Israel just like prophet Jonah when he comes to rule as the king of kings and Lord of Lords. We can therefore correctly associate Jesus Christ with the number 777 just like Jonah as our commander-in-chief, Lord of the Sabbath and fountain of life.

The more we know where we came from the more we know where we are going. You are cordially invited to visit my face book home page for more information and messages. Feel free to share this truth with other brethren just as I received it free of charge from God.

Your brother in Christ

Eporu Ronald
Scientist & Minister of Bible Prophecy
Click to expand...

Mr_Truth · Jul 3, 2015

Not that I necessarily oppose the idea but please bear in mind that bartering may constitute taxable income and you may have to pay extra taxes on April 15th.

DennisTate · Jul 4, 2015

Mr_Truth said: ↑

Not that I necessarily oppose the idea but please bear in mind that bartering may constitute taxable income and you may have to pay extra taxes on April 15th.
Click to expand...

Yes............ this is exactly how the Canadian federal government has decided to deal with organizations like CalgaryDollars.ca/

We Canadians pay exactly the same rate of income tax when we earn a thousand Calgary Dollars..... as we do if we earned one thousand Canadian dollars.

The fact that organized barter can be a source of revenue for government........... is one way to get elected officials to take this idea more seriously and help the next President of the USA to approach this differently than FDR did during the Great Depression.

DennisTate · Aug 22, 2015

Mr_Truth said: ↑

Not that I necessarily oppose the idea but please bear in mind that bartering may constitute taxable income and you may have to pay extra taxes on April 15th.
Click to expand...

Yes........ this is important to keep in mind!

Apparently even some states are discussing this option though, in spite of the potential tax implications.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/17/pf/local_currency/index.htm?iid=F_Jump

Now, even state governments are exploring the option. Lawmakers in more than 10 states, including Virginia, Georgia, South Carolina, Idaho and Tennessee, have been circulating proposals to introduce alternative currencies -- many of which would be issued in the form of gold or silver coins.

The Constitution prohibits individual states from printing and issuing paper money as legal tender, but they are allowed to use coins as currency, said Gatch. Individual communities, however, are able to create their own currencies -- including paper notes. Anyone can do it -- as long as the money is easily distinguishable from U.S. dollars and values are tied to the U.S. dollar so that income remains taxable.

Fear factor: Francis Ayley, the founder of Life Dollars, a currency started in Bellingham, Wash., in 2004, said fear of a shortage of U.S. dollars and frustration with the growing wealth gap in the country are driving more people to his currency. Since a majority of the transactions occur online and funds are directly transferred between members, the supply of Life Dollars is unlimited, he said.

The number of people or businesses signed up to use the currency, or members as Ayley refers to them, had remained relatively stable at 250 to 350 for years. But in the past two years, membership has doubled to more than 700. The currency's use has expanded beyond Bellingham to Seattle, too, where 75 new members have signed on in the past six months. Ayley estimates that more than $1 million worth of transactions have been made so far.
Click to expand...

DennisTate · Oct 28, 2015

This is an intriguing way of looking at the mark of the beast:

https://www.morningstarministries.o...tins/1995/deliverance-mark-beast#.VjDcFbXNhy1

Taking the mark of the beast is not the sin that brings the judgment, but rather worshiping the beast. The mark is simply evidence that one has been worshiping him. Do you think that we will escape judgment if we refuse to take a mark, but live our lives according to the ways of the beast?

The mark of the beast is probably far more subtle than many have been led to believe, just as the mark of God is not something literal, but spiritual. Even if it is a literal mark, the only way that we will not take it is to have the mark of God's bondservants. This is the reason why the events of these times have been restrained by the four angels who are holding back the winds. However, they will not be held back forever--now is the time for us to get our houses in order.
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AlpinLuke · Oct 28, 2015

On the contrary, the Catholic citizens of the Vatican State [which is an independent sovereign country] don't use a CCD [Catholic Church Dollar], they use EURO, like in Italy.

Since the Vatican has always had a certain level of control of huge banks and financial institution, I don't know if they have thought to the idea to print their own money today.

DennisTate · Oct 31, 2015

AlpinLuke said: ↑

On the contrary, the Catholic citizens of the Vatican State [which is an independent sovereign country] don't use a CCD [Catholic Church Dollar], they use EURO, like in Italy.

Since the Vatican has always had a certain level of control of huge banks and financial institution, I don't know if they have thought to the idea to print their own money today.
Click to expand...

The group of people who published the articles that got me interested in Social Credit economic theory are zealous Catholics.

In Quebec they are called "White Berets" after the white hats that they wear as they go out distributing literature. I am certain that this group have been advocating that the Vatican print up a Vatican currency unit of some type for decades now.

http://www.michaeljournal.org/lincolnkennedy.htm

Abraham Lincoln and John F. Kennedy
Two great presidents of the United States Assassinated for the cause of justice
français

by Melvin Sickler

AlpinLuke · Oct 31, 2015

DennisTate said: ↑

The group of people who published the articles that got me interested in Social Credit economic theory are zealous Catholics.

In Quebec they are called "White Berets" after the white hats that they wear as they go out distributing literature. I am certain that this group have been advocating that the Vatican print up a Vatican currency unit of some type for decades now.

http://www.michaeljournal.org/lincolnkennedy.htm

Abraham Lincoln and John F. Kennedy
Two great presidents of the United States Assassinated for the cause of justice
français

by Melvin Sickler
Click to expand...

May be ... but in the Vatican State there is a giant financial power: the IOR [Vatican Bank]. The IOR is interested in controlling EURO more than issuing its own currency unit. An "arm" of the financial [and not only financial] power of the Roman Church is the "Opus Dei" [Work of God]. Also the Opus Dei doesn't seem to be very interested in creating a new currency ...

DennisTate · Nov 11, 2015

AlpinLuke said: ↑

May be ... but in the Vatican State there is a giant financial power: the IOR [Vatican Bank]. The IOR is interested in controlling EURO more than issuing its own currency unit. An "arm" of the financial [and not only financial] power of the Roman Church is the "Opus Dei" [Work of God]. Also the Opus Dei doesn't seem to be very interested in creating a new currency ...
Click to expand...

True.......... but a massive shift in thinking is coming that will be centered in Jerusalem.......... but will be influenced greatly from Rome.........… if........ Rome does not disqualify themselves by drawing too close to the terribly corrupt and violent Palestinian political leadership.

Eporu Ronald Alfred

Kakira Deliverance Church,
P.O. Box 3191, Kakira, Jinja, Uganda

......

Dear brethren,
I salute you in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ!

RE: SHARING NEW DISCOVERIES OF THE TRUTH IN BIBLE PROPHECY CONCERNING THE IMMINENT HEALING AND UNITY OF THE CHURCH

I am mesmerized by the truth in bible prophecy that the Spirit of God has been revealing over the recent years. Secret things belong to God and those that are revealed belong to us and our children... (Deut 29: 29).

1. King Cyrus the great ruled his country 555 years Before Christ i.e. from 576 BC to 530 BC and authorised the rebuilding of the second temple in Jerusalem. Cyrus of the Old Testament is hence associated with the number 555 and is the shadow figure of incoming Cyrus II of the New Testament. You may learn more about his history from the internet and scriptures. This new truth enables us to identify the leadership of the world that will rebuild the temple in Jerusalem as prophesied in book of Isaiah before the rise of antichrist. Cyrus II is coming to revive the evangelical/Pentecostal church in Jerusalem and restore the headquarters of the church in same city where the church was born. He is set to strip Babylon of the vessels of the temple and the name of the Lord God and transfer that crown back to Jerusalem thus leaving Babylon naked. Cyrus will rebuild the temple in Jerusalem in fulfilment of the prophecy of Jesus as written in the book of John 2:18-23 and the prophecy of Isaiah as written in chapters 40, 41, 45 and 47 of the book of Isaiah. Jesus regarded the temple as the symbol of his own body while saying that he had the power to lay it down on the first day (1st millennium) and rebuild or raise it up on the 3rd day (3rd millennium). Remember that one day in the eyes of God is the same as one thousand years (millennium) as stated in book of 2 Peter 3:8. Rebuilding of the temple is thus associated with unification of the church.

Cyrus II will rebuild the temple in honour of our lord Jesus Christ. The temple will be the unifying (rallying) point of the world wide evangelical church as the original headquarters of the church. Psalms133 denotes that there is such a powerful anointing that comes along with unity among brethren. Unification of the whole body of Jesus Christ will make the church so powerful that she will overrun the world within a short time before the return of our lord Jesus Christ. A divided church is a powerless church whereas a united church is a powerful church. The church can only be able to fulfil her ultimate mission of revealing Jesus to the world once we get united as one body of Jesus Christ following his last prayer for his disciples as written in John 17:20-23.

Cyrus II will erase that false image of Jesus that the counterfeit and Idolatrous state church of Babylon has been projecting around the world and revive the original church that projects the true brilliant image of Jesus Christ. Haggai 2:9 says that the glory of the latter church (temple) will be greater than the glory of the former church (temple).The rise of Cyrus will also usher in the ultimate fulfilment of the prophecy of Joel 2:28 where God intends to pour out His Spirit on all flesh in these last days. The era of Cyrus brings the gentile period of grace to its close and leads to the restoration of the Jewish period of grace and salvation.

2. King Manasseh was the shadow figure (forerunner) of the antichrist in the Old Testament who ruled over Jerusalem exactly 666 years Before Christ i.e. from 697 BC to 642 BC. (2 chronicle 33: 1-2 and 2 kings 21: 1-17). Antichrist is associated with the number 666 as written in the book of Revelation 13:18. Manasseh was the most evil king to have ever ruled over the city of Jerusalem and kingdom of Judah.

Manasseh is reported to have killed so many innocent people in Jerusalem that the streets of Jerusalem were flowing with blood; he worshiped pagan idols and stars; he built pagan alters for idols and stars in the very courtyards of the temple; he sacrificed his sons to idols; he consulted diviners and mediums; he even set up an abominable pagan image at the temple that causes desolation just as the incoming antichrist will do. It was on that basis that God decided to have that first temple destroyed completely since Manasseh had desecrated it.

3. Prophet Jonah was the shadow figure (forerunner) of Jesus Christ in the Old Testament who undertook his prophetic ministry around 777 B.C. Prophet Jonah is hence associated with the number 777. He arose from the shadow and demise of Prophet Elisha. His preaching radiated such great power and authority that turned the city of Nineveh as the rising super power of that time up side down within 3 days only (read the book of Jonah). Jonah was the prophetic force behind the restoration of the lost territories of Israel in the reign of King Jeroboam II of Israel between 782 BC and 741 BC as written in II Kings 14:25. Jonah related with God more or less as his own father and God loved him more or less as His own son. He volunteered to die save occupants of the ship and was raised to life after three days just like Jesus Christ. Jesus compared himself with Jonah as his forerunner in the Old Testament as far as his earthly ministry, death and resurrection was concerned in Mathew 12; 38-41, Luke 11; 29-32. Jesus will also oversee the restoration of the lost territories of Israel just like prophet Jonah when he comes to rule as the king of kings and Lord of Lords. We can therefore correctly associate Jesus Christ with the number 777 just like Jonah as our commander-in-chief, Lord of the Sabbath and fountain of life.

The more we know where we came from the more we know where we are going. You are cordially invited to visit my face book home page for more information and messages. Feel free to share this truth with other brethren just as I received it free of charge from God.

Your brother in Christ

Eporu Ronald
Scientist & Minister of Bible Prophecy
Click to expand...

DennisTate · Feb 3, 2016

mihapiha said: ↑

I may misunderstand the point of this topic, but I do feel like I want to broaden my previous statement.

Most large companies have their own currencies. They give you points (or what ever they call it) you as a customer collect. With the fake currency you then can purchase something in their store. It shouldn't be too hard to think of an example somewhere near you.

Then you have the next step where a company produces an actual physical currency like Disney and they call it "Disney Dollar" or something like that. This is more costly obviously than keeping the currency on a card or an account.

The issue with all these is that it's hard to trade those currencies or the value of these currencies against another currency. The product market is therefore quite limited, especially since few people are willing to buy Disney Dollars who don't happen to live near to a Disney theme park.

You have to keep in mind that no currency in the world has any intrinsic value. If your stuck on an island without people you'll notice that one million dollars or 10 pounds of gold doesn't help you. So the value of any currency is determent only by people and what we believe the currency is worth. But in fact, every currency is worthless.

If you keep that in mind, the difference between currencies is therefore only the trust people have in a currency. If for some reason a billion people lost trust in the US Dollar, the currency would be worthless.

If any church therefore creates their own currency, is completely irrelevant. The question is whether they can create enough trust in a value of the currency for people to actually use it. They basically face the same problem countries face upon creation. Some countries like East-Timor choose to print their own currency, but use American coins in order to establish the value. Montenegro decided not to use their own currency at all, and the country is just using the Euro without being part of the EU. Bosnia decided to make their own currency called the Bosnian Mark, which was value wise based on the German Mark, which people understood value wise.

So the question I have in my mind is not whether a church establishes a currency or not, but can they establish enough believe and trust in the currency for people to actually value it.
Click to expand...

I am hoping that large and small churches will soon become leaders in a massive, peaceful and lawful economic revolution that will both boost as well as positively transform the world economy?!

http://www.politicalforum.com/polit...national-wealth-must-occur-order-finance.html
A massive reevaluation of national wealth must occur in order to finance....
..... the shift over to a truly green and sustainable economy!

I just got back a brilliant summary of the numbers for the national wealth of the world's leading economies but.......
... it is apparent to me that we must look at these numbers and rethink the entire formula....... if we wish to finance the shift over to a truly green, truly sustainable economy.... and do it with the minimum amount of economic, political and social upheaval?!

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