Is this a similarity between “moderate” Muslims and “moderate” Nazis, or not?

The approach of “moderate” Muslims who are not participating in the Jihad war, seems to effectively be like a German in 1943 who would have said: "I'm a Nazi and I wholeheartedly approve of the texts that Hitler and others are, in their own words, specifically using to justify the Holocaust, but I'm NOT actively participating in the Holocaust myself - but I defend those texts, and I steadfastly refuse to change those texts, and I approve of those texts 100% because they are from god no less." So are both effectively enabling the atrocities to continue, because of their endorsement of the very underlying texts that are used by other to justify the atrocities?

Question: what are your thoughts on the comparison that I listed above, and more importantly, why do you think that way?
My opinion is that it does raise some troubling questions for “moderate” Muslims, no doubt.

Have a great day.

 

One could draw a loose comparison. But muslims cannot change their Koran. They are stuck with it. The hope lies in interpretation perhaps, muslims being allowed to interpret in a way that allows them to relate differently with the modern world they have to live it. Although the world only had problems with them lately, when we started treading on their soil and interfering in their business. We got em riled up, and now we want to blame it all on them. LOL. We are good at that.

 

Regarding ISIS: what we did "wrong" was not allow them to practice their Sharia Law - we removed our troops from Iraq, they they want Sharia, not democracy, and are Sunni supremacists. We can't NOT do that. So it's Mohammad's fault, not our fault.

Regarding Paris slaughter at Charlie Hebdo: it was retaliation for violating Sharia blasphemy laws regarding Mohammad. So it's Mohammad's fault, not our fault (unless of course we change who we are an get rid of free speech - ain't gunna happen!)

 

Nazism wasn't a religion, but a political ideology and its applications saw anyway differences. Remember that at Nuremberg not all Nazi leaders had condemned to death or just to imprisonment [Hans Fritzsche went away acquitted ...].

Then the nature of Nazism was extremist in its own nature, to give value to your comparison you should first define a standard for a religion, then you should define the limits beyond which a religion can be defined "extremist" because of its own nature.

 

You point out another similarity, though we are not sure whether you meant to. To wit: Islam is a religion and a political ideology, with rules and prescriptions for everything in life, from cradle to grave, from nutrition to crime and punishment, from laws to inheritances, relations between men and women and between tribes and other religions, it is almost all covered. And this characteristic of Islam is what makes it rub so uncomfortably against its neighbors. We thought at one point that its political ideology dimension would be an angle to ban it by, but we're not seeing any headway at all being made in that direction.

 

Here's what we observe over and over: Muslims who are seen as moderate are always quoting the Qur'an from the early days when Mohammed had no power and was trying to appease and persuade and cajole people into following him through the gentle and humanitarian-sounding things he said at that point. They do a pretty good job of fooling people with this routine. Unsuspecting and undereducated non-Muslims fall for it all the time. And of course the radicals quote from the part of Islam and the Qur'an which came later, when he had some weight to throw around.

But it's the same book. No getting around that. Either of these factions could go either way at any time. Nobody has to renounce anything and the train keeps rolling down the tracks.

 

It's always a good idea to lump the non-extremists of a group with the extremists, thus vilifying the whole group, because it makes it easier to kill them and take away their human rights.

 

Is this a similarity between “moderate” Muslims and “moderate” Nazis, or not?

Of course there is a similarity.

And there is a similarity between 'moderate' Muslims and extremists.

ALL MUSLIMS ARE OBLIGATED TO PERFORM JIHAD AND DAWAH. (Google it.)

The major difference between them is that the extremist Muslims want to use the 'sword' to achieve global domination. And the want it sooner rather than later.

The 'moderates' are content to use guile, cunning, political and non-violent methods to bring about global conquest.

What is unnoticed by many is how the two work together as Good Muslim vs Bad Muslim.

We will see more examples of so-called moderates stepping into America's attempts to solve the extreme Muslim problem, as if the moderates were harmless.

Nonsense.

The moderates allowed into the good graces of America's inner power circles will then use that enviable position to use their non-violent methods to achieve the exact same goal as the extremists.

Conquest of America.

A Trojan Horse strategy.

 

LOLOLOL.. Where do you come up with this stuff?

 

You think that radical islam wanting to attack the US and others who have invaded their holy lands did this in a vacuum? Do you know what caused all of this? Our meddling, our acting like a damned empire, with a culture that we didn't take the time to understand. We finally ran into a people, that because of their religious beliefs, would not go gently into that good night. We stirred up a hornets nest, and constantly poke it, to keep the swarms alive. Fact is, we have already done so much in the middle east, that the radical islam is not going to die down, or die out. Even if we pulled out, kept our noses completely out of their affairs, and our troops off of their land, it would take a generation or two for the waters to calm down, for we have stirred those waters up far too much.

In so far as ISIS or ISIL or whatever the hell they are being called today, our actions also helped to create that group. Iraq was a secular nation, under Saddam, who ruled with an iron fist, which is the only thing those people understand, but it was also ran by Sunnis. After we totally screwed up that nation, we allowed (*)(*)(*)(*)es into power, and what did they do? Well, anyone should have expected what happened, but we either didn't care, or we are just too stupid to take the time to understand Iraq.

The great mistake made with Islam, is first meddling in their business, invading their nations, stomping all over their holy land, in the interest of big business. For that is what drove it. The next mistake that everyone made, is allowing muslims into the west, in such great numbers, and not understanding that they would bring their 8th century mindsets with them, as well as the most dangerous religion ever to exist, once that Christianity lost its great power by being the state religion of an empire. This linking arms and singing cumbaya, the fantasy of multiculturalists, is only possible when you have people that are not so averse to one another when it comes to religion, or other beliefs. That muslims are still mentally in the 8th century is a huge problem, especially when you add the Koran, which clearly is not suited for the modern world. It's a book for barbarians, not cultured civilized people. The same can be said of the OT, but only if it was being followed to the letter the way muslims follow the Koran. But Judaism evolved away from that, as Christianity evolved out of its brutal history. Islam has to do that, but given the cultures involved, it may be impossible.

If you want to see just how dangerous, and how powerful a religion can be to affect behavior, just look at Islam. If we had left those people alone, instead of doing what America has developed a bad habit in doing, meddling in the affairs of others on behalf of big business and banking, we would not be in the position we are in today. But this time, we picked the wrong cultures to meddle in, to impose our will upon. And it will cost trillions more, and American lives as there is no end in sight in our war on terror. It should be called a war on the people who refused to allow us to meddle in their affairs and invade their countries, for that is exactly what it is. But if you called it what it was, well, it might be harder to support it. LOL.

Plus, they have a god who is on their side in their minds, in fighting these immoral infidels, who allow same sex marriage, who live lives like they did in Sodom, who don't respect the holy lands of the muslims. And who try to tell them what to do.

In America, if you disrespect someone, we just toss it off, in most cases. In an Islamic culture, if you disrespect their beliefs, they will (*)(*)(*)(*)ing kill your ass. And you know what? It wasn't that long ago that we were just like that. Think of the duels of an earlier time. But today, we respect no one, but the mighty green dollar bill. We don't respect the religion of others, and in islam, that will get you killed, and they will wage a war on you. And that is what is going on. All over this little word called "respect". If you cannot respect islam, then why in the hell did we allow them to move into the west in such great numbers? Because of human stupidity, that's what. All of this is due to the stupidity of Europe and America, and not understanding muslim culture.

 

That's right, a religious/political ideology. For much of the muslim world, they are one in the same. And this ideology is not one that seems to be able to fit in with the modern secularized world. They are more like martians than earthlings, given the great difference between their ideological beliefs and those of a modern secularized world. And this pertains to even the so called moderates. A moderate muslim is still an extreme when compared to the modern world. And that is the problem.

And attempt outside of islam is seen as an attack on islam, when it comes to changing their world views. And I just do not think change from within has much of a chance either. For the Koran is the law. And I doubt if you can get enough muslims to agree that they will no longer interpret the Koran in another way in order to get along with the infidels. Someone trying to do that, would have a target on their back.

 

Those that risk their lives by speaking against fundamentalists are there, but they are few.

 

You're not far from reality. More I know Muslims [overall from Middle East and Africa] more I think it's a "political religion" [I'm changing my attitude about Islam, to be clear].

A couple of days ago I was showing to a friend of mine from Senegal [a Muslim guy] pictures of a barrack on an Alpine pick, built by the Alpines to control the borderlines. I told him about how Italian Army controlled the borderline taking over the picks in WWI ... curiously enough he was really interested in knowing if still today Italian Army has got similar borderline bases.

If such an interest was oriented to find a way to pass the borderline with Switzerland ... best wishes to my Muslim friend ... for his last journey!

 

Or, or, it gets the non-extremists to condemn the extremists or leave the religion....since they both chose the very same texts.

 

Instead of a magic place like Neverland, or Hell, or Heaven, or Narnia, he prefers to reside in a place we call "reality".

 

You're forgetting about BEFORE 9/11.

Also, US forces were out of Iraq when ISIS grew......they want SHARIA LAW, my man, come on, please realize that. They are clearly driven by Mohammad's example to establish Islamic Law, per the Qur'an (fight until there is no religion but for Allah, the Qur'an says.)

 

Sort of ... Saudi Arabia's young clerics are better educated than in the past.. They have concluded and announced that much of what passes for Islam is actually a carry-over of ancient tribal practices from pagan days. They have been outspoken. In general the Saudis are aggressively opposed to the terrorists.. Read the Arab newspapers.

- - - Updated - - -

You sure are an instant pundit when it comes to Islam and Muslims.

 

Please stop justifying terrorism.

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Your rebuttals never seem to have any substance to them, other than to attack the messenger....that's because ISIS is indeed CORRECT about the Qur'an, it says to wage warfare to spread the law of their god.

 

Apostasy, or at least speaking against Islam, is punishable by death in Islamic law....so clearly RELIGION is the problem here. Can we agree that religion is the problem, Reva?

 

No.. ISIS has debauched and shamed the Sunnis.. The Koran does not say to make war to spread Islam..

 

The muslim opposition to sexual immorality is correct.

Their methods of opposition to this is what is wrong today.
If they acted as Jesus had told them, they would just state the truth about this behavior, use fats aboiut Welfare and singlr mothers, and abuse for the kids being raised.
They would argue that crime follows immediately.

 

I never said they didn't want sharia. But one of the things that created them were the shia being in power, and ISIS is sunni. Apparently these two Islamic sects cannot get along very well.

But if we had stayed the hell out of Iraq. let saddam remain in power, ISIS would not exist today. So, our actions helped to create isis. Saddam was doing quite well in keeping all his enemies under control. Sometimes the sort of gov't you see in the middle east is the only kind that will work. That is why they have it. Iraq needed someone like saddam to give some sort of stability to Iraq, and we went in and screwed that up. Our fault.

 

Oh, so you understand Muslim culture?

Then you will attest to the truth of these statements.

The Goal of Islam is to make all of humanity submit to Shariah Law.

"Every accommodation non-Muslims make for Muslims moves our culture, our beliefs, and our legal systems one step closer to Sharia law."

 

Nonsense .. they don't have one legal system.

 

Six years ago Dr. Peter Hammond published a remarkable book which included a statistical study of the correlation between Muslim to non-Muslim population ratios and the transition from conciliatory Islam to fascist Islam. The stages are the same in 2011 but the demographics have changed to show an alarming progression. Many European nations and the U.S. are on the cusp of moving to a higher bracket. The demographics change but the story is the same. First comes the taqiyya and the kitman; then comes the Sword of Islam. Imam Rauf, the Ground Zero Mosque promoter, is the current master of taqiyya. He has gulled everyone from Bloomberg to Maureen Dowd of the NYT -- who fanaticizes over male Muslims. Expect doppelgangers of Khomeini for stage 5 and Islamic PEACE at last.

Stage 1. Establish a Beachhead

Population density à 2% (US, Australia, Canada).

Muslims are conciliatory, deferential but request harmless special treatment (foot bath facilities, removal/elimination of that which is offensive to delicate Muslim sensibilities - like walking dogs near Mosques).

Stage 2. Establish Outposts

Population density 2% - 5% (UK, Germany, Denmark).

At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs. A recent example is that of Sheikh Abdullah el-Faisal who is back in Jamaica after being kicked out of the UK. Sound harmless? Read on:

The dispatch, dated February 2010, warns that that Jamaica could be fertile ground for jihadists because of its underground drug economy, marginalized youth, insufficient security and gang networks in U.S. and British prisons.

Stage 3. Establish Sectional Control of Major Cities.

Population density 5% - 10% (France, Sweden, Netherlands).

First comes the demand for halal food in supermarkets, and the blocking of streets for prayers; then comes the demand for self rule (within their ghettos) under Sharia. When Muslims approach 10% of the population the demands turn to lawlessness. In Paris, we are already seeing car-burnings. Any criticism of Islam results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam. In France which may be over the 10% range, the minority Muslim populations live in ghettos, within which they are 100% Muslim, and within which they live by Sharia Law. The national police do not even enter these ghettos. There are no national courts, nor schools, nor non-Muslim religious facilities. In such situations, Muslims do not integrate into the community at large. The children attend madrassas. They learn only the Koran. To even associate with an infidel is a crime punishable with death.

Stage 4. Establish Regional Control.

Population density 20% - 50% (Europe 2020?).

After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues.

Stage 5. Total Control, Brutal Suppression, and Dhimmitude.

Population density > 50%.

Unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and jizya, the tax placed on infidels. As Muslim population levels increase and all infidels cower in submission there will peace at last. Dar al-Islam is achieved and everyone lives under Sharia and the Koran is the only word.


http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2011/05/the_five_stages_of_islam.html#ixzz3Pwzkdhze