yes, assault rifles, even semi versions ARE more dangerous

but so what? "regular" guns are plenty dangerous enough, and explosives, poison, fire, any number of things are MUCH more of a threat to masses of people than any gun will ever be.

The military sort of rifle, by design, is many times more capable of sustained, accurate, highly penetrative fire than any other sort of firearm. If that ability scares you, tough stuff. We need to have at LEAST a silenced, short barreled, takedown (ie, concealable) 223 semi-auto rifle to effectively resist Big Brother. If you have that much in the way of armament, you can get into places where you can do some REAL damage, as in billions of $, and make BB WISH you'd been restricted to nothing more than the damage possible with a rifle.

 

really? so if you and I are 1200 meters away and you have an "assault rifle" and I have my 338 Lapua Magnum Bolt gun with a 24X US Optics scope on it which weapon is more dangerous. Your assault rifle to me, or my long range target interdiction device to you?

If you want to cause some real heartache for big brother what sort of weapon is better suited to cause all sorts of problems to governmental types


.223/556mm/545 etc isn't exactly highly penetrative IMHO

 

mine is, cause I don't have the stupidity problem that you have. i'll just wait until it gets dark, and then your bolt action will be wrapped around a tree, cause I wouldn't bother to do anything else with it. All I have to do is dodge to cover. you can't hit jack squat on a mover, beyond 400 yds. Nobody can, with any sort of rifle. that's why they've got belt feds and tracer ammo. All you, or anyone else can do with such a lame arsed rifle, at even 600 yds, HALF of your bs claim, is fire a few 'hail marys', TRYING to guess the lead required, while all I have to do is change direction and speed every 1-2 seconds. I can cover 100 yds like this in 30 seconds, and keep it up. Your lapua runs out of shots at 5 rds, and you need 5 seconds to reload it. If I choose to charge you, i'll be changing the range so much, so often, that you'll have to be guessing at holdover within a minute, too, especially at your bs claim of 1200 yds. Funny thing about real combat. People don't play according to your rules.

 

as you run, at nearly full speed, too. Nobody can gauge how much to lead a dodging, speed changing man, even at a mere 400 yds, much less at 600 yds. The bullet, all bullets, take at least 1/2 second to cover 500 yds. Men cover as much as 15 FEET in 1/2 second, at a dead run. If you misjudge the lead by even ONE foot, you miss. this is assuming that you can get tight groups, on a moving target, with no bullseye to aim at (which is a bs assumption in the first place).

A 10 second, 100 yd dash is 30 fps, feet per second. A very slow 20 second run of 100 yds is still 15 fps. With the range changing as the guy comes towards (or away from you) you have to add in elevation changes, along with the lead. So nobody is hitting a dodging man from more than 400 yds away, except by pure luck, with any rifle or scope. Go back to your video games.

 

If it's semiauto it's not an assault rifle.

 

you've been in a lot of gunfights? calling other posters "stupid" is rather lame. You spend all your life expecting someone is lining you up?


what rules-there's no rules in a gun fight except one-hit the other guy before he hits you and I won the one I was in

 

That's OK, I will just use my Ruger Range rifle with a 30 round magazine of .223 since it is not considered an assault weapon. Actually no rifle is at this time because the definition died with the ill conceived AWB that Clinton signed into law.

 

So what is your point here?

What guns should ordinary, law abiding citizens be restricted to?

 

Evidently the more powerful hunting rifles.

 

So an AK47 is more dangerous than an FN FAL because the AK47 is an Assault Rifle?

You do realise that Assault Rifles fire less powerful rounds, right?

 

For some individuals, common sense is uncommon.

 

No restrictions.

An FN FAL is as much of an assault rifle as a AK47.

Are you saying my AR10 isn't an assault rifle?

 

The FN FAL uses a full size rifle cartridge. By definition that makes it not an assault rifle.

An assault rifle is a select fire military rifle that uses an intermediate cartridge.

 

But wait, I'm totally concealed only 100 meters away and I have a Scorpid Velocity crossbow with a scope that features a speed rating of 425 feet per second, kinetic energy of up to 180 pounds per foot, and a draw weight of 165 pounds. It is absolutely silent and the bolt will go cleanly through a human body effortlessly leaving the victim dead on their feet without any indication of what direction the shot was fired from. I can kill and remain completely undetected simply disappearing after the shot.

Crossbow remain one of the most lethal of all sniper weapons even today.

 

actually that is not true and this is coming from a guy who was an Excalibur Xbow staff pro for years and ran an archery shop. They are not absolutely silent. and having shot a few dozen deer with all sorts of archery weapons-Crossbows, Longbows, recurve bows, compound bows, Its easy to see where the bolt or arrow came from. and the drop on even those fast crossbows is really bad. Plus if you miss, you are toast because trying to (*)(*)(*)(*) one of those things is pretty obvious.

 

There have been heated discussions about the difference between an "assault" rifle and a battle rifle in a lot of forums I've read. To ruffle as few feathers as possible, you're AR-10 would be called a battle rifle, because it fires a full power cartridge. Same with the FN.
Never mind that the AR-15 and AK variants have become the predominant rifles that are used by infantry in battle. Never mind that NATO, Russia and China have all changed to .22 cal. center fire "assault" rifles as the primary armament for soldiers.
In days gone by, the battle rifle was more capable against materiel. Vehicles have become better armored, so .30 cal isn't the scare it used to be.
In terms of general conflict, the smaller caliber assault rifles are more dangerous, because the shooter can carry more ammo to begin with, and deliver more accurate fire faster than he can with a .30 cal. If the range gets out around 400+ yards, the .30 cal full power round is the more reliable killer, when it does manage to connect.

 

The Germans invented the Assault Rifle (with the Sturmgewehr 44) because it was realised that most infantry combat took place within only a few hundred metres. As such they developed a weapon that used an intermediate cartridge (between a pistol and full size rifle cartridges in power). However, they also loved Maschinenpistolen (Submachine Guns in English) and so they gave the StG 44 select fire to choose between semiauto and full auto.

 

"assault" meant attacks on a fixed position. In many of the street fights in Stalingrad and other Russian cities, it was difficult to bring up heavy machine guns to suppress defensive fire while engineers could close within range of satchel charges or flamethrowers to destroy said positions. the "assault rifle" was designed to allow several soldiers to provide that suppressive fire that would allow comrades to get close enough to the fixed position to blow it up or incinerate it.

when anti gun loons talk about "assault weapons" they are changing the definition of assault from the military term (attacking a fixed position) to a legal definition of a criminal attack on another civilian. By definition, a selector switch is necessary for a carbine to be an "assault rifle"

 

I quess that one could consider my 9MM carbine an assault rifle

 

not by anyone who actually knows what an assault rifle is. I have seen the media call a 10-22 an "assault rifle" and a Colt Python a "semi automatic revolver" (no kidding)

 

But but BUT it looks like one of those scary black guns...

Now in all seriousness my 9mm carbine is a blast to shoot and has almost NO recoil and with the scarcity of 22 ammo is my now blinking gun.

 

we have three Rock River Arms 9mm carbines for steel matches (223 is too hard on the steel targets at close range). Great fun guns. I also have a couple of the Beretta carbines. equally fun but I can run the RRA faster due to the better trigger.

 

There are some bolt action rifles out there chambered for a high power cartridge like the 30-06 that can reach out and touch someone from 1,000 yards away. No AR or AK is capable of doing that.

 

Some of us actually can say "been there and done that."

Vietnam wasn't a video game and I doubt neither was Iraq or Afghanistan.

 

TERMINAL LEARNING OBJECTIVE. Given moving targets, range supplies, equipment, prepared shooters, and a suitable range coach moving target engagement with the service rifle or carbine so that all performance steps are accomplished, and all shooters achieve shooter proficiency per MCO 3574.2_.


b. ENABLING LEARNING OBJECTIVE.

1) Given moving targets, range supplies, equipment, prepared shooters, and a suitable range. Explain moving target engagement with the service rifle or carbine so that all performance steps are accomplished, and all shooters
achieve shooter proficiency per MCO 3574.2_.




(On slide #4)

4. METHOD/MEDIA. This lesson will be taught using the informal lecture method. I will be aided by a power point presentation.

5. EVALUATION. You will not be evaluated on this period of instruction.

6. SAFETY/CEASE TRAINING (CT) BRIEF. There is no safety brief associated with this lesson. (or give the brief)

(On slide #5)

TRANSITION: Are there any questions relating to how this lesson will be conducted? If not, let’s talk about the types of moving targets.

BODY ( 25 MIN)

(On slide #6)

1. TYPES OF MOVING TARGETS. ( 2 Min)

a. Steady Moving Target. This type of target moves in a consistent manner and is in continuous sight as it moves across your shooters field of vision. A walking or running individual is an example of this type of target. However, unless the enemy is completely unaware of your presence, this type of target is not likely to present itself.

(On slide #7)

b. Stop And Go Target. This type of target will appear and disappear during its movement due to intermittent cover. It will present itself for only a short period of time before reestablishing cover. An enemy moving from one position of cover to another is an example of a stop and go target. This enemy target is most vulnerable to
your fire at the beginning and end of their rush, as they must first gain momentum; then they must slow to avoid overrunning the cover.

(On slide #

TRANSITION: Now that we understand the types of moving targets can someone tell me what type of moving target continues moving in a consistent manner?
Answer: The steady moving target continues moving in a consistent manner.
We have learned about the types of moving targets now we need to cover the points of aim.

(On slide #9)

2. POINTS OF AIM FOR MOVING TARGETS. ( 10 Min)

a. Definition. When a shot is fired at a moving target, the target continues to move during the time of the bullet’s flight. For this reason, the point of aim must be in front of the target; otherwise, the shot will fall behind it.

(1) Lead. Lead is the distance in advance of the target that is required to engage the target when it is moving. Your shooter must use the proper points of aim to determine the correct lead to be placed on a moving target.

(On slide #10)

b. Factors Affecting Points Of Aim. The Factors that affect points of aim are the target’s range, speed, and angle of movement as well as the time of flight of the ammunition.

(1) Range. There is a time lag from the time a round is fired until the round impacts on the intended target. This time of flight could allow a target to move out of the bullet’s path if the round were fired directly at the target while it is moving. The time of flight increases as the range to the target increases. Therefore, the point of aim must be increased as the distance to the target increases.

(2) Speed. A greater point of aim will be required to engage a running person than a walking one because the running person will move a greater distance during the flight of the bullet.

(3) Angle Of Movement. The angle of target movement also affects the point of aim required for the correct target engagement. The angle of movement across your shooters line of sight relative to the flight of the bullet determines the type (amount) of points of aim. This system is the exact same system that you use to determine the value of a wind call. A diagonal wind (from 2 o’clock to 7 o’clock) would mean that you have a half value wind call, while a target moving diagonally across your front (45 degree angle) would mean that you cut your point of aim value in half.

(4) Time Of Flight. Depending on the weapon that is used to engage a moving target, the time of flight of the round to the target may be affected do to the different barrel lengths of the M16A4 and the M4A1 Carbine. Therefore, the amount of POA your shooter uses to hit the target will vary slightly between the two weapons. The reason for this is simple; the M4A1 Carbine has a 14½ in. barrel which produces a lower muzzle velocity of the round when it is fired. This causes the projectile to have a slower time of flight than the M16A4, which has a 20 in. barrel. A slower time of flight may cause the round to fall behind the target as it moves across your shooter’s line of sight. A round with a faster time of flight may have the opposite effect on the target; the round may pass in front of the target missing it completely.

(On slide #11)

c. Establishing Points Of Aim. To engage a moving target, a point of aim is established by placing a lead (offset aiming) in front of the moving target.

(1) 0 Points Of Aim. The tip of the front sight post or the tip of the chevron (when using the RCO) centered on the target is considered zero points of aim.

(2) ½ Point Of Aim. The front sight post or the tip of the chevron on the leading edge of the target is
considered 1/2 point of aim. This would be about 4 and 1/2 inches from the center of the target.

(3) 1 Point Of Aim. 4 and ½ inches in front of the leading edge of the target is considered one point of aim. The width of the target (9 inches) is the size of one point of aim. To determine where your aim point is your shooter can reference the size of the target in relation to their sight system and measure out the distance from the desired strike point of the round on the target. This method becomes increasingly important as the distance to the target increases and the points of aim increases.

(4) Additional Points Of Aim. The same units of measure can be applied off the target for holds of additional points of aim.






0 POA 1/2POA 1 POA


(On slide #12)

d. Points Of Aim Values. The determination of values in dealing with a moving target is directly transferable from
the skills that your shooter learned during the effects of weather class. A full value when determining points of aim means that your shooters target is moving directly across their front, while a half value would be applied to a target that is moving diagonally to them. When that is the case, your shooter can determine the point of aim if they have a full value target, and simply cut the distance to their aim point in half. If your shooter happens to have a target moving directly towards them or away from them, then they would treat it as a no value, and engage the target as if it was stationary.



(On slide #13)

e. Determining The Speed Of A Target. The speed of a moving target will increase the points of aim applied to it. Different speeds of targets will require different points of aim to be applied to engage the target.

(1) Slow Walking Target (Approximately 2 - 2.5 Mph).

(a) Points Of Aim. A slow walking target moving directly across your shooters line of sight requires no point of aim.

(b) Range. At a range of 25-100meters, no point of aim is required.

(On slide #14)

(2) Jogging or Slow Running Target (Approximately 5 Mph).

(a) Points Of Aim. Different ranges require different points of aim for a jogging or slow running target.

1 25 Meters. At 25 meters, no point of aim is required.

2 50 Meters. At 50 meters, half a point of aim (4 and ½ inches from center or leading edge) in front of the target is required.

3 100 Meters. At a range of 100 meters, one point of aim ( 9 inches from center of the target, or 4 and ½ inches in front of the leading edge) in front of the target is required.

(On slide #15)

(3) Running Target (Approximately 10 Mph).

(a) Points Of Aim. Different ranges require different points of aim for a jogging or slow running target.

1 25 Meters. At a range of 25 meters hold one-half point of aim ahead of the target in the direction in which the target is moving.

2 50 Meters. At a range of 50 meters, hold one point of aim ahead of the target in the direction in which the target is moving. At this distance, the points of aim may need to be increased to effectively engage the target.

3 100 Meters. At a range of 100 meters, hold 2 and 1/2 points of aim ahead of the target in the direction in which the target is moving. 2 and ½ points of aim is 21 inches from the center of the target.

(On slide #16)

TRANSITION: Now that we understand the points of aim can someone tell me how many points of aim need to be held to effectively engage a jogging or slow running target at 50 meters?
Answer: The point of aim to effectively engage a jogging or slow running target at 50 meters is 1/2.
We have learned about the points of aim now we need to cover the methods for engaging moving targets.

(On slide #17)

3. METHODS FOR ENGAGING MOVING TARGETS. ( 10 Min)

a. Tracking Method. In this method, the shooter` will "track" or follow the target with their front sight post while maintaining sight alignment and an aiming point on or ahead of (leading) the target until the shot is fired.

(1) Proper Sight Picture. Sight picture is the aiming point in relation to the target while maintaining sight alignment (when points of aim are established in moving target engagement, the sights will not be centered on the target). The tracking method is used for a target moving at a steady pace over a fairly well determined route.

(On slide #1

(2) Steps To Perform The Tracking Method.

(a) Present The Weapon. Present the weapon to the target.

(b) Establish Points Of Aim. Swing the muzzle of the weapon through the target (from the rear of the target to the front) to the desired lead (point of aim). The point of aim may be on the target or some point in front of the target depending upon the target's range, speed, and angle of movement.

(c) Tracking The Target. Track the target while maintaining focus on the front sight post and acquiring the desired sight picture. It may be necessary to shift the focus between the front sight post and the target while acquiring sight picture, but the focus must be on the tip of the front sight post when the shot is fired. As your shooter progresses to 50 meters and beyond, this will become more and more difficult. Extensive training on this technique is required to make it successful.

(d) Engage The Target. When sight picture is acquired, engage the target while maintaining the proper points of aim.

(e) Follow-Through. Ensure that your shooter follows through so the desired lead is maintained as the bullet exits the muzzle. They should
continue to track the target which will also enable a second shot to be fired on target, if necessary.

(On slide #19)

b. Ambush Method. The ambush method is used when it is difficult to track the target with the Service rifle/carbine, as in the prone, sitting, or any supported position. With this method, the weapon is aimed ahead of the target along its path, allowed to remain stationary, and fired when the target reaches a predetermined engagement point. The engagement point is determined based on the lead required to effectively engage the target. With the sights settled, the target moves into the predetermined engagement point creating the desired sight picture. The trigger is moved to the rear simultaneously with the establishment of sight picture.


(On slide #20)

(1) Steps To Perform The Ambush Method.

(a) Present The Weapon. Present the weapon on a selected aiming point ahead of the target.

(b) Sight Alignment. Obtain sight alignment on the aiming point. Your shooter will hold their sight alignment until the target moves into their vision and the desired sight picture is established.

(c) Sight Picture. When sight picture is acquired, engage the target.

(d) Follow-Through. Ensure your shooter follows through so the sights are not disturbed as the bullet exits the muzzle.

(On slide #21)

TRANSITION: Now that we understand the methods for engaging moving targets can someone tell me the last step of both methods?
Answer: The last steps of both methods are to follow-through
on the target.
We have learned about the methods for engaging moving targets now we need to cover the application of the fundamentals.

(On slide #22)

4. APPLICATION OF THE FUNDAMENTALS WHILE ENGAGING ( 3 Min) MOVING TARGETS.

a. Importance. The engagement of moving targets is a perishable skill that must be practiced frequently if it is to be maintained. It is also a difficult skill to acquire; the shooter must practice to develop the skill to calculate the lead and fire the shot while maintaining the proper lead. The fundamentals of marksmanship must be practiced and applied when engaging moving targets. Sight alignment, sight picture, trigger control, and follow-through all play key roles in successfully engaging moving targets. The fundamentals must be instinctively applied, allowing concentration on tracking the target and applying lead. The fundamentals must be applied simultaneous to the application of the lead.
(On slide #23)

(1) Sight Alignment. Sight alignment remains unchanged for accurate engagement of a moving target. The most common error when engaging moving targets is the tendency to focus on the target rather than the tip of the front sight post.

(2) Sight Picture. When engaging moving targets, sight picture is the aiming point in relation to the target while maintaining sight alignment. For both the ambush and tracking methods, sight picture is changed from the normal center of mass picture based on range, speed, and angle of movement of the target.

(3) Trigger Control. With any target engagement, trigger control is critical to firing shots without disturbing sight alignment or sight picture.

(4) Follow-Through. When engaging moving targets, follow-through is applied to ensure the sights are not disturbed as the bullet exits the muzzle. When using the tracking method, tracking of the target is continued while following through with the shot process so the desired lead is maintained as the
bullet exits the muzzle. Continuing to track also enables a second shot to be fired on target if necessary. Concentration should be on continuing to track while applying the fundamentals. The application of the fundamentals must be instinctive so your shooter can concentrate on applying the proper lead and continuing the movement of the Service rifle/carbine in completion of the shot.

(5) Stability. To engage moving targets using the tracking method, the weapon must be moved smoothly and steadily as the target moves. A stable position is necessary to steady the sights while tracking. Additional rearward pressure may be applied to the pistol grip to help steady the weapon during tracking and trigger control.







(On slide #24)

TRANSITION: Now that we understand the application of the fundamentals while engaging moving targets can someone tell me how sight alignment changes?
Answer: Sight alignment does not change during the engagement of a moving target.

(On slide #25)

SUMMARY: (2 MIN)

Unless the enemy on the battlefield is wounded they will be moving from covered position to covered position to gain ground on your shooters position. By ensuring your shooters understand the points of aim, methods of engaging moving targets, and the application of the fundamentals they will be able to incapacitate the threat while it is gaining ground instead of in hand to hand combat. Those of you with the Instructional Rating Forms please fill them out and place them at the back of the classroom.