Who's to Blame for the Mess in Iraq?

I don't fault Obama for this mess in Iraq, but he is responsible for it and he should take responsibility for it.

Former president Bush is the one to blame for getting us involved there, but I still won't fault him for what happened in the modern age.

 

You can think that if it makes you happy.

 

Dub... dub.... dub.... oh never mind.

The strange thing is, the Neo-Cons didn't really seem to care very much who was running the government there as long as they were willing to play ball. I remember slapping my forehead when hearing the gaffemaster Joe Biden suggest a strangely brilliant idea: allowing Iraq to break itself up into three pieces. But the Israelis veto'd that one real fast.... they really wanted that air corridor to disappear.

 

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I had to save this rather twisted bit of revisionist historical nonsense. An MIT (Massachusetts Institute of Technology) report says by the end of the Bush administration there were between; " 800,000 and 1.3 million “excess deaths” in this war as we approach its six-year anniversary." (source) and (source)
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And the Bin Laden Al Queda training camp was....where?

 

No one cares if you believe it or not but the majority of the Iraqi people preferred to live under the dictatorial rule of Saddam. Only deluded people would think that Iraq ever once became stabilised since 2003 - are you deluded?

 

The French and Brits they created the damn country in the first place...

 

In reality it's mostly these arrogant smart-arsed Ivy League college graduates (and the upper elite socio-economic equivalent of other nations) who form their entire range of perspectives while still safely cocooned inside the elitist college experience.

Then once they hit the 'real' world of doors open to them exclusively because they have an Ivy League degree and because most of them come from at least quasi-wealthy backgrounds with copious quantities of connections, they never alter those base perspectives. Yet these people become the advisers to the world's movers and shakers and yet nine tenths of the time their advice is based on the equivalent of dorm-room flights of fancy.

On the other hand -- as I have noted once or twice in the past -- I am a cynic's cynic . . .

 

And who gets the oil reserves? Who gives up turf so the Kurdish area isn't land locked?

 

It's you link that thinks it.

 

I watched Joe make that suggestion around 2003 or there about. But this is the first time since then I heard the Israelies veto'd it. Heck, Joe was laughed out of the building by both parties here. Neither the supporters or those against the Iraq War in Congress and shall I say the party faithful would go for breaking Iraq up into thirds.

But what is interesting about this blame game is at the moment Obama is doing what the American people want in Iraq and the American people do not approve of what he is doing. Only 35% of Americans want boots on the ground in Iraq and the president is doing his best not to put them there. The over whelming majority are saying no.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...rs_remain_cool_to_boots_on_the_ground_in_iraq

and yet only 32% approve of the president's handling of ISIS while 55% disapprove. His overall foreign policy approval numbers is down to 38.8% per RCP averages.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval_foreign_policy-2821.html

The problem is most Americans think ISIS is winning and we are losing. Only 18% of Americans think we are winning the war against ISIS.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...tics/may_2015/voters_see_isis_winning_in_iraq

On the blame game, Bush is responsible for everything up till 20 January 2009 and Obama after that date. It was Bush's decisions and actions up to 20 January 2009 that lead to the situation in Iraq up to that date and it was/is Obama decisions and action since that date that has let in the situation in Iraq as it stands today.

 

Trouble is the closest most of them ever get to the real world is their TV screens. A Cynic is a rational person who recognizes the world for what it is and understands that human nature pretty much precludes it ever getting much better. It is also why cynics tend to favor small governments as they understand that large governments are a force multiplier for human cupidity, stupidity, and capriciousness to say nothing of avarice, arrogance, and hubris.

 

We are in agreement . . . alas.

I'd honestly like to be wrong about this stuff.

 

Alas we have 9k years of recorded history that largely demonstrates we are right. Unfortunately the left refuses to learn from history and the rest f us gets to watch the endlessly repeated melodrama that ensues.

 

You are correct, the wars were said to stop ''enemies" or "threats" to the USA - those 'threats' were bogus and all intended to generate profits for wealthy elites. The real enemies are corporate elitists, their right wing stooges in Washington DC, and the gullible people who vote for them.

 

Utter liberal nonsense! There were MANY reasons for going to war with Iraq, not the least of which was to maintain the credibility of the UN, which issued 17 resolutions against Saddam which were all ignored! Now, if you wish to make the argument that we should quit such a feckless organization as the UN, I'd agree with you 100%! But if we are to remain, then enforcing our resolutions MUST be a part of it! Additionally, Saddam had committed numerous war crimes, not the least of which was his use of WMDs against his enemies in Iran and against his own people! Are you saying you prefer that the US ignore that kind of genocide as Obama is now ignoring the genocide against any non-Muslims by ISIS? How's that working out for you? Were Saddam's threats "bogus" when he invaded Kuwait, launched unprovoked scud missiles against Saudi Arabia and Israel? Wasn't his actions in igniting hundreds of Kuwaiti oil wells the equivalent of environmental terrorism? Or perhaps you would have no objection to leaving Saddam and his sadistic sons to continue operating the rape rooms and torture chambers in his tyrannical dictatorship? Please identify which of those "corporate elitists" you despise so much who encouraged THOSE actions which forced us to act AFTER GW Bush obtained an almost unanimous consensus among Congress to launch the invasion?
What we're seeing today with ISIS is the result of Obama's incompetence and weakness in his decision to remove all troops from Iraq after we had already won the war and installed a functioning democracy in a region of the world which had NEVER known it before! And it WOULD have held together with a little effort on our part, just as we were able to accomplish the same thing in Germany, Italy, Japan, and So. Korea after those wars! That is the incomparable failure of OBAMA!! NO ONE ELSE!!!
Why is it that liberals simply refuse to learn from history?

Secondly,

 

The US certainly wasn't upset when Saddam poisoned the Kurds at Halabjah.. Heck, we provided the gas... and it was less deadly than what Churchill and Arthur Harris did to the Iraqis and Kurds in 1920.

Hard to justify gross hypocrisy of make excuses about conservatives versus liberals... when I a third party is promoting "regime change" and getting the US to pay for it.

 

IMO this not minding other Americans staying there forever with endless deployments is indicative of the overall "hooray for me, the hell with you" narcissistic non-empathetic pattern of personality of so many on the right. They are so pro-troops that as long as they can remain armchair warriors and not send their family members off to war, it's fine to cheer the Neocons, chickenhawks and warmongers on in their constant drumbeat for war and occupation.

 

The ultimate blame has to lie with Bush jr.

 

First of all, Huffpo is a propaganda machine and Zogby is a Muslim apologist. But the fact is, Obama made no effort to secure a worthwhile SOFA and this is at his feet. All the money and lives of our soldiers wasted now because Obama dropped the ball and enabled the rise of ISIS. Now, even Baghdad is about to fall. The blood and maiming of our soldiers is on his hands.

Whether you agree or not with Bush's invasion of Iraq, it was a success and they had a shot at a real future. Obama destroyed it.

 

Where is your proof that Obama never attempted to secure a SOFA

 

No, Bush mostly gets the blame for using intel from a source that he was warned was not credible to trick Congress and the American people into thinking that Iraq posed a threat. Starting a war using intel you know o be false is definately something that deserves a lot of the blame.

 

over $2 Trillion were unaccounted for during the Rebuilding of Iraq. I'm sure Halliburton got a big chunk of that. When Donald Rumsfeld was interviewed about this "accounting anomaly" he literally said "I don't know".

 

There's also that little tiny itsy bitsy teeny weeny fib that Iraqi oil would pay for the war.

 

And that also helps prove that they just wanted the oil. They already knew they were going to get it. There was no indication that the government of Iraq was going to be willing to sign any oil deal. So, that points to them planning on forcing an oil deal, which backfired.