Does anyone know the justification for a Pope?

Sincere question: I'm a Christian, but I'm not Catholic. I don't know why we have a Pope. Is there something in the Bible about establishing a (divine?) leader in Rome? Where, when, and how was it decided to establish the papacy?

 

Supposedly Jesus made Peter the leader of the church in his absence. Peter was the first Pope.

 

Well, ya got an justification for the Pope....now if we could get a justification for why all Americans have to pay for his visit....

(the "he's the head of state" excuse doesn't cut it with me , he is a religious leader of an entity that pays no taxes)

 

he is also a political leader

 

Which is bad since he is FIRST and FOREMOST a religious leader.......the "worshipping him as a god " crowd was creepy to watch....

 

Thanks.

 

Well "we" don't. The Roman Catholic church does.

 

He is not supposed to be.

 

Uh, yes he is. He's the head of the Roman state, Senate and religion. The papacy isn't Christian and dates to the Roman Kingdom. It's been tied to the head of state since the late republic. The Pope's proper religious title is Patriarch of the West and it should be noted that Francis himself has rejected the title of Pope in favor of Bishop of Rome deeming Pope to be overly pompous.

 

What happened to the Libs' view of separation of church and state? The pope is the spiritual leader for Catholics. He should not interject his political opinions when he speaks, because he is not an expert in those matters. Now if a leader asks his opinion, then he can give it in private.

 

He gave a speech, he didn't make any laws or gain a position in our government. And how is he not an expert on the issues he brought up? That's the whole point of his order.

 

Was Peter the first pope? The answer, according to Scripture, is a clear and emphatic “no.” Peter nowhere claims supremacy over the other apostles. Nowhere in his writings (1 and 2 Peter) did the Apostle Peter claim any special role, authority, or power over the church. Nowhere in Scripture does Peter, or any other apostle, state that their apostolic authority would be passed on to successors. Yes, the Apostle Peter had a leadership role among the disciples. Yes, Peter played a crucial role in the early spread of the gospel (Acts chapters 1-10). Yes, Peter was the “rock” that Christ predicted he would be (Matthew 16:1. However, these truths about Peter in no way give support to the concept that Peter was the first pope, or that he was the “supreme leader” over the apostles, or that his authority would be passed on to the bishops of Rome. Peter himself points us all to the true Shepherd and Overseer of the church, the Lord Jesus Christ (1 Peter 2:25).

 

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Upon reading this reply, it is critical to note that core Catholic teachings come from "Sacred Tradition" which emulates Jesus Christ as he appears in the New Testament. All other Christian authority come through "Sola Scriptura" which uses the entire bible and de-emphasizes the new testament. Protestants all deny the theological existence of a pope.

 

Nobody said it was true, just that was how Rome justified the rejection of the patriarchy. Anyone that knows Roman history knows the papacy has nothing to do with Christianity. The church had to invent that story to justify itself or it'd have been tossed aside along with all the other Roman institutions when the western empire fell.

 

Where you have people willing to weep at the feet of another person you will always find someones feet to stand there and be wept at. To me hes just another guy.

 

Bravo Sierra.

 

Having read the bible several times as well as the history of religion (to include Christianity) I've found that there is no real establishment in the bible for either the Pope or for Christianity/Christian doctrine as constituted or organized. Both are creations of humans in the following centuries. For that matter, there is no agreement among the various branches of Christianity as to just what is in the bible. There is also considerable evidence that the contents of the various versions of the bible were modified over the centuries to reflect the doctrines adopted ex post facto by the various churches.

 

Christians were being thrown to the lions when Jesus personally told Peter he would be the rock of the church. The Roman Catholic Church didn't exist during Peter's lifetime. The Roman Empire being as strong as it was when it created the Roman Catholic Church was able to rewrite history. Sunday was a pagan sun worshipping day which the Catholic Church successfully convinced everyone is the true Sabbath Day. The Catholic Church claimed Peter as it's first pope but there is no proof Peter was ever in Rome.

 

And I believe this pope would be the first to agree with you. I see him as a reluctant pope who felt a duty and an honor to serve his church in it's dire times. I think he is a wonderful man.

 

Libs will ride any horse that they think will advance them toward their goals.

 

All Christians accept the Apostolic Creed and have complete freedom to disagree on everything else.

 

I believe there is Biblical support for what you say. At one point, Jesus said, "...Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's." If we assess "Caesar" as being government(s), it seems to be a fairly clear division between Church and State.

But the problem (and there are several) with this propped-up "Pope Francis" creation is that even within the norm and structure of the Roman Catholic Church, there was never supposed to be TWO Popes.

The Catholics already HAD a Pope -- the duly elected Pope Benedict XVI... but for reasons that have never been made clear, the Vatican (?) decided to push him out and make him something called a "Pope-Emeritus" (whatever the hell that is...). Then, they brought in the Francis entertainer, as a replacement "Pope", to push the global warming agenda and the full smorgasbord of socialist crap that should have died a well-deserved death after failing in every country that tried it during the 20th Century....

So, we've had several days of this "Pope Francis" entertaining the UN and Congress, delivering his scripted message about global warming, and condemning the whole idea of independent, free people working for a living, buying and selling what you please, and otherwise only wanting to be left the hell alone! He and Obama were like two peas in a pod, and personally, I found the whole simpleminded schauspiel to be nauseating.

Tomorrow they'll put his ass on an airplane and he can go pretend to be a "Pope" somewhere else. Before the invention of the entertainer, "Pope Francis", rolled out, I was starting to think seriously about returning to my roots in the Roman Catholic Church, but not now.

 

Taking care of God's earth is not about politics. We have made it about politics. I believe the Pope has every right to talk about God's earth and how we should take care of it. If you truly believe in God, and that God made this earth for his children to enjoy, then you should also expect a man of God to defend God's earth.

Isaiah 24:5

5 The earth lies defiled
under its inhabitants;
for they have transgressed the laws,
violated the statutes,
broken the everlasting covenant.

 

My understanding is that the office of the Pope was very similar to the office of Emperor..... but over the church rather than over the Roman Senate.

We got into this over in another topic this morning...…

http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=419320&page=8&p=1065399389#post1065399389

 

Good Biblical quote! Yes, indeed, as a people we have "transgressed the laws, violated the statutes, broken the everlasting covenent"!

Read other lengthy passages in the Old Testament about what is supremely sinful and "detestable", and, in the Book of Romans in the New Testament and you'll see plenty of them. Now that the Supreme Court has officially endorsed "gay marriage", and now that American taxpayers support selling human body parts from aborted babies through Planned Parenthood, should we see ourselves in this?!

Book of Romans, Ch. 1, vs. 26 - 32 (NIV Version):

"...God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them."

Funny, I don't remember "Pope" Francis the Entertainer giving any of us a sermon about THAT!

Yeah, that "global warming" nearly killed us last winter, ask anybody in New England!