Do you support the existence of class hierarchies in society?

I do support class systems because it gives people an opportunity to go up as well as going down. It may be incredibly difficult to change one's class, but I think that the net benefits make such an effort worthwhile.

Edit: This was supposed to be a poll but the formatting didn't show up.

 

What benefits? Maybe for those of the upper class, but in all class systems I have seen, it is those on the bottom that suffer.

 

That is exactly my point, the bottom should suffer, and those who rise should benefit and be rewarded. There needs to be an incentive to do well in life!

 

That might work if everyone was born in the exact same class with the exact same opportunities, but the reality is that the world doesn't work like that. Do you really think someone like Paris Hilton is a harder worker than a guy working two jobs to barely support his family? Is someone flashing their privates to the paparazzi somehow more deserving than someone doing manual labor (or labour since you are from the U.K.)?

 

And why does Paris Hilton have it so easy? Because her family worked hard and achieved more than the guy's who is working two jobs. It still works out the same way, no matter how you slice it. At some point, we were all in caves, but some of our ancestors worked harder/smarter than others. Class will always exist become humans are all different.

 

So Paris got lucky to be born into a rich family, how does that make her more deserving? She will never have to work or contribute anything to society. How does the class system make her a better person? Also, don't forget, that in a true class system, it is very hard to move up through the classes as there is a finite amount of resources and those with them do want to give them up so they put up barriers so they don't have to share. I agree there will always be classes, but we can weaken their influence.

 

Where did I say anything about what kind of person Paris Hilton is?

But if I work hard to provide for my family, the my family having a much easier life is my reward for success. Jose the Lettuce picker's ancestor's did not work as hard to provide for an easy life. Maybe if he works three or four jobs, saves his money and invests it well, his future decendents will have it easy too.

 

Everyone could have an easy life, but instead, the higher classes exploit the lower classes so that they can live a life of luxury.

By sharing the load of maintaining human civilization equally and using central planning to eliminate inefficiencies, we could all have an equally high standard of living without such disgusting exploitation.

 

Isn't the whole point of a class system is that it rewards those who are more deserving? I was merely pointing out that it is not always the case.

 

Most hierarchies as a result of well fought out social battles. The reason the most successful and powerful people in America are white, asian, and southeast asian males is because they tend to be the most intelligent and productive. DEAL WITH IT.

 

Don't you mean, we could all have an equally average standard of living? What joy is there in confining all of humanity to being average for the rest of time?

 

It's true no one ever does it all on there on. There are two things that must be utilized to gain wealth. Other people's time and other people's money. Some are better at finding ways to benefit from them than others. Usually if someone gives up their time to help increase your wealth they are rewarded with a payment. If they allow you to use their money, they expect payment for the use of those funds. The life isn't for everyone. Do you want to be the guy up at 2:00 am trying to figure out if you can meet payroll or do you want to be the guy a sleep in your bed? There is honor in both paths, and both are needed in the world we find ourselves.

America has no real cast system. Sure their are income levels but I've met great people and dick heads from every income level. Money doesn't buy class, and a dick head with no money will most likely be a dick head if the had money.

 

Because everyone could live a comfortable life without scarcity. That's a lot more important than standing by idly while capitalists acquire the means of production that could allow all to achieve a better standard of living in order to achieve domination over others and commit violent acts against the working class.

 

I'm afraid that are at an impasse: your principles against mine. I just do not value the same things that you value.

 

Your values contribute to making people's lives worse.

 

Government mandated uniformity will work great for the folks running the show, but it will be an insufferable tyranny for those they are "helping".

 

We have the right to ownership, the right to pursue gain and the right to give what we own to others. But if the government takes control of the means of production for the sake of mandated uniformity, those that work for the government will do great, while the rest of us suffer under their "assistance". How many times do humans have to prove that they do better under free will, free markets and free choice than under the rule of "helpful" oligarchs?

 

I believe everyone should wash daily and dress appropriately. That alone shows class.

 

Define "class". As you are British I think the word may have a different connotation for you than for an American. For instance, in America, we have loosely defined financial classes (lower, middle, upper), and it is possible, if difficult, to move amongst them. But, if I understand correctly, your type of "class" is virtually impossible to change. "Royals", "nobles", and the like. No amount of (*)(*)(*)(*)ing up is going to lose the Queen her place on the hierarchy, and no amount of hard work is going to put anyone else in that place.

 

Of course you have the right to your personal possessions and giving under socialism. In addition, socialism is completely compatible with a democratic election process.

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Nobody said anything about "Government mandated uniformity". Socialism ensures that everyone receives an equally high standard of living, it says nothing about what they choose to do with that.

 

I'm against any governmental forcing of class hierarchies, or the government not allowing class hierarchies. Humans should be allowed to choose their associates.

 

Actually, she has managed to turn her image into a multi-million dollar company, that allows people to have jobs. While she has the morals of a cat in heat, she has actually done something that helps the GDP, instead of her just living a life living off her trust fund. She's not the best example of the idle rich.

 

In theory, you are exactly right. In practice, all the attempts to do the above simply result in a different group of people exploiting the rest of us. On top of that, central planning simply doesn't work as well as a market based approach.

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Actually, no. The best thing for the poor is to be in a capitalist economy.

 

What are you saying, do you want to be able to ride down the peasants for sport or what? We have more than ample incentive to do well and much more than adequate suffering for those who don't, all accomplished through the miracle of money or the lack thereof. In America, however, classes with real POLITICAL rights other's don't have are right out and good riddance to them, Donald Trump has 10 billion dollars and the same singlular vote as me.

 

I think the federal monitoring and redistributive national processes would violate our inalienable rights recognised in the constitution.

Not in the shiny promotional sales brochure, but in the measurement and implementation, that is exactly what occurs. Armies of bureaucrats descend on those they are controlling and look for deviations from the mean. They take from those above the mean and give to those below the mean. And if you pull back and take a broad view, like all oligarchies, the bureaucrats will enjoy a plentiful abundant lifestyle while those they are "helping" live in want.

That is what the shiny advertising brochure that urges us to exchange our birthright for a mess of porridge claims, but the following I believe captures the truth of it much better:

And the result will be government living as upper class with the rest of us trapped beneath them.

I appreciate the offer, but I'll stick with our constitution.