Ask someone who's transgender anything!

Incorrect.
http://apps.who.int/gender/whatisgender/en/

 

I can't change my sex as the technology doesn't exist yet, but I can change my gender. That is easy to do.

 

I started this thread to have discussions so discussions I will have. Thank you for the heads up I'll keep that in mind going forward.

Usually by ignoring it and reminding myself that there's more to a person then just their body. I know I'm a female because I say I am. So that gives me strength to go ahead and be myself.

 

Would you be comfortable with a solution where we'd see four different bathrooms; cis-male, cis-female and trans-male respectively trans-female? Or s it perhaps just better to add an "alternative option" for anyone to use. Why/why not? How do you feel about cis-people not accepting you in to their rest- and locker rooms?

 

Personally thinking my biggest concern is that I might be outed. So I would rather instead of having a separate bathroom for transgender people, I would rather have one collective one that everyone can share. It reduces the mysteries of other genders by simply making them another part of life.

As for cis-people, they just don't get it. But it's not so much cis-people as those that had never had to fight to an identity. Those that fight for the right to exist know the inherent troubles that go into fighting just so other members of your group can exist and have something to rally themselves behind. It's maddening and rather sad. How many people feel trapped because they don't have the words to describe their pain? Imagine not being able to explain an emotion because you didn't have the word to describe it, that's what it feels like when cis-people don't get it.

 

Well that's awesome, I'm glad you have that strength to be you. It's difficult to find but when you do life is good.

 

The problem is that being female doesn't mean wearing a dress or skirt. So if a predator, even totally appearing a man, was hanging out in ladies only public restrooms there is nothing to dispute his saying "I'm a transwoman" since it is based solely on what s/he says. I started a thread a few weeks ago about the convicted rapist who raped a deaf woman and now claims he's a transwoman (not SRS) and suing to be able to use ladies restrooms.

Consider the OPer of this thread. S/he has not had SRS, so still has male genitalia. He is not on hormone therapy either. The only "proof" s/he would have is that s/he says so. None of these equality laws I've read prevent sex predators and convicted rapists and pedophile men from using ladies restrooms - and there are numerous instances (including posted on this forum) of those men dressing as women and doing creepy things in ladies restrooms - like video taping girls and women from over and under stall walls.

I posted quite a bit on this before, but I do know lesbian and bi women who have a huge problem with genetic men calling themselves women. They did not experience anything women did growing up as a female, none of the physical issues that come with being female, and see defining female as only wearing makeup, socially defined female clothing and what a person says they feel like as degrading and demeaning, to trivial them as women. How much more could a person trivialize the definition of being female? They see is similar to being mocked. They fury was so great in one instance it became violent - and with a non SRS "transwoman" curled on the floor after a lesbian LGTB activist had kneed her/him in the groin she asked "do you FEEL like a woman now?" (It isn't possible to kick a woman in the nuts.)

An analogy would be a person smearing black shoe polish on himself, going to an NAACP meeting saying "I'm black because I feel black." Yet that white man NEVER experienced anything black men have experienced their entire life. It would be exorbitantly offensive, yet isn't that what non SRS transwomen exactly are doing in relation to genetic women? Putting on a female costume like a Halloween costume as what defined being female? I have no problem with a man doing so as a matter of personal freedom for psychology, fun or any other reason, but that really doesn't make a man a "female."

I'm Native American. (Indian) 100%. If someone put on an Indian costume and came to a reservation meeting (I don't do that) claiming to be one of them because this week he feels like an NA, who well do you think that'd go over? They'd throw him out real quick - and probably not nicely.

The reason I feel so strongly about this is that this is a very natural area and there are little parks all over the place, with public bathrooms gender divided. Many of the parks have very few people in them at certain hours - sometimes just 2 or 3 people. It is my job to look after some of those and I do catch men - generally bums - in the bathrooms including the ladies bathroom. Those bathroom are perfect places to lay-in-waiting to attack jumping out of a stall. Now I have the discretion to just run those men off or arrest them - usually just run them off making it clear it happens again they're going to jail. Under such equality laws, nothing would prevent any man from hiding out in a bathroon stall watching thru the crack waiting for a potential victim. Families tend to be who uses the parks, including children, and otherwise young couples such as high school kids.

They did rent us a room, but one of us is sort of a superstar in the LGTB community and we have a lot of names to drop, plus understood their concerns and agreed with them. The manager understood that I would fully respect their rules because it known I fully respect their rights in general. Yes, women can have their own space. Yes, lesbians can have their own private romance areas too.

We know (very well) a married lesbian couple who were denied a room at a resort because they were lesbian. One had reserved the room and upon showing up were denied. They didn't like it but weren't outraged. They struck back posting on the site they used to find it that the motel is dirty, the room smelled bad, that there were "undesirable hanging around" and otherwise messages to try to cost them business.

I would feel uncomfortable in such as a public beach male bathroom shower with a biological woman in that same shower naked with me, yes. We are not a nudist society and some of the rules essentially legalize nudity, including adult men with adult male genetia with little girls - as long as he said "I feel like a woman." That is an example of a slogan going too far in my opinion.

While I am fully supportive of all legtimate LGTB rights for many real and personal reasons, there also is a problem in my opinion that once LGTB activists come up with a new slogan it is like some law from God. All reality, everything, then is controlled by the slogan regardless of how extreme the application. Inherently, rules involve denial of freedom and rights - such is the very nature of rules. When romance and intimacy are involved, whether it be bathrooms or resorts, such rules can deny freedom and rights.

 

"Restroom problem" can indeed easily be solved with an uni-sex solution. Those have been around for ages anyways and I am completely fine with them. However, my line is drawn here. Locker rooms I believe should be restricted to biology. Not so much because of trans-people themselves, but rather does my concern derrive from a Praxeological analysis. I mean lets say everyone was free to choose locker room based on what they identify as, you do not think this gives perverted folks and other societal litter incentives to abuseand take advantage of the system? E.g. "identify as woman" just to see some nude ladies or, even worse, see some nude children?

Also have to agree with previous poster, you are strong and your bravery is admireble; putting up a thread like this at an anonymous internet forum is doomed to end in trollery, slurs and other nasty comments. Keep it up m8

 

I agree that we would need some kind of recourse to prosecute criminals. Does it have to be no transgender people though or is there another way to achieve this?

What's to stop me as a lesbian from taping girls under stall doors? Taping someone without their permission in a bathroom is and should be the crime.

Well that's assault and she should have been arrested. It sounds like these women need to just mind their own business and quit worrying about what other people feel. How are they impacted by what a trans person feels? Don't like it just avoid them. Live and let live goes for all. They sound like a$$holes to be honest.

Race is different. Chromosomes and hormones don't differ the same way as it does between the sexes.

There are men already hiding in women's bathrooms. The issue isn't that they'll be able to, it's that we need legal recourse that allows us to continue to prosecute those criminals. The trans person going in, peeing and leaving shouldn't be considered the criminal though. There are enough smart people in this country, can't we find a way to ensure legal recourse is still available for creepy frauds?

 

In virtually all topics of laws and criminality, you're dealing with likelihoods and odds. There is no perfect system. For example, yes a lesbian could be videotaping over/under stalls. But statistically that is not the problem. Yes, I suppose lebians do also rape other women, but 99% of the time is is a man raping a woman and the same likely for perverted men in ladies restrooms.

The problem is there really is no way to know what's in another person's head or motives, nor is it only about the sensibilities of trans-people. What about the little girl raised in a traditional family? An a person with male genitals she sees because the "transwoman" shows them, claiming it was "inadvertant" if questioned by police? There are also people who will have violent reactions to an apparent genetic man in a woman's bathroom, regardless of that supposed transwoman's motivation.

The police nor anyone else can know a person's internal motives. Nor can it be based upon dress and appearance because no woman is required to wear "women's" clothing, are they?

The only actual non-judgmental system is to base it on apparent genitalia. If it's male, use the man's bathroom. If female, use the ladies bathroom. No, that does not mean genital inspections, but it does raise a legal standard and yes, if a legitimate suspicious, police could check just like with legitimate suspicion a person's pocket can be searched.

If there REALLY was a real problem, rather than a slogan to comply with, of trans-people being assaulted and harassed for using the wrong public bathroom, there would be more reason for concern. But many times I've asked if anyone can find an example of that happening and no one can. Many, (many) instances of predatory men dressing as women for predatory reasons entering public ladies only bathrooms has been documented.

As for the violence instance I told of, I told the story before and even started a thread on it some time ago. It was a meeting of longtime LGTB activists, nearly all lesbian or bi-women, to discuss real issues of dangers to lesbians particularly at the local school. At someone's home. An uninvited transvestite or transwoman with extremely exaggerated female makeup and dress was allowed in, and then became increasingly annoying, loud, and attention whoring, going furious because the women would not call that person a "she." A couple of the women are very hardcore activists and very alpha personalities. When s/he charged at one of the women shouting at her she dropped him/her with a knee in the groin. And then she/he was thrown out. Because this was the 3rd and worsening problem with transwomen/transvestites, they voted to ban transwomen/transvestites from their future meetings - and again they are hardcore LGTB activists.

Not everyone agrees that trans-rights are the same as gay and lesbian rights issues. Just because they are in the same alphabet does not mean the two are entirely connected or the same issues.

Personally, I believe TRUE transsexuals are quite rare and more often the person really is a transvestite or non-transsexual transgender. That confusion is why the attempted suicide rate for those who undergo SRS can exceed 50%. Wanting to dress and act like a woman doesn't necessarily mean the person is transsexual. Their fantasy wasn't really the reality and after that surgery there is no road back. But that's just my opinion.

"Transgenderism" is not the simplistic "if a man says he's a woman then he is" like the current movement asserts. Transvestitism, transgender and transsexual really are not the same thing. Sexual fantasy, youthful need to be different or gain attention, social pressures, and a whole list of factors come into play in the range of what "transgendered" means. It is very unique to each person. Nor is it as simple as every person is 100% male-ish or 100% female-ish either.

We know a gay transvestite very well who so much passes as a woman that he's a dancer as a woman in clubs. He has a full wardroom and wig collection, and is very skilled with makeup. BUT he recongized he's a "dude" (his own words). Which bathroom he uses is determined by how he's dressed and appearing at the time for practical reasons. He's never had a problem using the ladies bathroom and it won't take a legal change for him to continue doing so.

All in all, I think it should remain male genital determines which public bathroom to use as there is no psychological evaluation of motives required - which with SRS could then contradict dna. I have zero issue with an SRS transsexual using the public restroom matching their apparent genitalia.

In reality, if a person truly is appearing as a woman or a man, regardless of their dna, there's not going to be a problem if they break the rule. Heck, when one or the other bathroom is out of order and no one's in the other one, men and women will use the other bathroom anyway without a problem. I see this issue as seeking a solution where there isn't really a real problem, where there are piles of problems with the solution.

There are other areas I take issue with goals of transactivists - such as genetic males competing in women's athletics and women's beauty contests due to the inherent physical differences between the sexes other than hormones and apparent genetals. Men have longer legs per body height ratio and narrower hips. Even with SRS and hormone therapy, a genetic male will be able to run faster because of that bone structure advantage. Transwomen have longer legs per height in a society that admires "long legged women" so also have a genetic advantage over women in beauty competitions. Also, in the latter, they are artificially/surgically created/redefined which also is an unfair advantage.

 

You're the one incorrect.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aiBzaN3uuik

 

No you can't. You can only change how you feel. What if I said that I wanted to become a dog (some people might think of me as a son of a female dog but that's there problem), can I do that?

 

Can you bark ?

 

no sir.
A YouTube joke doesn't mean I'm incorrect. Further your video didn't really have much to do with what gender is.

 

Woof! Yes I can bark but that doesn't make me a dog. I can wear a Navy SEAL uniform but that doesn't make me a Navy SEAL, in fact if I do pose as one I think I can be arrested for stolen valor. For sure I can be arrested for impersonating a police officer if I'm not one.

 

Then how about this?


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MGF22aNFvuQ

 

Well when I bark, my dog gives me his yeah right look......

 

No. It supports my argument.

 

Wouldn't a compromise be to just continue to allow trans people to use the bathroom matching their appearance then? Your friend sounds like goes between bathrooms depending on that day's appearance, which bothers no one because they have no idea. Unless we talk about genital inspection, what worries me about these bathroom laws is how do you know someone has broken it? If I'm a butch lesbian am I at risk of being detained then "inspected" to make sure I'm in the right bathroom because I appear manly? I see no way to enforce these laws so why do we need them? Unless people are willing to undergo physical inspection or carry around ID cards everywhere they go, how can this be enforced?

 

Hello Kranes,

I am a fan of open dialogue so I respect your courage in starting this thread.

My question is this...how old are you?

 

This is crazy on so many levels, Every human needs to use a bathroom, some people are in wheelchairs and need an ADA compliant bathroom.

Bathrooms in many places are already individual and lockable Unisex ADA compliant bathrooms, and those bathrooms have not become the crime scenes one forum member keeps insisting they will.

It just proves how sick some people really are, making it harder for people to use a bathroom, then make up lame excuses when a perfectly reasonable solution is at hand...
It benefits everyone that uses bathrooms, not just a few.

 

Proving my point. Even if you feel and dress like a woman that doesn't change your gender.

- - - Updated - - -

How so?

 

Gender in this context only refers to behaviors assigned to the sexes by culture.

Gender roles so to speak.

 

- - - Updated - - -

Well, you are not Transgender, so how would you know ???
I had a friend that knew he was Transgender at 10 years old, he insisted on being called Penny instead of Benny.....

 

Does the OPer want SRS (sex reassignment surgery to remove your testicles and invert your penis as a vagina)?