National Academy of Sciences says there is evidence for Creation by God

I would say there have been frauds committed in the name of ego... and they happen on body sides of the evolution debate. The media will hype ANY outrageous claim from any source, but at least in science there is a policy of "peer review" in place for any legitimate journal. I have concerns about some of the Christian websites I have seen because they continue to publish debunked rebuttals in an attempt to refute scientific facts that they find inconvenient.

 

Wrong you need to provide evidence of such a creator not just an assumption.

Lack of complete understanding of why or how the laws of physics came to exist is not evidence of a creator.

 

If Satan is the master of deceit, he could've used the bible as a tool. Got the persecutor of Christians, Saul, to pretend to convert and fool a whole bunch of people to lead them astray. For Satan, as you say, is the master of deceit.
On the free will thing, didn't you say God knows all things, even before creation? And not 1 single thing can ever change from that.

 

Uh....there is NOTHING in the Bible that is related to any science I am aware of.

AA

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Yeah....every single sect of Christianity EXCEPT Baptists have accepted the reality of Evolution.

AA

 

Scientific laws are not the same thing as human laws. Besides, ontological arguments for God can cut both ways.

 

He has a great point he makes here.
What he calls "the INFINITE Creator,"... I call, "Reality."

 

Yes, evidence has been found for the Reality,... which has rules and makes demands upon us all,...

 

... so when the Muslims call the Western Christian Nations "The Big Satan,"...do you see evidence that Satan has gotten into the Bible ... with interpretations that all differ...?

 

Reality is not a creator.

Trying to claim the god of the bible is reality does not work

 

Reality trumps fairy tales and legends, boy.

Pity you don't see that.

 

Seems like an OK idea to me.

Reality just keeps fall down on us moment by moment.
Everything slowly changes, as the environment evolves forward.

If we delay, and do not adapt to the ever changing Reality,... which is slowly unfolding frame after frame,... we'll see the "second death,"... the death of our species.

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?
I see it.
That's two of us then,...

Truth is the son of the unfolding Reality, too.

 

Anyone who uses critical thinking will see your assumption as, irrational.

What does the Bible say about God, especially in the New Testament?
What does the Bible say about Satan? If you think that, why would the Bible warn people against Satan?

Think about it, dairyair. The goal of Satan is to alienate people from God, not to convert them to God!

Due to his history, Paul presents the most amazing evidence for Christ's resurrection from the dead....and his conversion is explained in the Bible. He also gave and wrote his testimony.

Furthermore...... Paul had brought the gospel to the Gentiles - and because of that, the gospel went globa!l
Does that looks like he works for Satan?

 

Well? Those laws results in harmonious order of complexity, right? Why does the universe follow those "laws?"
If there's no Authority that created those laws, everything should be by random and chaos, right?

 

That is the ultimate question which science seeks to answer.

Wrong. Without knowing why these laws are as they are, we cannot say anything about any Authority.

 

Guess you don't know what 'The Master of Deceit' could do. When one is deceived they don't know they are being deceived.
If you aren't following God how God intended, but how the bible says to, if inspired by satan, he is not getting you to convert to God, but to a false God.
Saul/Paul, persecuted the very people he is supposedly trying to help. He contradicts the word of Jesus in how one achieved eternal salvation. It's pretty obvious if one takes a step back and reads what he says.
So yes, it looks like the word of Satan. How do you think Satan would go about deceiving people?

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I put it as a possibility.

 

Well, the following quotes were used in the other two threads, Abrahamic God is the Creator, and No Scientist Fully Understands Evolution.
These are corroborating statements for the evidence for God, specifically the Christian God.

Read more: http://www.reasonablefaith.org/does-god-exist-the-craig-pigliucci-debate#ixzz4A9uinXUR

http://www.amazon.com/God-Astronomers-Expanded-Robert-Jastrow/dp/0393850064

http://www.leaderu.com/truth/1truth18b.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Jastrow



Who was Robert Jastrow?

http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/news/20080303/

 

Sorry, but the fine tuning argument is a joke. Neither Dr. Robert Jastrow nor anyone else knows what possible range of values any initial conditions or fundamental forces could have had.

 

Stop resisting.......your reasoning looks warped.
Creation is on the table. The NAS says so. You're going against scientific explanations.

It can't be that a "joke"....... if it's converting scientists into Christians and deists! And made a self-professed agnostic point at creation -
and contemplate about the existence of God!

 

Here is another interesting excerpt from an article, that appeared in the Wall Street Journal.

https://thedailyhatch.org/2015/02/0...c-metaxas-dec-25-2014-in-wall-street-journal/

 

Something I actually agree with.......

the "Creation Scientists" and ID'ers, etc. who say "Science has evidence God exists"...

have doubts.....their faith is weak. So they turn to "science" to try to prove God is real.

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Except...as has been pointed out many times on this thread....that is NOT what the NAS is saying.

It's YOUR interpretation, even spin.

 

Well, actually no. It's not that the faith is weak. We're in a forum. It's different here.
I have to use science simply because I'm debating with atheists - who don't believe at all, and who supposedly rely on science for facts!

In other words, I'm meeting you on your own ground!

How can I discuss the existence of God with an atheist by saying, "hey, you gotta believe it because it says so in the Bible!"
Don't atheist call the Bible, a book of fairy tales?

You better read the last page where I'd given corroborating statements from other scientists. You're in denial! Most of you are.
Which is understandable. Imagine that. The NAS! It must be like having a bomb explode near you - you're shell-shocked.

 

Don't some Christians say that science is "false"...like on things like evolution, carbon-dating, geology, paleontology, even astronomy?

You NEED science to "prove God exists".....because you have doubts.

 

There are questions and debates about some of the claims being made.
It's not coming only from Christians. Some come from scientists like Richard Lumsden and James Tour.

That's not saying everything is false. We all accept evolution as a fact - MICRO Evolution, to be specific.

 

Well, actually I don't.
In fact I've said that I don't agree with the NAS about theistic evolution....because I don't believe macroevolution is true.
There is no evidence for it.


Anyway, if making yourself believe that I have doubts about my faith for using science to meet you on your own terms, if that makes you feel
much better........that's entirely up to you. I understand that some people are not well-equipped to face a painful life-changing truth.

 

Can anyone tell me why the Universe has to be 'fine tuned'.

Why does the earth have to be 'fine tuned' for man to exist. The obvious reason man exists is that the conditions on earth allowed it. Not that it was conditioned to allow man. The planet Jupiter wasn't placed there to protect man. It simply exists in it's natural orbit. There is no reason to believe any being placed it there for a purpose. In fact any fine tuner would have placed another planet to direct away from earth those asteroids that do get to earth and kill men. There's every reason to believe this so-called 'fine tuning' will one day allow another asteroid to devastate the earth. That's not fine tuning.
Again there is no reason to suppose another race of beings has not evolved somewhere in the Universe. The conditions there may be different to ours and have produced another form of life that we know nothing about.
Fine tuning of the Universe can be like the need for survival among animals. An inanimate survival of the fittest. We know today that the so called 'fine tuning' is still going on. Stars are exploding, new stars are forming, galaxies are forming, galaxies are colliding. The Universe is in a constant state of flux. In a few billion years our Galaxy will probably be snuffed out by a larger Galaxy that is heading our way. Before that there is a rogue sun that is heading our way and although it will miss our galaxy it could cause us some harm. Fortunately for us today, this is far in the future - 250,000 - 450,000 years.
'Fine tuning' is simply the need of those who want a god. A 'fine tuner' would have made this planet safe for its creation. This world was not made for man. It so happens that out of the primordial soup a form of life sprang that suited the conditions on the planet. Eventually evolving into man. At any stage an infinitely small deviation in the evolutionary process and the birds or another creature might have evolved to rule the world.