Raising the minimum wage is good for the economy.

Does the term "income disparity" sound familiar?

 

Who do you think builds the assets the capital is invested in? Do buildings just pop up all on their own? Do CNC machines just appear out of thin air? Do toilets grow out of the ground in the building restrooms? Do the buildings wire themselves? Do the buildings plumb themselves? Who delivers the building supplies?

Face it. Capital investment is what makes the world go around. I gave you this example before, apparently you ignored it.

I hire 100 men. But I never invest in real estate for the business. I never invest in a building. I never invest in plant equipment. I never invest in raw materials.

How much will those 100 men make? How much will be sold? How much will those 100 men receive in pay?

HOW MUCH SPENDING WILL THOSE 100 MEN DO?

Labor is a commodity. When the supply of a commodity goes up the price goes down. Because of the very low labor force participation rate we have today there is a huge pool of idle workers which represents a huge supply of the commodity known as labor. Therefore the price of the labor goes down.

You may not like hearing that labor is a commodity. It may offend your delicate sensibilities. It may be an inconvenient truth for you but it *is* the truth nonetheless!

The way to increase disposable income is to increase the number of good jobs. When you force businesses to pay higher wages by using government force you take away from the money the business has available to invest and grow jobs.

Of course this is true. But as I hope you glean from my example above you *have* to start with capital investment. Labor can't bootstrap itself.

 

They raised the minimum wage in Seattle and worker's had their hours drastically cut, so they're making less money.

Liberals don't understand that the principles of economics are as unforgiving as the law of gravity. You can't cheat either one, no matter how good your intentions are.

 

I'm just curious, does your analysis extend to national infrastructure?

 

And the CEO can't do all the work by himself. What you are failing to see is that I am not saying labor alone can do what we need done in the economy. I've said repeatedly, everything is interrelated. Business is doing fine and more profitable than ever before. The Stock Market has hit record highs this year. CEOs are making 200+ times what the average laborer makes. Yet, the economy is still sluggish. There's your clue. The economy is sluggish because there is a lack of demand. There is a lack of demand because working and middle class salaries have been stagnant for more than a decade and they are in debt. Without higher salaries that produces some disposable income, we will not see demand increase. That means the economy will remain sluggish. Didn't you post to me that we need a growing economy? If that was you, I agree! How do we get it growing? By increasing demand. Churning money through the economy is what does it. Capital investment can be a portion of the churning, but the real churning comes from consumer spending.. and they don't have enough money to spend to get the economy out of the doldrums. It's that simple.

 

Nobody is proposing doubling the MW "all at once". Not knowing this doesn't make you look smart.

The MW was doubled over as many years as current proposals would double it, and not all at once in any case. So there is little difference.

 

The bottom line is, the GOP would vote for $10, or maybe more. But the Democrats want to use the well being of the working poor as a political bargaining chip, instead of helping them. The ONLY thing holding up an increase, is the refusal by Democrats to negotiate on the $15. Their primary reason for this, is so they can declare that their slogan worked. They really do love those slogans. But, never mind that raising it to $15 will result in less jobs. Never mind the recent report out of Seattle that showed how much they harmed poor people by raising it to $15. It's pointless to raise it up so high, that everyone gets fired.

 

A huge number of new manufacturing jobs are being created in the US today by niche manufacturers using CNC machines. I just read a story about an employer in Topeka, KS that grew from one employee (himself) to eighteen employees in three years. He's expanding now to add more. They use CNC machines to make signs. There is a manufacturer in Topeka (where two people work) that makes custom wheels for motorcycles and cars. He sells all over the nation.

As CNC and 3d printing technology advances even more the manufacturing jobs created by this technology will grow by leaps and bounds. The problem is that these take more than a high school diploma to use. And our school system is simply not providing the training to use these.

 

Ah! So you found another story. And it's just so much BS. Your argument was that you objected to raising the MW "ALL AT ONCE". That argument has been discredited as bogus. I showed the MW has been doubled in the same, proposed time frame before and it's not proposed to be "ALL AT ONCE".

Accept your defeat gracefully.

 

We have never, a single time in US history, passed a bill that doubled the minimum wage, over any period. I think it's hilarious that you seem to only care about "winning", and not being factually correct. Do all your "wins" result from parsing words and twisting what people are saying? How small of a person do you have to be, to even care enough to parse words on an internet board with a stranger?

 

Truthfully, how is your memory?

As I've pointed out to you at least twice the businesses that you see which are doing well are primarily large international businesses whose growth is mainly overseas.

When you look at all business we *still* have more monthly business failures than monthly business startups. Small and medium business are *still* just managing to hang on. Prospects are better, but it's going to take a while to recover to where we should be. These small and medium businesses need help today - lower taxes and less useless regulation.

The economy is sluggish because of taxes and regulation. Business will *still* not add that 50th employee because of Obamacare regulations. Business *still* tries to hold shift work to 30 hours or less because of Obamacare regulations. Dodd/Frank is *still* making it very, VERY difficult for small businesses to get expansion loans.

My prescriptions? Get rid of Obamacare. Lower capital gains taxes to 10% or lower. Allow business to "expense" capital investment, i.e. get rid of long-term depreciation regulations. Institute a government policy of inexpensive energy instead of expensive energy. Leave the federal minimum wage right where it is (if states or cities want to change it then have at it, they will have to compete with states and cities that have lower costs).

All of these are easy to do. They will all provide significant impetus to the economy. There are probably more that I just can't think of now.

 

That is of no consequence. There has never been a period in which the MW was neglected so long, either, with only tiny incremental increases that now leave it well behind inflation.

That's your opinion and I understand why you have to say that.

It would seem that is quite exactly what you did.

Again, seems like what you did. Go back and read your own posts.

 

Whatever dude....

 

My memory is fine.

We disagree.

You completely discount the value of the worker to the economy.

People matter.

 

National infrastructure is typically built by local contractors. It does create jobs by creating assets. But the money for that comes out of the taxpayer pocket thus hurting the overall economy.

The higher up you go in government level the less efficient the government is. The government building assets is not nearly as efficient as local government doing exactly the same thing.

And no level of government is as efficient as private business.

I know where you are trying to go with this. That government spending can stimulate the economy. But that is simply not true.

If you take a dollar out of my pocket it is a dollar less that I have to spend. That hurts the economy.

If the government gives the dollar to a construction worker then he can spend it and help the economy.

At best they will cancel and you get no stimulus.

And that assumes the government can perform the transfer at no cost.

Limited government allowed this nation to become as great as it is, not big government.

 

I don't discount the value of the worker. I just understand that the worker can't bootstrap himself into a job. A fact you want to keep ignoring for some reason!

If you *really* care about the worker then you *should* be interested in providing them more good jobs and not in implementing government wage and price controls.

 

sudo

If you only check within city borders and not check the same minimum paying companies on block out of the city then tell me what the hell have you found out.

 

I just want everyone to know that your bullshit charges thrown around of being communist is totally asinine, what would you call it when there is nothing found in this whole country that meets the definition of the main tenets of communism. and people have to know that your full of bullshit so they don't waste their time reading you.. It's just that simple. something that I've clearly done. If you missed this simply go to comment 447 to see how stupid this guys charges are of communism in this country

 

These haters just don't get it, with 35 years of zero increase in wages(inflation included)and massive increase of debt over those 35 years, making their meager earning less then what is needed to survive and my tax dollar to keep food on their table and a roof over their heads, so that tax dollar can glorify the bottom line of some multy- billion dollar corporation is nuts. You want to destroy capitalism, simply take away the incentive , the main tenet of capitalism, to get ahead and it will collapse. They want it all.

 

I don't know what part of my posts you've missed, but I have said repeatedly that EVERYTHING is interrelated, including business, the worker, and the economy. My whole point of posting in this thread was expressing my opinion that because we do not have enough well paying jobs provided through business, so the government should step in and provide those jobs, as it did after the Great Depression.That is not hard to understand. You are repeating yourself to express that business will provide those jobs, when it obviously isn't or can't. If trickle down worked, we wouldn't have the economic problems we have today, because regulations have been cut, taxes have been lowered, and interest rates have been at near zero for a decade.

You asked if I had a memory problem. Now I am wondering about yours.

 

He didn't know, he does what he

I said that the main tenets of communism, socialism and Marxism don't exist in this country. Unless you supply your own definition to make it so. You have no clue and I've clearly made that point to every one here.

 

More bullshit, a economy can be driven the same rate with consumption. which is in no way investment. Look at this stupid remark from this hero "Corporations don't *park* funds." they admitted to it straight out with the money that Obama gave them to help stimulate the economy , they put it under their mattress because there was no demand and supply side bullshit has absolutely no way to increase demand in a tanked economy. It always seems that the ones that know it all; know it less then everyone else as this example shows.

 

yes I'll argue with you the study is crap without finding out what happens between the McDonald inside city borders and the one 100 feet out side of city border. Without it you have nothing. You should have just read my post, I explained that in full.

 

He is repeating himself because he has a copy and paste mind, it will never wonder outside of those perimeters.

 

I've posted - many times - the explanation for the wealth gap. Not one leftist has ever even bothered to attempt to refute it.

If you want to find it, do a search for my posts, using '1924'.