Can You Be A True Left-winger And Still Support Israel?

I don't think so!

To my mind a person of the left should be anti-war, anti-imperialist, anti-colonialist, anti-Apartheid and anti-Fascist.

Without getting into the whole origins of the conflict it is patently obvious that Israel is at the very least a colonialist state, an Apartheid state and, judging by recent trends one might say a borderline fascist state, too.

Only the other day Netanyahu declared that not one illegal settlement will be removed, that they're here to stay:

We are here to stay, forever.” Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu vows to keep settlements.

This is a position that is in total contravention to international law. It is a blatant statement of intent to continue indefinitely the oppression of the beleaguered Palestinian people, leaving them under no illusion that they'll ever get the state they deserve, that the law says should be afforded them, and that the great majority of the world wants to see.

Yet people who would self-identify as being of the left - like Hillary Clinton - are blindly devoted to Israel, as it would seem are millions of U.S. citizens who would most likely self-identify as being on the left.

Chuck Schumer, Nanci Pelosi, Diane Feinstein etc. All blindly support Israel.

Of course, Zionist donor money, billions of dollars of it over the years has ensured this devotion from most American politicians, so Congress is virtually unified in its blind devotion too.

The Republican Party I can kind of understand, as its leadership are extremely right-wing, and crazy, IMO. But Democrats, people of the so-called left....

What say you folks?

 

I support Israel at its legal 1947 borders.

 

I think the left is moving away from Israel and has been for a long time. Post World War 2 it was natural for the left to support both Jews (an underdog) and Israel ( a refuge). Of course over time, the very success of Israel seem a lot less like underdogs and a lot more like oppressors of a new favorite underdog.

Ultimately I think the American left will separate from Israel. Although I disagree with your characterizations of Israel, it is without a doubt an ethno-nationalist state, and I've been hearing a whole lot the past few months how that's literally Hitler. So it won't happen quickly but I'm sure over time the American left will eventually go anti Israel and of course, anti-Jewish as a consequence.

 

Us "extremely right wing" types don't support Israel. The ones who do are mainstream Christian conservatives who believe the Biblical idea that Jews are God's chosen people and anybody who goes against them will be destroyed.

Other than that, good post.

 

The left won't go "anti-Jewish". The left is run by Jews. There's no way left-wing outlets (which are owned by Jews) are going to tolerate anti-Jewish talk on the left.

But you're right about Israel. It's seen as the more right-wing option against Palestinians and Muslims in general, and now that Muslims are the underdogs in that situation, the left naturally takes their side. And, of course, let's not forget that the left is trying to court Muslims to join their side. They really want those 1.6 billion allies in their war effort against the West.

 

Jews are left wing in the US, but are leaning much more to the right world wide because of the obvious reasons ( of course Muslims). Over time, and by that I mean generationally, I suspect that US Jews will gradually become more right leaning. the intermarriage rate is an astounding 70% so eventually the majority of the people who consider themselves "Jews" will be the Orthodox, who overwhelmingly lean Republican.

 

Intermarriage doesn't really seem to matter too much to US Jews. They can marry a non-Jew and their kid is still said to be Jewish, either of the secular or religious type, or both. When that kid marries a non-Jew, the same thing happens. You always somehow are left with a half-Jewish kid, no matter how many generations of mixing take place.

 

A true left-winger has been joined at one hip with a true neo-Nazi and at the other hip with a true Islamo-nazi in their hatred of Israel for quite some time now so you're of course correct. Needless to say, true left-wingers just like their Islamo-nazi bedfellows hate the US, the west, the western civilization, Christianity and the white race just as passionately as they hate Israel

Yep, exactly.... which in the sick mind of a true left-winger anything pro-Western and anyone to the right of Noam Chomsky and Bernie "Open borders and free healthcare/college for everyone who crosses them" Sanders.

PS it's worth noting that "anti-terrorism" and "anti-communism" and "anti-sharia law" are not included in your definition of a true leftist. Not that it's surprising.

 

Well as far as the Jews are concerned, a Jewish mom is a free ticket to being Jewish, but having a Jewish dad requires that you are actually raised that way. A Jewish dad but raised Episcopalian doesn't get you Israeli residency.

For example:

The first major survey of American Jews in more than 10 years finds a significant rise in those who are not religious, marry outside the faith and are not raising their children Jewish — resulting in rapid assimilation that is sweeping through every branch of Judaism except the Orthodox.

The intermarriage rate, a bellwether statistic, has reached a high of 58 percent for all Jews, and 71 percent for non-Orthodox Jews — a huge change from before 1970 when only 17 percent of Jews married outside the faith. Two-thirds of Jews do not belong to a synagogue, one-fourth do not believe in God and one-third had a Christmas tree in their home last year.

Like I said, this was result in a slow but clear change in political affiliation.

 

I consider myself to be a true left-winger and I don't share any common ground with Neo-Nazis or Islamo-Nazis (that's a new one to me but I think I get what you mean by it in this context), neither do I hate Israel, though I do hate Israel's actions wrt the Palestinians.

Personally, I don't hate any of those either, but again I have issues with the leadership of the U.S., and many Western countries.

Again, not this left-winger. I'm opposed to unlimited immigration. I believe immigration numbers and who comes into a given country should be determined by the government of said country on the basis of economic demand and with the social cohesion of said country in mind.

I'm opposed to the first two, especially state terrorism which is the vastly more deadly type.

I don't ever want to see Sharia law taking hold in my country (Ireland). Here, our law is the law, the only law and that's the way I like it.

If Muslims in Islamic countries want it that's fine by me.

 

total christian ignorance

I have duel citizenship American /Israeli , in Israel a large left wing presence , the current right wing government does not represent all israelis or Jews

http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2...ts-are-irrelevant-only-jews-matter-on-israel/


https://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/

 

I support Israel.

I do not support Zionists, Israeli conservative hardliners and warmongers.

 

Support them in what way?

I believe it is a human right for people to have a government which is run through them rather than over them. Does being in favor of the sovereignty of Palestine mean I have to be against the sovereignty of Israel?

 

Well in terms of U.S. politicians, Congress etc I'd have to say in every way you could think of, and probably some you couldn't..

As for regular left-leaning people then I guess support means being non-critical of the governments actions wrt the Palestinians, amongst friends, on social media, forums like this etc. Maybe only voting for politicians who are pro-Israel.

Agreed.

Of course not, but unconditional support of Israel empowers the Israeli government who then continue with their crimes, and makes Palestinian sovereignty less likely.

EDIT: you've made me realise actually that I should have said 'unconditional support' for the actions of the Israeli state in my OP.

As no doubt there are plenty of people who support the state of Israel, but not the actions of it.

 

Phrasing it that way would make a lot more sense, ultimately it's not about supporting governments, it is about supporting people. We're not talking about favoring one people over another, but rather supporting the same basic human rights for the people of Palestine as the people of Israel.

 

Of course you can. 'left wingers' can diverge here and there, on this issue or that. Its about a general pattern of views that reflect more governmental support for economic health around marginal populations, and a nominal role for redistribution of economic wealth to prevent gross economic injustice. but there is no single foreign policy issue or social issue on which one gets his ideological ID card taken away. Now I personally do not diverge on Israeli /Palestinian questions, but I do not demean another's basic commitment to my broad values, because he sees this one differently than I'd like. He can be bullheaded or inconsistent or just plain wrong on a matter or two. It happens.

 

Total nonsense. What territory has Israel colonized besides Israel which they have occupied for thousands of years? Different from Palestine, Israel has a path for Arab and Palestine immigration and Israeli citizenship. 20% of the citizens in Israel are Arab/Palestine. They have some limitations but that's reasonable as Abbas is still paying bounties for seriously injuring or killing Jews. Fascists? How????

That is only because they are not illegal.

 

I support the Israeli people, but not their government. The Israeli government is just as much terrorists as Hamas, Al Queda, ISIS or any other Islamic extremist group.

 

I have to admit this has confounded me for some time. In Britain the Left for many years supported Zionism, possibly due to the prejudice against Jews in Europe (and Britain). Now it's apparently necessary to be anti-Zionist for the Left. I wonder if it's just that support for the underdog is required of the Left? In this case yesterday's underdog turned into today's crazy mastiff savaging anyone who comes near it.

 

Pure unadulterated hogwash. There is zero evidence to back up your statement.

 

Left wing political theory has been disgraced. Who cares about what they like and don't like?

 

Oh swell, another new hate-on-Jews bigotry thread.

Even if they succeeded in killing every Jew on earth, they will never stop. Israel is so tiny in comparison to its Muslim countries around it you need a magnifying glass to see it.

Remember, the Democratic Party began as and remains the party of murderous racial hatred, bigotry and xenophobic. So it will support Islam's extreme bigotries and advocacy of violence as that is the core of the Democratic Party itself, worse now that the American Democratic Party has been eliminated and replaced with the International Democratic Corporate Fascist Party.

 

Can a person be a loyal Democrat liberal and still support Israel?

No, fascists globalists can not support Jews or Israel. The vastly greater wealth is with Muslims and Islamic countries, so as Islam hates Jews and Israel so must the minions of the corporate fascist globalists.

 

No, you have described the majority of us Trump supporters, not "the left." Not anymore. The left now is for global corporate fascism.

 

I support Israel's right to exist as a Jewish ethno-state, BUT as a full democracy with FULL rights for all citizens.

i oppose all the settlements and land confiscations.