Europe need death penalty now !

I didn't post to you and I won't from now. Your hatred is everything I despise

 

Oh, I forgot, you're one of those noble soul who are above those wordly emotion like anger and fear for you relative. Go little angel, go fly somewhere else, you who is only peace and love.

 

So you agree it doesn't work. That means that even if you only executed guilty people, there would be just as many (if not more) jihadists.

Neither of those points have anything to do with your proposal for capital punishment against jihadists. One topic at a time please.

He tried to kill too many people at the same time.

 

No, one dead jihadist is one less jihadist. Furthermore, the less you have jihadist and jihad apologist, the less their ideas can spread.

It have to do. Death penalty is necessary because I would have asked for a TRUE life sentence prison for many people. But we can't because we don't have the ways.

Don't avoid to answer the question. He was beaten by the soviets and the USA. Not with flowers. By violence. So yes, violence can be usefull too, it is what stopped ethnic epuration in Europe.

 

But a terrorist executed by a western state becomes a much more symbolic martyr than even one who kills themselves, let alone a Muslim who might be deemed innocent (or at least not guilty of enough to justify execution). They'd become exactly the kind of tool extremists uses to inspire the vulnerable.

If you're only proposing it for jihadists though, that's a tiny proportion of the total prison population. Imprisoning them fr life wouldn't impact the prison population, which is primarily caused by drug abuse and a systematic failure to implement proper rehabilitation and prevention programs.

Violence can be. Summarily killing people is different, otherwise we would have just murdered all the German prisoners of war. Capital punishment still doesn't work.

 

There is something worst than making a martyr, it is to let a murderer free.

So called rehabilitation and prevention programs are a part of the problem. It is just a pretty name for laxism. A lot of terrorist had violent records, and weren't treated as what they were : extremly violent people.
There is raped women who have to coexist with their rapists because of the so called "rehabilitation" programm, it's the rehabilitation of the monster and an insult to the victim.
There is people who are beaten to death of people who weren't sentenced to anything in name of those "rehabilitation".

Capital punishment don't prevent neither to reach low violence societies. Look at the homicide rate of China and Japan, they're tiny, both of those countries kept capital punishment. I don't say that we should summarily killing them, we should have trial first.
It have to be noticed that both of those countries tend to pronunce harsh prison sentences.

 

Talking to @VotreAltesse about Islam at @Reiver is as useful as talking to you about Theresa May; No matter what I say or how hard anyone tries, it's still like talking to a wall.
Still, I think everybody is missing the very blatant France is in the EU and so can't bring back the death penalty.
In a forum full of a countless examples of Islamphobia in Europe, I hardily think it's any secret on @VotreAltesse's part my own views on Islam and mutliculture.

 

You're still hurt that I compare Jeremy Corbyn to Adolf Hitler @Reiver

 

OP

This is one of the ironies - jihadists expect to be executed when they're either caught planning an atrocity, or have already committed it, and have contempt for the west when they're sent to a 'holiday camp' (prison?) for a year or two instead. Then when they're released they do it all over again. But at least we have to admire their timing.

 

So why do we keep them alive then? Isn't that an infringement of their right to self-determination, which the rest of us are entitled to? Actually it's worse than that, because to deny them their wish (to die) is discrimination against a minority group? Think about it.

 

Nobody is suggesting letting murderers go free.

I’m not talking about rehabilitation of the extremely violent offenders but more the lower level offenders, who fill a lot more prison places and, without the correct management and support, can easily get caught in a reoffending cycle. There are places which do this much better, notable in the Scandinavian countries.

If you can reduce the criminal and prison populations via these means, that leaves more resources and space to properly deal with the most serious and irretrievable ones.

Not a properly run and managed one. Rehabilitation doesn’t need to have any impact on length of sentence or what a prisoner lives when they’re released. Indeed, it should have a stronger influence on what a prisoner does after release, rather than the current practice of dumping them at the prison door with the clothes they were sentenced in.

I thought we’d already agreed that whether a country has capital punishment or not has no apparent impact of crime statistics. Why are you bringing this falsehood up again?

If a Muslim had a trial but was found not guilty (or not guilty enough to justify execution), you wouldn’t complain and want retrials until they got the “right” answer?

 

Unfortunately, extremly violent people are set free in France or with very ligh sentence.

Scandinavian countries are extremly rich countries with globally low criminality rate. You can afford such policy when you have low criminality rate and you have a lot of money.

I stay extremly skeptical about such policy. They were women killed by their violent former husband because their husband got permission for "rehabilitation". Rehabilitation for thieve, maybe, violent people can go to hell.

I still say so, but we have to deal with huge quantities of people.

Absolutely not, I speak of jihadism not regular muslims. About not guilty enough, there is a simple fact for me : if someone support the islamic state or jihadism, he must die.

 

It's forbidden by EU yes, I know and I aknowledge it. I just say we can just ignore that. EU have a lot of weakness and still no total controle over us and all they care about is free trade and money. Their humanright speech is justn a hypocrite decoration.

 

In Germany we have "Sicherheitsverwahrung" (security detention) for prisoners who are a thread for the public after their sentence ended and it's possible to keep them in prison for the rest of their lifes. They receive a better treatment than normal prisoners after their normal sentence ended. Current are about 500 men and one woman in security detention.

 

No.

Advocating for murdering infidels like said in the OP can already put you in jail for a pretty long time in Europe. Unquestionably they deserve deportation, but this still doesn't justify the outdated and thoroughly inefficient thing that is the death penalty.

What's the core belief of jihadists? Fight the infidel and you'll go to heaven. These people are not afraid of death. They love death, it's what they want.

If anything put them in a cell and only give them pork for food. That would actually be dissuasive.

 

They'll come back stupido?? Jeezus!

 

Life imprisonment is a thing. It's cheaper than the death penalty. There's not a single rational argument for wanting the death penalty over life in prison.

 

Oh death where is thy sting?? But they'll get out of prison at the end of their sentence won't they ffs!!!!!!! <Mod Edit- Rule 4>

 

For a long time ? The guys who helped the people who murdered 130 people got 2 or 3 years of prison, some people who came back from Syria face no prison at all.

 

Well maybe you should come up with ideas to address that problem then. It isn’t really related to the issue of jihadists returning from Syria.

They’re not that much richer than France and maybe they have lower crime rates because they invested in more forward thinking policies. There would be cost and effort in improving the criminal justice system but done properly it would be a beneficial investment. It’d probably be no more expensive than endlessly adding more and more prison places or implementing a legitimate capital punishment system.

Again, that isn’t a function of any actual rehabilitation policy. I’m not talking about releasing prisoners any earlier than they are already, it’s about better management of them when they are which actually reduces the risk of reoffending.

Yet you’re promoting longer sentences and hence even more prisoners. Capital punishment is irrelevant to this question assuming it’s only for the most serious and heinous crimes. To impact prison numbers, you’d have to be proposing executing thousands of criminals for comparatively lesser offences.

Even though there is no reason to believe that would reduce Jihadism and every reason to fear it would inspire more? I think that for something as significant and irreversible as the death penalty, you’d need to be able to present definitive evidence of actual benefit to justify it.

In general I think you’re bouncing back and forth on the basis of emotive reaction (however well meaning) rather than approaching these various difficult issues with a neutral and rational approach.

 

You mean cherry pick?
(Take what you want from the EU leave what you don't).
Cherry picking is something that you can't do in the EU, and there's no capital punishment in the EU.

 

Agreed, the sentences are too lenient. But that's because the law isn't applied.

Still no justification for the death penalty. There isn't a single justification for death penalty over life in prison.

 

Amen.

 

I talk about disobey.

@HonestJoe I have to answer you later.