When will man be able to survive, long term? AFFORDABLE?

"So, what's the difference between personal freedom to cut down a tree, vs that choice affecting everybody?"

Whether the tree-cutter owns the tree, or not.

"Do we realize that unrestricted use of fossil fuels is unsustainable?"

It's very possible that many don't realize that there is no such thing as "unrestricted use".

 

Where do you think the Easter Island right wingers told the frugal ones to get lost to? Or did they EAT THEM?

 

Good point. My guess is that there were smart people who warned against the destructive effects of deforestation, but their warnings were ignored because they had to keep the "economy running and growing". If we don't learn from history, we are bound to repeat it.

 

73% of my countries energy comes from coal, yet we have ample uranium reserves. Their use for nuclear power has been banned by a coalition of pro-coal conservatives and pro-renewables environmentalists.

Is the situation dire enough to warrant the use of abundant, 0% greenhouse gas energy? I used to be anti-nuclear, but now...

 

My guess is you are referring to the futile arguments of some economists that we'll never run out of oil, because eventually it will be too expensive, so we'll stop drilling for it. However, that argument is just playing semantics, because long before that time the rate of production will have tanked.

 

While we extinct ourselves and all others, we do have myriad worthwhile distractions, to make life worth living.

Jenna Dewan is getting shamed for posting underwear campaign pics after split from Channing Tatum
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/jen...aign-pics-channing-tatum-split-100118953.html


Carrie Underwood's scar visible as star details fall: 'I didn't know how things were going to end up'
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment...-3df69043cbb9/ss_carrie-underwood's-scar.html

New Details About The $10 Million Dollar Contract Kris Jenner Reportedly Made Tristan Thompson Sign So He Doesn't Cheat On Khloe Again
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/details-10-million-dollar-contract-023537915.html

 

I think that you, sort-of get my point. I mean that anything, which has a cost, is, by definition, restricted.

Sorry, is there a way that you could rephrase this?

I'm having a hard time, trying to interpret it in a way that makes sense, to me.

Isn't it contradictory to say that we'll never run out oil because it will become to expensive to use, is incorrect because production will have tanked before then?

Are you, maybe, assuming some type of political action forcing the issue? If so, laws must be considered to be a cost.

 

Yes, I am referring to political action, namely accelerating research and development of renewable energy sources.

Second, to make my point more clear regarding never running out of oil: Technically, this argument is correct. Oil can only be extracted if it costs less energy to extract it, compared to the energy content of that same amount oil to begin with. This is called EROI or energy returned on energy invested. Once EROI is 1 or less, it makes no economic sense to keep extracting that oil. Therefore, some oil will still remain in the ground, because it is very hard to get to it.

For all practical purposes, though, when we get to this scenario, oil won't be useful anymore as an energy source, and we have practically run out of it. The rate of oil production will have dropped long before we reach that point. EROI for oil was at 100+, when we first started drilling more than 100 years ago. Now, domestic oil has an EROI of 3-7. Some people say that an EROI of 3 (shale oil) is already almost economically useless. EROI continues to go down. When economic activity starts picking up again in the western world, and the developing countries start catching up to western living standards, watch out for the next oil crisis.

 

Nuclear Energy kicks ass

 

A little nukie never hurt anyone.

 

Sorry for editing my post while you were responding to it.

Regarding the discussion: From my perspective, you and I are saying the same thing; just in different ways. I only differ from you, in the belief that politicians should get in and bugger up what the marketplace will correct for.

 

How EXACTLY will the MARKET correct for non profitability?

 

Except that the market didn't fix it for the Easter Islanders when they ran out of trees. Regulations on tree cutting and/or planting of new trees for every one that is cut down would, however, have worked. I am not sure why we think the market will fix it for us when oil becomes too expensive.

 

Is there some context this fits into, or are we playing random questions?

In general, if a company is not profitable, it will have to either become profitable, raise money, or go out of business.

 

Good, so how does industry correct for funding sustainability, when the shareholders will SUE, if they do not pursue profits, at ANY AND ALL COSTS?

 

Actually, it did. The Easter Islanders might not have like the fix, though...

We are not Easter Islanders. We have options. We are simply using the lowest cost options.

 

I'm glad you appreciated it. None of my observations are especially original although I have assembled them in a way I've not seen elsewhere. I didn't expect

Here is a fine article that has influenced my thinking and from which I lifted a thought almost verbatim:

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/10/immigration-modern-liberalism/543744/

It argues very well that diversity and equality are incompatible.

 

I agree, society is moving too fast, people need to be able to slow down and not put their life in high gear paycheck to paycheck all their life
not sure how that will ever change though, I think it's gonna get worse with all the foreign outsourcing and check foreign imports.. soon we will be another China, then it gets really bad for the working class

I am getting old, so not as worried about it for me, but our children and their childrens children... could be a tough ride

 

Well, I guess when you call survival of the fittest (and eventual eradication of those too) as a manifestation of the free market, then, yes, it is the natural outcome. That is not a desirable outcome.

BTW: What are out options, apart from renewable energies?

 

Funding sustainability?

Industries do what they can to stay in business. If they did all that they could and still can't stay in business, they go out of business.

 

Some things are of course arbitrary. I don't think we know if Easter Island set out personal and state property, or if everyone could cut anywhere- but try cutting your neighbors tree down here, and you have a problem. We are working on those issues certainly. How much and what we should do is constantly being argued- but it's not being ignored. People usually don't think ahead very far, when something they need or want now is on the other side of the scale- and that applies to all aspects of human life. Perhaps you are aware that a great deal of progress has been made is sustainable energy sources for example, and that continues to improve. We don't know how to do it all right now, but it's growing.

Now if we could make similar progress in the ability of people to gain and use wisdom, we would have solved the majority of all problems. Go to work on that.

 

.00002%

 

"BTW: What are out options, apart from renewable energies?"

Why exclude renewables; especially when they seem to be the thrust of this thread?

Anyway, excluding renewables, there is nuclear (I'm assuming that oil, gas, and coal are already being taken into account).

I can't think of any others.

 

You are still, and forever, making ENERGY the basis of your society. that is old fashioned, at some level.

 

Death is the current fad?

Without energy, all motion, all life stops.

Also, we will never have the power to eliminate energy.