Time to Get Out of Afghanistan

Neocon journo Robert Kaplan writes in neocon central rag the NYT's that it's time to get out of Afghanistan. Colour me surprised ---- a neocon pulling back on war.

Kaplan writes that "no other country in the world symbolises the decline of American power than Afghanistan". Really? What about Vietnam? Vietnam was the very first country to symbolise the decline of American power and a military run by donkeys.

Kaplan's article has the following strapline:

"The United States is spending beyond its means on a mission that might only be helping its strategic rivals."

Mmm.

Interestingly, I recently read an analysis of why the US may be forced to withdraw from Afghanistan because of resupply problems. This was in the context of China and its OBOR project and the prospect of a naval war between China and the USA, which commentators (and RAND corporation) believe the US would lose.

Resupply to Bagram is apparently is fragile due to failing US fleet of C17 Globemasters that have, more or less, reached the end of their serviceable life and, amazingly there are no replacements in the pipeline and no chance to restart production (HERE - scroll down to last comment). Since OBOR is supported by both Pakistan and Russia (the overland routes for sea supply) along with India sea supply is also highly fragile

And without thes C17 aerial beasts of burden the conclusion was that the US will be forced to pull out of Afghanistan and return to the continental United States.

Many members here will recall how the US elite shifted emphasis - much like Kaplan's argument for withdrawing is doing here - and called a halt to the Vietnam war.

Deja vu perhaps?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/01/...ys6IjdIPDq72kWmeWMLMBImGZU0OWV9G_mHVGBiu4HIxs

 

Pulling out would be a terrible idea. It would mean losing.

 

We seem to learn very slowly- perhaps we just don't learn from experience in these things.
A logical person examines results, and asks themselves if the results met the objectives, and if the choices made were wise.
Choices have consequences, and the consequences are the teacher that should be telling us if we were right or wrong, if we should do the same thing again- or not.

Vietnam.... The price in addition to the vast monetary costs and political turmoil. was 58,000 American lives lost, many thousands more wounded and maimed, and even more psychologically damaged for life. What did we achieve? We jumped in when the French called it quits and left. What did they achieve? Has any of that changed the world for the better?

Afghanistan.... The Russians were there for 10 years-and called it quits, a stalemate. We jumped in, and I have yet to figure out what the justification for that was, but we did. While the loss of life is much lower than Vietnam, lives are again being lost- for what? The costs of being there for 18 years- over a $Trillion US Tax dollars. What have we achieved? Has any of that changed the world for the better?

most importantly..... WHY aren't we learning?

 

We've already lost in the sense that the enemy is too elusive to defeat and staying where Americans are unwanted simply engenders deeper, regional anti American sentiment which, in turn, serves to recruit more anti American terrorism.

The US should withdraw all its forces from the Mid East and finally initiate an even handed Mid East policy rather than enabling Israeli aggression, ethnic cleansing & expansionism which is at the core of anti American regional sentiment.

 

We already lost.

 

And- you can't free people from their own mindsets. They chose to be who they are, chose to live in the turmoil and conditions of their culture.
There is nothing we can do to alter that.

 

It is worse than that. Our military is run by politicians, with all respect to donkeys.

 

No we really haven't. Though you are right that we haven't won

 

The Taliban can not be completely defeated. That is an impossible task. Just like the VC in Vietnam, they hide and wait.

In short, we have accomplished as much as we can. Is there an obtainable goal which would require us to stay? If there is not, why waste American lives and treasure?

 

The conundrum Trump deals with,
Pulling our troops out and the left goes nuts and we have fifty new threads here by the usual suspects claiming Trump is a coward.
Adding more troops, the left goes nuts and we have fifty new threads here by the usual suspects claiming Trump is a warmonger.
Leaving our troops as is and the left goes nuts and we have fifty new threads here by the usual suspects declaring Trump can't make up his mind.
Orange man bad. Democrat person good.

 

You mean it’s a lose-lose situation ?
Like Syria ?

Perfect. Couldn’t happen to scummier president.

 

We should let Afghanistan revert back to a failed state, allowing terrorists to establish training camps to launch attacks against the West.

 

If a powerful state was established in the area it could fight the Taliban until it is forced to disband.

 

Dream on. We have been there almost 2 decades and are no where close to anything like that.

 

Yeah, like there is no other country where that can happen.

 

Who cares about American lives or even the lives of innocent people in the countries our military are in so long as you score a political victory against Trump.

 

We would have to colonize the country in order to accomplish that. Just like Nam, if you fight a war where you don't or can't stop the influx of replacement fighters and the resources that supply them from neighboring regions you can never win.

 

The only thing worse than losing an unwinnable war is continuing to try to win.

Do you really think we're gonna civilize the barbarians?

 

You're losing now stupido!

 

The fact is that the US are losing. No foreign power has ever managed to win a protracted war there. It was folly for the Bush administration to think they would be different.

 

More importantly it is not America's divine right to choose to alter people's mindsets...

 

Yes, but the senior brass in the Pentagon are politicians...

 

Trump is limp.. There is no use staying in.. Even a goat is too much for the Chief National Security Risk

I am still waiting for the immaculate conception of economic miracles that were supposed to make my head spin in orgasms

Enjoy the Mnuchins!! They are Free on Jim Jones Kamikaze Airways.. All the flavor aid you can drink (not mnuchin)

 

Blimey! And there I was thinking that a headfcuk was simply an intellectual condition. Well, I never...

 

We've lost years ago. Keep in mind that for the military industrial complex, 'victory' however it might be defined is not the goal. The goal is perpetual war which lead to perpetual profits.