10% of the population has an IQ lower than 83, what this means

Discussion in 'Education' started by kazenatsu, Mar 12, 2018.

  1. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    yeah Parents, I dealt with them for 25 yrs coaching kids from 3 to 19yrs
    there are parents who are absent (sometimes a blessing)
    parents that are constantly in your face because they know more than the teachers
    helicopter parents(leave the kids alone please let them get on with what they need to do)
    and the good parents that support and encourage their kids and let the teachers get on with their job.

    I had an assistant coach from Texas, wonderful guy he didn't want to coach but he did want to manage, without my knowledge he put together great teams for me to work with...he did it not by selecting the best kids but by eliminating the worst parents...we trained average or weaker kids with great parental support and developed great kids that wanted to work hard and learn...that can't happen in public schools but it demonstrates the importance of parents in learning...

    we can't do much about parents but we can't ignore them either they're not going away, they're always involved even when they're absent... the best solution is to educate the parents, if possible
     
  2. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    May I be so bold as to ask wouldn't it be best to find out what children and young adults need to know for adulthood and then design education along those lines to a basic minimum standard. An example in the 1940's when my parents went to school technical education was a focus as in job skills of all kinds so every county had one or two schools focusing on those my father left school with what would be a high level certification in accountancy today from a community college and other skills. My mother roughly a similar credential in retail sales and management. There was in the same county a Agricultural High School for farm children to study farming and mechanical work and both genders went since a farm child usually went into farming and needed the latest skills and knowledge. And there was the Academic High School which was pre-college and was focused on that although many still learned employment skills since many worked summers to pay for school when they went to college.

    Now there seems to be no focus on anything we don't educate to get into a career or trade out of school as a common thing noting right now there is a desperate need for blue collar construction workers, LPN's, nurses aids and medical attendants and other areas of work like coding which could be taught in High School. And the pre-college preparation seems not good at that which to me should be a rigorous scholarly approach to really stretch the students to work to be good at academic work which is important to work on like a trade. And many children lack what I would call essential knowledge in civics, economics, accepting learning other ideas and debate and civil discourse and personal finance and other areas. My private High School had required courses in speech, civics for a year, economics and I took Consumer Math and was a dumb kid in math but learned for example all the steps in buying a car but physically doing it with a bank, a dealer and having a mechanic go through costs of owning a car and even had to 'buy' insurance. Then did that for a home and renting. It was useful likely the most useful class I had I even learned all kinds of investing money and handling running a home and employment soft skills. Now children seem practically skill dumb and don't even know the difference in simple economic systems socialism, communism, capitalism and major issues with them I did learn those.

    So it seems to me we need to figure what to do for low intelligence children but the rest of them have a lack of focus and other countries don't a child is assessed, tracked and given an education pushing them but not always 'your going to college' and there is no shame in 'my son is a carpenter and its great he has a trade' or 'my daughter is a cook and under a fine chef and she wants to be one, so is working hard in her career to be a chef someday' here it seems society looks down on honest hands on work. And its hurting children.
     
  3. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    you can't compare education required for job requirements of 40, 60, 80, 100yrs ago to today...the technical aspect of jobs today generally require higher academic levels they receive in high school, there are still careers that don't but the students also require higher academic levels just to cope in today's very technically complex world....

    I think you're a wee bit out of touch with today's educational requirements LPN's, nurses aids and medical attendants, physio therapists, as to what was required then vs today... the EMT of 40yrs ago was a high school grad ambulance driver, they bare no resemblance to todays EMTs who have a high degree of medical training and they need an academic high school to qualify for admission...

    I'm in 100% agreement on civics but that to me seems to be a problem with baby boomers as well, too many people seem to have no clue how government works...I'd suggest lowering the voting age to 16 so high school kids can actively engage in the political process and connecting that to a civics class... many will say kids don't have the common sense to vote but I've met hundreds of over 65 types that don't have a clue so experience isn't much help.

    some may but I don't think many people look down on skilled tradesmen I count among my beer buddies MBA's , professors, engineers, surgeons, neurologists they don't look down on me...those blue collar jobs are physically difficult careers that have volatile employment situations, the economy takes a downturn and their out of a job...not surprising many kids chose careers that are less physically demanding and offer better job security...after Uni I spent a lifetime in the construction industry it's working conditions can be atrocious and a number times I found myself without work because of a slumping economy...if I'd stayed in my Uni career path I could still be in a nice cozy academic job...I do have a few regrets over my career choice, I made sure my kids didn't follow my path...
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
  4. Merwen

    Merwen Well-Known Member

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    In Japan the practice at one time was for all involved workers to produce less during periods of less demand so all would continue to be employed. IMO it is a society as a whole that decides who is and is not included in its activities. Also IMO, welfare is a dangerous cop out.
     
  5. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    They can't. It's absurd to suggest that schools even attempt to do the parenting. Even actual boarding schools don't go that far.

    The more you permit (via picking up the slack) lazy people to be lazy, the lazier they will become. You are not helping, by 'helping' - you are doing the opposite. The kindest and most supportive thing you can do is keep reminding parents (and would-be parents) that it's on them. Remind them that failure to educate your children is the equivalent of the lioness failing to teach her cubs to hunt. Remind them that failing in this area is effectively declaring that you don't care whether your children live or die. When their very survival depends upon stability, a work ethic, and education (and it does, in our modern democracies), that's what it boils down to. Forget schools, this is squarely on parents.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
  6. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    That's what happens when you have a cohesive society. Cooperation and real progress.
     
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  7. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    a very socialistic policy....with it's declining population and very limited immigration I be surprised that's a problem in Japan right now
     
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  8. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    there are companies that have had that policy, I've never heard of it being done on a national scale...Japan's culture is quite unique I don't know if many other countries could manage it...
     
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  9. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    And it causes a high suicide rate.
     
  10. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    The world needs ditch diggers too.
     
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  11. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Balls!! said he queen...IF I had them I'd be king!

    One example we are involved with is mentoring a few kids one day each week...the same 2-3 kids per adult in grades 6-12. We help them with course study, make ourselves available to just listen to them about any topic without judging, and once each month we let them pick a place for lunch which is paid for by the mentors. It works great for the few kids involved but is impractical to do for all kids. IMO public schools need to educate without requiring parental involvement...however this can be achieved...
     
  12. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately you choose to ignore FACTS...fact is lots of kids don't have capable parents!! So if you require parental involvement then it is guaranteed from the get-go that many will fail. Why ignore something we know? When we know the problem areas it is incumbent upon us to design systems that work in spite of the known problems...
     
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  13. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    They could if they wanted to.
     
  14. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    At least 60% of a child's education is parental input (even when it's limited to modelling the importance of education), yet you would ask schools to pick up that 60%+ for every child? Insane. What else would you have govt do to relieve parents of responsibility?
     
  15. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    No, it is incumbent upon us to NOT BE SUCH PARENTS.

    You are effectively saying that Govt should raise our kids, because it's too much to ask of parents.
     
  16. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    the social resistance would be enormous in many countries...the USA never...
     
  17. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    you're right but you know that'll never happen it would like trying to legislate the end of stupidity, govt needs to step in where it can and assist kids who are burdened with terrible parents
     
  18. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    Keep on point what does any of this have to do with educating borderline morons, would good parents fix a naturally poor mind or the best teacher magically raise their IQ by 17 points to at least be average? No. So what do we do about the real issue these kinds of people and more and more those with low IQs are being made less and less employable as well. In fifty years even an average IQ might not be enough unless one has some special talent.

    But lets stick to near morons right now what fix do you recommend if the person has a IQ so low the armed forced are barred by law from drafting them during assumed wartime situation so dire they are drafting?

    My take declare them too disabled to be readily employed and put them on SSI and general welfare with a guardian to handle their affairs. Its all that can be done.
     
  19. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Curious where you dig up your 60% number?

    No matter, I offered a solution and you don't. There is NO possible way to FORCE all parents to assist their kids! Using your whacked numbers what about the other 40%?
     
  20. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Now you're making up stuff like 'raising'?? This is about education and presumably how we can do better?
     
  21. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    I don't about your military but mine doesn't take illiterates and how they score on entrance exams determine what they can do, the bottom of pile are given jobs they can do within their capabilities they're not trained for being admitted for pilot training...

    for severely handicapped such as "downs syndrome" they can often to trained to do menial tasks and they feel proud to be doing them...those worse than that are in life long care institutes
     
  22. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    IQ is not genetic. It's a product of parental engagement in infancy and early childhood. It CAN be 'caught up' in later childhood, and somewhat in teen and younger adult years.
     
  23. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    I said AT LEAST 60%. Specialist teachers of the academically gifted will say it's more likely 80%.

    Who said anything about force? This is a simple choice, which every new parent makes.
     
  24. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    How well a child does at schools is almost entirely contingent upon how they were raised. If you're not aware of that connection, you are probably not sufficiently informed to be having this conversation.
     
  25. Diablo

    Diablo Well-Known Member

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    That's not true. Intelligence is partially genetic, and can only be partially compensated for later.
     
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