"Raising Children Without the Concept of Sin"

Teaching a child to be good in order to avoid punishment doesn't encourage that goodness. People need to be inspired to be good - and they need to feel the joy within when they act in a goodly manner. Using God is just lazy parenting.

Sharing is one of the first things that toddlers are taught...but it never gets encouraged as they grow up. How much sharing and goodness do we see in children at Christmas anymore?

Bullying isn't new - but it has exploded with social media access. It isn't lacking a fear of hell that has seen the increase in this behavior - it is the lack of respect for others that has gone unchecked. Punishment from God doesn't make a child instill empathy...good parenting does.

 

I find it very difficult to suspend my natural skepticism when these alleged 'studies!' do not follow sound scientific methodology, spin the data to fit their assumptions, and seem driven by agenda, rather that a quest for knowledge. Too many 'studies!' with predetermined outcomes, and paid for conclusions, do violence to true scientific methodology.

Especially with topics that are historically, and obviously inexact. Opinions are spun as 'fact!', and the gullible lap it up.

Big bang!
Global warming!
Child psychology!
Any psychology!
Atheistic Naturalism!
History!

But this is the tactic and agenda of Progressivism, to destroy America as an idea, and Christianity as a worldview. Both are enemies of the progressive worldview, and both must be destroyed.

 

Conscience and instinct are much better at 'moral arbitration' than elitist decree...

 

Which is how I raised my kids...

 

Ironic PROJECTION since it was YOUR allegation that DEBUNKED!

 

Another load of theist bovine excrement!

 

My conscience and instincts led me to reject the false theist dogma that promotes the inhumanity of physical abuse of children on the moral basis that it is wrong to do to harm to those who you are supposed to love and nurture.

 

Actually I and many other posters on this forum have refuted your arguments for Christianity really easily. From what I have seen, you have so much faith and have trained yourself to not look at the matter critically and objectively, that you consider strong refutations to be weak. Just give me a single argument for Christianity and I will easily take it down.

I am not claiming that atheists are all rational. Atheism is like a political belief. People who hold a political belief can be very irrational and have weak arguments and there is no guarantee their claims are even true. But at least in general most of these people with the political belief respect the evidence and try to base their beliefs on evidence. That is why you don't hear people reaffirming their faith in political discussions.

Religion bases belief on faith rather than evidence and tries to instill faith in children which is basically brainwashing. Here are some indications of irrational religious faith:
1: Demonizing/Punishing/Discouragement of non-believers, critics, or believers who question.
2: Encouragement/reward for people simply for believing and also for belief without evidence.
3: Placing a lot of effort on reaffirming that belief rather than questioning it. A lot of this is done through many communal ceremonies and learning about the beliefs.
4: A strong focus on worship and making that a big part of people's lives. There is often this idea of veneration or holiness for certain objects, people, and places.
4: Attempting to create a community around their organization and making their organization central to people's lives. They specifically target children.
5: A lack of looking at arguments from the other side or of questioning your own beliefs.
6: Feeling like it is totally ok to justify a belief merely on faith when asked for the evidence/basis of that belief.
7: Having generally weak arguments for the belief that are very easy for an objective person to refute.
8: When looking at the evidence for your belief, you focus on trying to prove your belief true, not believing what the facts point to.
9: A strong focus on conversion and getting members to spread the world. This conversion is often not done with debates and logical arguments and instead by preaching teachings and cultivating faith.
10: A general suspicion and disregard for experts who generally have conflicting evidence-based beliefs like scientists, historians, doctors, etc. There are often conspiracy theories about them supressing the truth.

 

..in your dreams..

You can dance around fist pumping with your cronies all you want. That is a poor substitute for reason.

 

I think you have deluded yourself into believing that you have refuted everybody when really you are constantly being refuted but refuse to see this. I have seen posters of all sorts of beliefs like this. They put out these very weak arguments and are constantly being refuted but yet profess how well they take own other arguments and its everyone else who is being refuted. If you really think your arguments are so good, give me your #1 strongest argument for Christianity, and I will very easily take it apart. You will probably deny that I did take it apart even though it is very clear that I did. Christianity just doesn't have any solid arguments that can't be easily refuted.

 

So..... the issue is, what is corporal punishment? In the economy of men and women of faith, it is defined as, "a rod of correction". .... a mere tool to guide ones behavior for their own good. In the economy of a secular humanist striving for "moral relativity" or even a religious zealot, it could very well mean a severe beating, for punishment or even for the joy of inflicting pain. Regardless, without a sovereign God, who's to say your ideas amount to anything better than mine?

 

Sounds like a challenge! I'm not sure of any value of such a thing, but I'm game.. my competitive juices can get going!

How do you want to do it? I don't have a lot of time for this venture, but it would likely not take very long, anyway. I'm pretty confident in both my knowledge base, and my ability to express myself.. are you sure you're up for this?

 

I am super confident I can refute any Christian argument. It is a useless skill that I have and spent far too much time practicing and perfecting. Since you are a busy person, then up to three arguments I guess, if you so choose.

 

This would be like arguing whether or not the sun will come up next week.....futile. Either you believe or you don't. No skin off my back. It is never my burden.

 

There is no sovereign god.

 

Yes, there is an old saying, "you don't have to teach kids to be bad".

 

obviously to you there isn't. The point being....your thoughts are no more valid than mine.

 

Deliberatly confusing harsh corporal punishment and or physically harming a child with a spanking is a bit disingenuous.

 

Yes and your god has yet to weigh in the matter through posts.

 

How did you manage to decide that the big bang or any other science based theories on the origin of the universe is considered by anyone as " settled sciene"

Now believing that god created the universe is certainly " settled superstition" at least among those incapable of critical thinking.

 

What is disingenuous is PRETENDING that it is NOT harmful for an ADULT to inflict physical abuse on a small child.

What is even more disingenuous is PRETENDING that ALL adults are capable of KNOWING exctly how hard they are actually hitting a small child.

And the MOST disingenuous of all is the absurd PRESUMPTION that adults NEVER inflict physical abuse on a child when they are in a negative emotional state of mind.

 

There is very strong evidence the sun is coming up next week. We understand how gravity works, how the planets move around the sun, and how the sun works. The same cannot be said for the claim that the first humans were tricked into eating a magical apple by a talking snake.

 

My parenting style would likely be considered unusual by many. Not once did I ever use the phrase "because I said so". I figured that If I could not come up with a logical explanation for what I was doing - perhaps I should not be doing it.

Sometimes we would debate - as parents and children often do - Sometimes- although it was not easy for the kid to out debate his Father - the kid would win. If I can not come up with logical and coherent justification - better than my kid - the kid wins .. what can I say ?

I remember one time (and this happened only once) when the kid spiraled. We were driving somewhere - the kid wanted something - I said no - and all of a sudden my Child turned into a demon. I pulled over and stopped the car - and said "LOOK - we cant do this because - followed by reasons". The Kid immediately did a 180 and the demon was gone.

There was one time when I used physical discipline - and only once. The did was spinning around in the room with a blanket. After some time I said OK .. that's enough. Kid kept spinning. .. again I said "quit that"... Still spinning. Then he knocked a x-Large cup of Coke - which was full - the kind you get when you order a pizza - all over the carpet.

Finally the kid stopped spinning. I said - get over here - he came over. I said - Look at this. He looked - then laughed.

I said - you think that's funny ? Yes responded the kid. Like a flash of lightning the kid was over my knee - whack whack whack .. and like a flash I stood him back up. You still think that's funny I said ! .. Whaaaaa Whaaaa.

It was not for knocking the cup over that he got spanked - it was for the insolence. Was not a severe beating either .. just enough to sink in ... probably 5 smacks or so.

Later on - when he was in Grade 9 - he broke his wrist skateboarding. Went to the hospital and had it reset - they actually put the kid out to do this. When looking at the x-rays later - the wrist was reset perfectly... apparently sometimes things don't go so well ... fantastic.

A number of weeks later - the kid is still in a cast. He says to me -"Dad - can I go to a Halloween party" ... followed by "there won't be any drinking there".

I said .. I don't care about drinking ... ( I have always been a proponent of letting the kid drink at home in a controlled environment - better than experimenting in an uncontrolled environment and it is something that people need to learn how to do - that way when in a non controlled environment the kid at least has some experience - Funny though how when you offer a kid something - it becomes no big deal so they are less likely to abuse) ... what I am concerned about is your wrist.... you saw the x-ray .. its set perfectly. Who knows what can happen at a party - kids get rowdy and accidents happen - often unintended. There are going to be many parties .. but you only have one wrist .. and if you rebreak it things might not turn out so well.

After making my argument I then said but, I am not going to tell you what to do .. you are old enough to make this decision for yourself. If you want to risk breaking your wrist again it is your choice.

I won't say that this was an easy decision. I will say that it was a calculated risk on my part - keeping in mind the long history of debate.

The Kid never went to the party

 

Discomfort is a great teacher, and it happens naturally. I stopped sticking my finger in a light socket after one time. This is the principle behind physical punishment, to teach. The parents who abused ruined it for responsible teachers.

 

You say you don't believe in Him, so I'd say, don't worry about it.