Decade in the Red: Trump Tax Figures Show Over $1 Billion in Business Losses

Discussion in 'Budget & Taxes' started by AtsamattaU, May 7, 2019.

  1. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2014
    Messages:
    35,789
    Likes Received:
    8,618
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The interest rate curve inverted literally on the day Bush was sworn in. That was the start of the recession which was intensified by 9/11/11.

    Bush made the mistake of sending checks which did not work. The tax cuts increased revenue to record levels. And of course people who do not pay federal income tax (and he expanded that category) did not get a tax rate cut but many more went from paying federal income tax to not paying any.

    There is no myth. In all cases tax rate cuts produce more tax revenue than static analysis predicts. Plus they stimulate economic growth.

    Debt went up overall but deficits were coming down until the housing bubble/financial crisis. Bush has some blame for the housing bubble which had it's roots in Clinton's interpretation of the CRA but the financial crisis was the result of a hidden land mine in financial banking regulations which none of our economic brainiacs saw coming.

    Reagan spent on military which contributed to the demise of the USSR and which was a factor in Clinton (a supply sider) surplus due to reduced military spending because the cold war ended.

    Bush was a spender. There is no arguing that. But he also grew the economy after the first recession. The war in Iraq was won by the surge. Iraq could have been the next South Korea but Obama gave it away.
     
  2. rahl

    rahl Banned

    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
    Messages:
    62,508
    Likes Received:
    7,651
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Strawman
     
  3. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2018
    Messages:
    7,029
    Likes Received:
    3,174
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Quote; The Bush tax cuts produced the highest four year total of tax revenues (corrected for inflation and adjusted for population growth) of any 4 year period in the history of the US

    Then, perhaps we should go back to Bush's tax cuts/rates/codes, and policies;

    1. Bush's Alternative Minimum Tax rates and exemption amounts.
    2. Bush's marginal tax rates
    3. Bush's 35% corporate tax rate
    4. Let's create another bonanza by lowering the capital gains' tax rates
    5. Let's have another homeownership drive/create another bubble with zero-down, no-down, lower credit scores, 40 years amortization, and subprime cocktail parties, good for the economy.
    6. Let's borrow $ 2 trillion, and go to war......that will also stimulate the economy, and generate revenues
    7. Let's borrow $35 billion, and build a fence, good for the economy.
    8. Let's go back to collecting $100 billion in EXCESS CONTRIBUTIONS, thus, boost revenues, and give the excess to Boeing, good for the economy.
     
  4. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2014
    Messages:
    35,789
    Likes Received:
    8,618
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And your point would be ??
     
  5. Pred

    Pred Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2011
    Messages:
    24,355
    Likes Received:
    17,350
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Really? The EC is a straw man? EC means electoral college. Do you know what that is? Do you know how we choose presidents? Don’t think you do. Hillary could won by 40 million votes in LA and NYC and it wouldn’t have mattered.
     
    TurnerAshby likes this.
  6. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    37,762
    Likes Received:
    14,563
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Surprise surprise, Trump was a terrible businessman just like he’s a terrible president. America, wake up and see this man for the shameless fraud that he is.

    Interesting. I'm an entrepreneur and I'm not a billionaire or even a millionaire. My business has been making profits for 23 years. I must be a better business man than a billionaire who has lost some money along the way, right? See something wrong with your premise?
     
  7. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    153,338
    Likes Received:
    39,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    AGAIN the Republicans handed the Democrats a paltry $161B deficit after record increases in tax revenue Why would you vote them back in if you care about the deficit and the debt? in part to the tax rate cuts. Under Democrat budgets and policies we had years of trillion $ plus deficits.
     
  8. rahl

    rahl Banned

    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
    Messages:
    62,508
    Likes Received:
    7,651
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That you argue I don’t is the strawman
     
  9. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    41,176
    Likes Received:
    4,365
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
  10. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    153,338
    Likes Received:
    39,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    He came into office at the start of the recession, we did not go into recession until March two months AFTER he took office caused in part by the dot.com bust and then 911.

    Thank you Republican supply side tax rate cuts and spending restraint and welfare reform. After the recession receded and the Bush tax rate cuts were full implement we had record tax rate increases and the worst deficit of $400B quickly receded down to the Republicans last deficit of merely $161B. Where did the Democrats have it two years later?

    EVERYONE got a tax rate cut. Millions at the bottom had their tax liabilities completely erased.

    They restrained spending increases and had the deficit down to a measly $161B by 2007.

    No he did not, you are falsely trying to attribute the 2008 and 2009 deficits to Bush budgets. The Democrats took the Congress back January of 2007 and while Bush was able to hold down some of their spending for 2008 they cut him out completely for 2009.

    Ronald Reagan requested LESS spending every year than Congress authorized and of course Bush41 agreed to tax increases in return for spending cuts the Democrats never passed.

    Why do you assume President alone control budgets and spending, that is ludicrous.


    The financial collapse had already been halted, the recession was already 2/3's over a receding, the job loss rate bottomed out the month he moved to the White House. His job was to get us into a full recovery and fell flat on his face with his failed $900B stimulus.

    We don't know, with a Democrat House there is little chance to get spending under control that's for sure. And until the RINO's along with the Democrats being voted out I have little hope for the deficit or debt.

    Then why did they lower the peak 2001 recession deficit of $400B to just $161B?
     
  11. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    153,338
    Likes Received:
    39,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Only in 21 of the elections that were held, in the other 30 more voted for Trump. that is a demonstrated fact and the only number that counts for anything.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
  12. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    153,338
    Likes Received:
    39,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Then how come they cut the deficit down to a measly $161B in 2007?
     
  13. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2018
    Messages:
    7,029
    Likes Received:
    3,174
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    AFM, Bluesguy economic belief; During Bush's presidency, "The only factor that POSITIVELY affected GROWTH and REVENUES were Bush's tax cuts.

    In other words;

    Q; Did Bush's massive increases in education funding boosted growth/revenues? NOPE
    Q; Did Bush's massive increases in military spending boosted growth/revenues? NOPE
    Q; Did Bush's homeownership drive/lowering loan requirements increased a housing demand/business activities, thus, boosted growth/revenues? NOPE
    Q; Did Bush's $32 billion border fence boosted growth/revenues? NOPE
    Q; Did Bush's massive disaster relief funding boosted growth and revenues? NOPE
    Q; Did Bush's massive FICA's excess contributions that were IOU'ed boosted revenues and government spending/growth? NOPE


    Last question; When will they stop insulting our intelligence?
     
  14. ImNotOliver

    ImNotOliver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Messages:
    14,692
    Likes Received:
    6,643
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Simple math should tell you that tax cuts do not create more tax revenue. And the fact, that with every tax cut, the deficit and debt increase, tax cuts are not increasing revenue. If the tax cuts increase tax revenue mantra were true, we would have maximum tax revenue with no taxes, an absurdity.

    Look closely at what you are saying, "The tax cuts increased revenue to record levels." and compare it to the data. Whatever tax revenue increase Bush saw, were then wiped out by a massive decrease in tax revenues.
     
  15. The Mello Guy

    The Mello Guy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2010
    Messages:
    109,661
    Likes Received:
    37,416
    Trophy Points:
    113
    They had an economic bubble that was already deflating
     
  16. ImNotOliver

    ImNotOliver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Messages:
    14,692
    Likes Received:
    6,643
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Bush was an incompetent president who drove the economy into the ground. But then, what did you expect? He bankrupted every company he was put in charge of.
     
  17. ImNotOliver

    ImNotOliver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Messages:
    14,692
    Likes Received:
    6,643
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This is absolutely not true. Every year, Reagan's budget exceeded what congress eventually authorized. Then afterwards blame congress for not coming up with a smaller budget.
     
  18. ImNotOliver

    ImNotOliver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Messages:
    14,692
    Likes Received:
    6,643
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I agree. Trump didn't just lose money, he lost more money than any other American. That makes him America's greatest loser.
     
  19. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    153,338
    Likes Received:
    39,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    That is absolutely false and then Congress did not pass all the spending recissons he sent to them. Had they accepted his budgets the deficits would have fallen to under $100B heading to surplus.
     
  20. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    153,338
    Likes Received:
    39,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    What is that supposed to mean? They had a strong increase in revenues and spending restraint on a solid economy and great employment numbers. Then the Democrats took back the Congress.
     
  21. The Mello Guy

    The Mello Guy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2010
    Messages:
    109,661
    Likes Received:
    37,416
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Lol the housing market was in the beginning of a free fall and the economy was built on people using their homes as credit cards.
     
  22. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2018
    Messages:
    7,029
    Likes Received:
    3,174
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    How come Bush's FY2003 - FY2007 Revenue growth rates were excessively higher than Trump's revenue growth rates?



    1. Bush's average effective tax rates, corporate and individual, were higher than Trump's average effective tax rates, thus, Bush significantly collected more revenues.

    2. From 2001 to 2008, Bush increased military spending by 1.5% of GDP (from 3.5% to 5%), thus, borrowing money from China to finance two wars increased GDP growth and revenues. 1% of 2005 Nominal GDP ($13 trillion) = $130 billion, in today's dollar; $170 billion.

    3. Bush Homeownership drive/lowering loan requirements catalyzed a housing demand, thus, significantly increased housing business activities, thus, growth and revenues.

    4. Bush created a bonanza by lowering the capital gains' tax rates, thus, realized gains generated more revenues.
     
  23. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    153,338
    Likes Received:
    39,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    Residential housing is only 3% - 4% GDP. The Democrats asked to voters to give them the Congress so they could better handle the economy. They were utter failures and gave us the worse economic record in modern history.
     
  24. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    153,338
    Likes Received:
    39,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Once fully implemented and racing through the economy, yes. Better than after the Clinton tax rate increase. And now were are seeing the same as the accelerated depreciation from last year is over and the economy continues to expand.

    With the wars the deficit came down to that paltry $161B, what don't you understand here? It wasn't wars that drove to Democrat deficits to $1,400B

    Bush's homeownership plan was to help with DOWNPAYMENTS. Residential housing is only 3% - 4% GDP.

    Yes economic activity, growth and expansion. Bush's 15% rate collected DOUBLE the revenues as Clinton's 29% fate.
     
  25. struth

    struth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2018
    Messages:
    33,519
    Likes Received:
    17,956
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This is truly amazing! The president was able to come back and dig himself out of this hole! Truly the American dream
     

Share This Page