Islam & Christianity the same tradition ?

Considering we have volumes written about Muhammed, from birth to death, and nothing of the sort with Moses, they cannot compare.

 

We all know it's phony, but yes, upon death,
And his returning prophesy was not made during his life.

 

where did you ever get that idea, ISIS has the same Qur'an as everyone else.
They also have the teachings and deeds of Muhammed, which make a harder impact.

Keep in mind, few Muslims know anything about Muhammed himself.
Just what they are told, and that is usually contrary to what is documented.

 

Yes.
The Persian empire was an advanced society until a pervert named Muhammed came along and confined them to the 10th century forever.

 

they did, ask the American Indians - Convert or Kill was a Christian thing too

and look at all the stuff Bush did, they were trying to spread Christianity to Iraq

 

A little misleading there.
The schools were set up by the religions, so naturally they preached theirs, but the purpose was to educate, and train the natives into a European type life.

And Bush was not trying to spread Christianity, that is an outright lie.

 

Bullcorn. What an idiotic post.

 

If you are truly interested in Islam, I highly recommend watching a series on Netflix that is Turkish and has subtitles. It is called Resurrection, Etrubul. It is about turkish tribes in the 12th century battling Knights Templar, Mongols and Crusaders. I am completely addicted to it. Within the story line are many instances of Islamic faith up close and personal. You hear them pray, wish for guidance, use the Koran to resolve conflicts, dispel fears and rage and use parables to teach life lessons. This is how I view Islam having been around good Moslems for most of my life. The series is the most popular thing on Turkish TV and the acting is really good. Check it out.

 

I have my reservations about any presentation on Islam, mainly because I have read the source material and never do I see it portrayed correctly.
If there was an actual movie on Muhammed, taken from the original works, there would be lots of killing, protesting, and general screaming. Theators would be blown up, and there would be murders on the set.

Just like the cheesey one done years ago, that caused a few deaths, unfortunately it was accurate.

 

you don't know your history very well, they started out trying to convert the Indians at the queens request, they were fine with learning it and including it with their own religion, this did not make Christians happy - they wanted them to only be Christians, not mix their religion with theirs

 

Anything you are speaking of here would go back a long, long, time ago, to a very small part of the native population.
The native schools were a product of the 1800's.

 

Its not a movie about the prophet, it is set in the 12th century. As for reading it and finding horrors, I feel the same way about the OT. I am sure you do as well. Simply put, texts from those eras are a mixture of things not the least of which is conquest, subjugation, love, mercy and faith. Given the history of Christianity which is far more barbaric then Islam, why not expose yourself to Islam as it is practiced today by the vast majority of Moslems?

 

You are being evasive.
The idea is to expose yourself to the documented version, the one used for 1000 years as Muslims marched across the lands.
From there you can learn about all the others, or at least some of them, there are 73, I believe, and they are killing each other for being a "Bad Muslim".

You cannot take the teachings of one mosque, and pretend that is all of Islam.
Most Muslims know nothing about Muhammed, just lies told to them by their clerics and peers.

while the OT contains some pretty bad BS, it is nothing compared to the writings about Muhammed.
He was one sick puppy.


The very real problem we have with dealing with these writings is that the sicko sh-t in the OT is basically history of times past.
Even the jews who wrote it, don't follow it anymore.

Muhammed on the other hand was the perfect man, and anything he did is OK.
That is OK for today and tomorrow.
Laws are based on what he did.

I could go on and on about specific laws he made that are still followed today.

 

Look, I suggested watching a TV show about Turkish history leading up to the creation of the Ottoman Empire to learn how Moslems themselves see their history and religion. You apparently have made up your mind and refuse to expose yourself to another point of view. Fine with me. I am an atheist and could care less one way or the other about ancient texts by ancient men. I do care about people though and like it or not, we are a world filled with religion and religious people most of whom are good, decent people. You can choose to hate or embrace the world, that is your personal choice to make.

 

slow down. I see your point, and I am sure there is good information there.

The problem is that you cannot get an accurate version of the creation of the religion, or one that coincides with the written documentation.
If one such show did exist we would have all known about it from the killings that took place on the set, and in the theatres.

I am sure your show does have info generic to Turkey, and it's rise, but little to the creation of Islam.

BTW, It's OK to hate evil.
I hate the KKK and Nazi party also.

 

I am very calm. I refuse to accept the notion that Islam is inherently evil or based upon any more disturbing notions then Christianity. I do acknowledge that Islam does include suras that some very deranged people can use to justify violence and hatred. However, given the nature of our very own Evangelical Base here in the USA, I see disturbing parallels between both types of religious faith. The truth is that most Moslems are kind, gentle and caring people of faith just as most Christians are as well. If some in both camps take their holy books to a level that persecutes people, then I condemn them both. But to simply make statements about Islam based upon suras that most if not all Moslems view the same way Christians view most of the OT is to encourage bigotry.

 

Islam is pure evil, and not because of a few suras.
Islam contains thousands of verses ordering to rob, rape and kill.
The entire storyline is evil.
The Qur'an is a poor source to look for anything because it is written in such a haphazard way.
Start with the Sirat rasual allah, Islam's first documentation and the only biography of muhammed written within 200 years of his lifetime.
It is arguably the most vile book ever written, and would be illegal in a pornographic movie
Open to any page.
In 80% of the writings muhammed is robbing, raping, or killing someone.
Islam has orders to convert or kill everyone.

I am not speaking of muslims and what they are.
They are different as night and day.
I am speaking of Islam, and what it is.
and it is cast in stone.

 

Well, if you want to single out Islam as pure evil you must include Christianity as well since both religions have been used to subjugate people across centuries. These religions were created in a time and place where the "evils" you mention were actually quite commonplace and not considered evil at all. Mohammed did not invent rape or conquest nor did his followers practice anything that was not already in the history books thousands of times over. Was Rome evil? It was not evil to a Roman but it sure as hell was evil to anyone they targeted. I get it, you hate Islam. Have you ever spent any time in an Islamic country? Do you know, really know, any Moslems? I have and do have Moslem friends. By extension, you would call them evil. By the same logic, I would call Jerry Falwell Jr. evil. I would call every single Christian who takes one or two lines out of Dueteronomy to persecute gays as evil. I think you think you know Islam, maybe you read some tripe by a right winger on Islam. But you don't really know Islam or Moslems because if you did, you would not be wasting your time calling each and every one of them evil.

 

I'm not a Christian, but absolutely not.
There is nothing in Christian writings that could be considered evil.
Maybe a couple controversial verses.
There are about 20 in Jewish writings, Mainly Laviticus and Dueteronomy.

I will point out.
Jesus never robbed anyone
Jesus never raped anyone.
Never killed anyone.

Muhammed was a murder, rapist, thief, and a slew of other adjectives.

And I think I stated many times.
Muslims are human beings, and they are victims also.
some are bad, some are good, they are all different.

Islam is pure evil.

I will give you an example you can check on.

ask one of your Muslim friends if they know anything about Muhammed.
Then ask them what they read about him.
If they read anything, they will give you the title of some 21st century book.
Then ask them why they chose that book instead of the original source.
There are only 2 sources on planet earth., and all info about muhammed must be taken from there.
PS> We know more about Muhammed than we do George Washington.

BTW, If I ask a preacher about Jesus,
He will not only tell me what to read, he will give me the books.

A Muslim cleric will not let you anywhere near the books

 

People have used religion as a gathering for a "Call to arms', be it good or evil.
Lots of blood is laid at the door of Christianity, mainly the catholic church, but all branches.
However these orders are not written in the religion,
and now people can read, so they are no longer at the mercy of the church leaders to tell them what God wants.

Islam however is different, where the murder and conquests, the orders to enslave, convert, or kill, is written plainly in the actual text itself.

 

I am not excusing the life of a man who lived in a barbaric era circa 550-660 AD. Perhaps you should read up on the history of Christianity at that time, just as barbaric only better organized. At that time, what we now know as Saudi Arabia was not exactly a peaceful place filled with wonderful people singing songs to each other in perfect harmony. Many of the violent passages in the Quran were in relation to events and places, specific events and places. Taken out of context, they sound like declarations for all times and places just as passages in the OT can be taken as well. As for Jesus, Mohammed actually believed he was a prophet. In fact, Mohammed simply updated the OT and NT with the Koran, it was a continuation of existing Abrahamic traditions. Mohammed was a conqueror, Jesus was not. Yet his followers became conquerors based upon the life of Jesus. Mohammed fought to survive. I suggest you read up on the history of the Mecca, Jeddah, Medina area circa 500-700 AD. Everyone was killing each other so he was not exactly unique for the times. What matters today is what the vast majority of Moslems think and do and they are not evil people regardless of your desire to paint them so.

 

Actually I have read on this, from Islamic sources.
Mecca was uninhabited until the 4th century and was occupied by 2 different trives befort Muhammed, the juriman and another, I would have to look it up
Qusayys grandfather of the Quaresh, conquered mecca.
Quassy the grandson bought the Kab'ba for a "Skinfull of wine and a lute".
Music and booze for Islam's holiest site.
There were no wars going on, no fighting at all.

.

Muhammed was born, and made an orphan shortly afterwords.
He was adopted by the qusayy family, the custodians of the Kab'ba.
he was not eligible to inherit it, for a blood relative, male, over 40.
He spoke to spirits in a cave and started his own religion.
He pissed off the people of mecca and they threw him out of town.
He went to Yathrub, a jewish community, who took in their refugees.
Then the fighting started, all brought on by Muhammed himself.
he started raiding Meccan caravans.
Then he conquered mecca
Then he de-humanized and turned on the jews.

I am skipping over a lot, but there was lots of bloodshed, and Muhammed did it.

and please, you are trying to tell me how to understand the Qur'an.
I would be willing to bet neither you, now any of your Muslim friends, even know the correct way to read the Qur'an to understand what can be understood.

Islam is so sicko it is unbelievable.
It worked fine for 1000 years as Islam marched through Europe and India on murderous rampages, but now we are in the 21st century and they need to put on a face that is acceptable to the rest of the civilized world.
So they do the only thing they can do, they lie.​

 

Well, it looks as if the billion or so Moslems of the world who do not fill your vision of Islam must be wrong then. I tire of these idiotic stories by people who know nothing of the traditions or cultures of the many forms of Islam around the world. I have spent a lot time in Moslem countries, worked for two Moslem CEOs and was born in Morocco. While I am not an expert in Islam, I do know something about the typical Moslem. As I said, they are mostly wonderful people and wish no harm to you or me. The religion did not go through a Reformation as did the Christian faith but it will someday. Until then, practicing Moslems interpret the suras in a modern sense just as Christians do the Old Testament. Was the origin of Islam bloody and barbaric? Yes but then so was Christianity. You might want to read "The Jesus Wars" to get a sense of Christian origins. You need to make some Moslem friends, it will rid you of your hatred.

 

I am not questioning what billions of muslims do and practice for their religion.
There are about 70 sects and they are killing each other for mostly being a "Bad Muslim"
My studies are not what the different sects do.
Mine are what the only documented version of Islam says.

 

Go meet some Moslems, you won't be as afraid of them once you do.