The impeachment process has some serious flaws.

Justifying bad behavior by pointing out bad behavior on the other side is illogical by my measure of logic. If it was bad when the Democrats did it then it is also bad when Trump does it. To lambaste the former while justifying the latter is hypocritical.

 

I didn't say it was bad or good behavior....with that said though....the Dems have said obama's actions were proper...so I fail to understand why they flip flopped on the issue.....the only major difference is the President in this case, never asked to open any sort of investigation, but to simply let him know what the heck Biden was bragging about

 

I still think that's better than having mexifornia decide for the WHOLE country. I'm guessing you loved the Electoral collage when Obama was elected

 

The reason it appears flawed is because it has gone forward without a vote. There hasn't been a vote because there have been no high crimes or misdemeanors, simply addressing with a foreign leader the responsibilities both had in carrying out the terms of the Treaty signed by Clinton in 1999 and affirmed by the Senate in 2000.

Here's the Treaty:

https://www.congress.gov/treaty-document/106th-congress/16/document-text?overview=closed



Article 2 provides for the establishment of Central Authorities and defines Central Authorities for purposes of the Treaty. For the United States, the Central Authority shall be the Attorney General or a person designated by the Attorney

In summary, Democrats have no platform for 2020, therefore, impeachment is their platform.

All this is being hidden behind closed doors in the intel committee so proceedings can move forward in darkmess ,,, so the Chair of the committee can lie with impunity. It may be noted that the chair is also a fact witness who wrote the complaint for the first whistleblower. HIghly improper. As it turns out the second whistleblower was the one who, apparently, had first hand knowledge of the call, though his account differed from the transcript. He told the hearsay whistleblower as part of a well known scam to give the two of them credibility.

In short, this impeachment circus is partisan because there's no there there, just a partisan attack.

 

There are 2 points that I would like to make....

- Impeachment and more specifically removal from office is supposed to be exceedingly difficult, and it is. While it is true that the opposing party is likely going to vote to remove, the 2/3's requirement in the senate also means that several Senator's from the President's party is going to have to also vote for removal, which means that any removal would have to be at least partially bi-partisan. The only thing that is going to coax members of the same party to vote for removal is that their constituents that support the same party are demanding as much. For something like removal from office which is going to supersede the expressed will of the voters, it is probably fair that the removal also reflects the will of those same voters that put him into office.

- It is easy to say that the system needs to be unbiased, but nearly impossible to come up with such a solution. A perfect example is that the Supreme Court is supposed to be unbiased, and we all know that isnt true. Good intentions mean nothing.

 

Dems flip flop for the same reason the Republicans do; because of a slavish devotion to party and a tribalistic nature which allows both to hold the other to standards that neither adhere to. If you really want to understand political hypocrisy then I would recommend you study sociology as it explains in depth just how tribal, prejudiced and predictable human nature is. We humans will go to great lengths to protect the tribe, which makes us espouse principles that are then selectively applied when it is politically convenient or expedient as opposed to uniformly applied to both those we like and dislike.

If you research sociology do not look for that which conforms to your bias, look for articles that explain how and why we are all biased.

 

The mechanics of impeachment are in dispute and as I am not an expert on the subject and assume that neither are you, then I wait for the courts to adjudicate this rather than jumping to a conclusion.

 

As much as I hate to admit it, you make some good points. Yet sadly this means that we are stuck with a system that largely decides guilt or innocence by party affiliation. I respect the few who have the courage to break from party lines, yet they are the exception rather than the rule. In this political climate things are overwhelmingly partisan and I hate that the partisans are allowed to have any part in this.

 

The Electoral College allows the 50 states to elect a president to represent the 50 states and the people living within. It's a perfect system for a country with states and the Founding Fathers understood this -- thank goodness. Those against the EC are ignorant of how it works or just plain don't like the results of a presidential election. I say either educate yourself or accept election results, don't be a sore loser, and support your president for 4 years. Then you can vote again.

 

Politics is inherently biased.

I suppose the alternative would be biased for impeachment by the opposition party.

Ultimately the people decide through the election of the legislature.

 

We already hold presidents accountable. It is called "elections".

 

Which was to a large degree decided by 17 million Trump supporters during the primaries. Previous to Trump winning the primaries Republicans laughed Trump off. Post primaries they had no choice to jump on the Trump train. So a minority in a party decided the future of the Republican Party. It is hard to say that an election is an expression of the will of the people when most Republicans did not want Trump previous to the primaries and the fact that Trump lost the popular vote.

 

The impeachment process has some serious flaws.

Of course. It is a political process and politics is humanity at its worst. All political processes are seriously flawed.

 

Energized people vote in primaries. In 2016, energized Republicans were aghast at the progress Obama made in turning the US into Venezuela. Even Hugo Chavez congratulated him.

AOC was elected by 57% of the 11.8% of Democrats who voted in the Primary election or 6.7% of Democrats in the District. This because, in 2018, Democrats across the country were aghast at the progress Trump made in pulling the US away from the brink of becoming Venezuela. He did it, in large part, by neutralizing the 'progress' Reid and Obama made in stacking the courts by nuking the Senate. Here we are in 2019 and Trump already has a win in the 9th Circuit that was formerly known as the 9th Circus where the Constitution used to go to die.

 

The left allegedly wanting to turn America into Venezuela is partisan propaganda. If you rebut by linking me to a source in which a leftist says that they want America to become a socialist country, then I will ask what percentage of democrats want socialism. Socialism is government control of the means of production, distribution and exchange, thus no private ownership and no free market. I have seen no evidence that anything more than a tiny fraction of Democrats want that.

 

All fair. In 2010, one Gallup poll had 20% of the population identifying as Liberal, 40% as Moderate and 40% as Conservative. Another Gallup poll asked whether they each identified as Progressive. 26% of Liberals said they did. Therefore, 5.2% of the population identified as Progressive. That could easily be seen as radicals funded by Soros to undermine the Bill of Rights and overthrow the US government. Today, those Progressives run the Democratic Party. Do I believe all Democrats identify with the radicals. No. That's why I believe that Trump will win in a landslide in 2020 as long as Republicans don't violate every tenet of being American and go along with the impeachment temper tantrum, the latest in the Democrats' attempts to overturn the 2016 election.

 

The Republicans are hypocrites as they would have a huge problem with a Democrat President using the Office of the President to ask a foreign leader to investigate a political adversary who was a Republican front runner who may be running against the Democrat President. Yet not many Trump supporters have the intellectual honesty to admit that. Nor do Trump supporters seem to be looking at the long game in which future Presidents will be able to investigate political adversaries because of precedence set when the Senate finds Trump innocent.

No President should have anything to do with an investigation into a political rival. Polls I have seen say the majority agree with me on this. The guilt or innocence of a politician should not be based upon their party affiliation, which is the case now. Party should never come before country and our country is diminished when we allow Presidents to investigate their rivals. Those who disagree stand upon different ethical ground than I.

 

Objectiveness is not an answer until you can pry people's minds open to listen and digest competing and challenging positions with the goal of arriving at an answer that best serves the bigger picture. Most of the time we can't even clearly and concisely define the issue/problem! And even if we were lucky to achieve this, it's unlikely we can clearly and concisely identify mutually beneficial goals? It seems much of mankind can no longer solve our complex issues, so what does this mean; have we reached our full potential as human societies?

 

I have come to the same conclusion and think it does not bode well for us.

 

Biden isn't a political rival. In case you haven't noticed, the Democrats haven't picked a nominee. The Democrats who are aghast at Trump complying with the terms of a treaty that we've had with Ukraine since 2000 had no problem with Hillary enlisting the aid of MI6 and the KGB to assemble a dossier on Trump.

No one is above the law. Biden publicly bragged about violating the law, obstructing justice in Ukraine, and using US Aid to blackmail Poroshenko to fire Shokin.

The corrupt founder of Burisma put Devon Archer and Hunter Biden on the board and paid them handsomely in order to use Joe Biden and the aid he controlled to get the prosecutor fired. That has the flavor of corruption that Trump, by treaty, was obligated to address with Zelensky.

 

This morning I'm watching the Earth being destroyed and people killed in Syria and I ask myself 'what could these innocent people have done that is so evil that complete strangers have no problem bombing and killing them? Why do we remain so calloused that in 2019 destruction and killing is rampant around the Earth? This stuff and all the other crap going on today points to our inability to do much better. Meanwhile people go about their business, working, shopping, and giving little to no concern about the urgency of these issues...good luck future!

 

Republicans claim to love the electoral college, but it's not even used as it was designed to be used. The electors are supposed to be free agents who can vote however they see fit. It's obscene that Hillary won the popular vote by millions, yet loses due to where voters happened to live at the time.

 

Firstly we are not witnessing an Impeachment Inquiry.It's an Oversight Inquiry.
Because we were LIED to by Democrats last summer and Fall.That once in
control of the House { a Majority } they were going to make life better for
Americans.The exact opposite.They became preoccupied and enamored by their
Control and hellbent on Impeachment.When taken to task about this they
plead how many bills they have passed and are sitting on Mitch McConnells'
desk.Someone needs to ask These Dems what bill they passed.
Because they surely never mentioned it to the public.Far too preoccupied in
making our President out to be a Snidely Whiplash.

 

The framers were wise to have impeachment and trial split between the two houses. No matter what party and make up in play, it takes 67 senators to consider removing the President.

 

I miss the days when Democrats whined about a Do-Nothing Congress, now they are the Do-Nothing Congress and their supporters are once again proven to be hypocrites...