"Let someone else fight over this long blood stained sand"

Trump Lays Out His Syria Policy: ‘Let Someone Else Fight Over This Long Bloodstained Sand’
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/...e-else-fight-over-this-long-bloodstained-sand

Seems reasonable on the surface ..

“We have done them a great service and we’ve done a great job for all of them. And now we’re getting out,” Trump said.

This point is debatable - and yet to be seen.

From the article:
"Weeks after the U.S. withdrew troops from northeast Syria — launching what Kurds have called an “ethnic cleansing” against them by Turkish forces"

This was certainly a possibility .. I not on Erdogan's - "this is what I really think list" so who knows.

What we do know is that this hasn't happened ... Yet.

"Under attack from Turkey, Kurds also struggled to keep members of ISIS in prison."

This point is somewhat laughable - Somehow "ISIS" has to be involved - but spun as if we had not armed and supported ISIS in Syria for 5 years,

Then there is the glaring fact that ISIS/Al Qaeda is no longer protected from Syria/Russia. The nations that defeated Al Qaeda/ISIS in Syria.

Being in a Kurdish Prison is paradise in comparison to what will happen when the Syrian Army gets its hands on these folks. Assad is a butcher all right - and radical Islamist Jihadists are his favorite target. Boo Hoo ...

but I digress. This has little to do with the Kurd issue at hand - the ethnic cleansing of Kurds.

So far - it hasn't happened.

What has happened is a Russian Mediated Cease fire.
Russia and Turkey reach deal on northern Syria

https://euobserver.com/tickers/146372

This is wonderful news with respect to "Ethnic Cleansing" being imminent .. The Kurds are probably not happy but - it is a far cry from "Ethnic Cleansing". - like what our Proxy army in Syria did for 5 years ..

Finally we have an adult in the Room ... someone that is interested in getting rid of the threat posed by radical Islamist Jihadist groups - rather than arming and supporting them and using them as a proxy army - like we have been doing .. and then got the Kurds involved in our mess.

Thank you Putin

CNN thinks otherwise:
Putin and Erdogan just did a deal on Syria. The US is the biggest loser.

This isn't winning .. This is LOSING .. I will leave it to you to make some kind of argument for CNN.

Trump says:

Trump Calls Syria Cease-Fire 'Permanent,' Lifts Sanctions on Turkey

OK - so where are we at.

No Ethnic Cleansing,

Radical extremist Jihadists handled (ISIS/Al Qaeda - the name matters not) - If you are a radical Jihadist this spot is last place in the world you wan't to be.

To add something to entice Erdogan to keep his end of the bargain .. Trump lifts Sanctions.
Good move - credit where credit is due. Lets stop Ethnic Cleansing of the Kurd's.

 

Are there none out there that think Trump made a bad move ?

I have another thread "Trump may come out of this smelling like a Rose" that is still active. Posted Oct 14 - prior to the Russian deal being made.

Could my prophetic words come true !!

 

Maybe Canada could send in their SJW Battalion to show us how it's done.

 

As long as Trump is in office, our allies will never trust us.

 

NATO ought to seriously consider booting both the US and Turkey.

 

Perhaps Vietnam could send in forces too

 

Did you miss the part about arming Al Qaeda and ISIS for 5 years mate ? An action that was responsible the death of over 400,000.

Would you trust some nation that was in League with Al Qaeda ? - hey and don't forget Yemen .. we fight on the same side as the war as Al Qaeda in that one .. a war with similar war crimes - crimes against humanity - for which we are currently under investigation.

How about we stop the madness ? ... and making an agreement with Turkey to "stop the madness" is perhaps not such a bad thing... Thanks to the US getting out of the way and letting the one of the Adults in the room aka "Putin" handle things.

Oh .. and those Terrorist folks that we were supposed to be fighting - the ones that we armed and supported for over 5 years - the remnants of which are only to be found in the areas we control - because we were protecting them from Putin and Assad - are no longer protected and will be taken care of in short order. Assad Style.

 

ISIS didn't show up in Syria until the fall of 2014.

 

Incorrect - Various radical Islamist Jihadist groups coalesced under the banner of the Islamic State in Syria - which was declared in 2013. ISIS went into Iraq in 2014.

 

You're right.. They arrived in Libya in 2014.

Syria Iraq: The Islamic State militant group - BBC News
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-24179084
Aug 02, 2014 · Under its former name Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (Isis), it was formed in April 2013, growing out of al-Qaeda in Iraq (AQI). It has since been disavowed by …

 

The BBC is correct on the Date - misleading about growing out of AQI - While AQI was part of the Islamic State - the radical Islamist Jihadists coming from Iraq were only a small part of the groups that formed ISIS.

 

Assad is the cause of the civil war in Syria.. The country was a failed state from 2006 to 2011 and he had promised and promised reforms... When he arrested those kids and killed some of them all hell broke loose.

 

Right Margot .. Numerous nation states - including your beloved El Saud - pouring tens of thousands of tons of sophisticated military equipment to a radical Islamist Jihadist proxy army had nothing to do with it.

 

The only one interesting in the middle east is Russia. So whats going to happen is our biggest enemy is going to have more influence over vital resources than America.

If you don't see how that's bad. Well get your eyes checked.

 

Please NATO, do the USA that great favor.

 

Hope the UN does the same.

 

"influence over vital resources" Your words - they amuse me. What significant influence do we have over oil in the Middle East ... Saudi Arabia has been running that show for decades. What are we going to do with this influence ... "Force" Saudi Arabia to sell to us ?

Not sure if you checked the rear view mirror lately but we produce more oil than Saudi Arabia does. Should we be nice to Canada - and stop blocking their pipelines ... perhaps they will sell us more - after all - we buy from Canada at big price discount over Brent.

We produce so much there is now a glut on the world markets. Reminds me of the mindless uranium one claims that were coming out - "Russia will get its hands on Uranium " as if there is not a huge glut and that Russia is not a large producer of the stuff.

Further - how will our lack of influence in Syria affect our influence on Saudi Arabia ? Your claim makes no sense on many fronts

You are right - inadvertently - that Russia will have influence over Syria - Iran - and Iraq.

We wanted a pipeline built through Syria .. There were competing interests (Iran/Russia) - we managed to punish "Assad - Syria" for refusing our pipeline - destabilizing the region for a time so that no one could build. Now the Russian consortia will build.

Our days were numbered in Syria long before Trump pulled out - the writing was on the wall.

The war is over - our radical Islamist Jihadist proxy army defeated - how much longer did you think we could sit there - in violation of international law ?

Not only was our being there a violation of international law - arming a radical Islamist insurgency in a sovereign nation was also a violation of international law - an action which led to the death of over 400,000 Syrians, war crimes, and crimes against humanity.

The History books will not be kind to Obama.. The sooner we got out of the mess we created .. the better.

 

Russia is a long time ally of Assad, their influence won't extend past Syria. We still have troops throughout the region. Now that we are energy independent, our need for mid-east resources has declined.

 

Saudi Arabia had a pipeline thru Syria to Sidon in 1950.. It was always a pain.. Too much sabotage from forces opposing each other. Syria has NEVER been stable or prosperous.

Stop blaming the US and Saudi Arabia. Its a cop out and an excuse for the Assad tribe. BTW, neither Iran nor Russia can make Assad change his evil ways and they aren't likely to send money his way unless he does.

Even a pipeline from Qatar thru Syria is likely to succumb to sabotage again. Syria has always been a basket case.

 

First thing first: let's stop the trend to misread, misunderstand, and misuse simple basic definitions.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/ethnic-cleansing

This is exactly what Turks, Russians, and Syrians are doing to Kurds, with Trump's blessing. So, ethnic cleansing it is.

ISIS - which wasn't ISIS from the beginning, but let's not dwell on details - was supported by Saudi Arabia and the various Arab emirates for a short time, until it was clear that their goal wasn't regime change in Syria. ISIS were enemies of the Saudis. They were supported by Qatar, Turkey, Assad, and the Iran-friendly regime of Iraq.

Let's not forget that the Iraqi army abandoned military bases with everything intact, effectively handing ISIS the weapons they used. Let's not forget that Turkey and Assad bought oil from ISIS. Let's not forget that ISIS released Turkish prisoners intact without asking for ransom. Let's not forget that Assad and his allies didn't fight ISIS for a couple of years, notwithstanding claims by Russians that they have been bombing ISIS since the end of September, 2015.

Last but not least, let's not forget that ISIS is the offspring of al-Qaeda in Iraq, a virulently anti-American organization supported at the time by Iran. It changed its name to ISIL (Daesh) in 2011. It clearly wasn't founded or armed by the US. Yes, we all know American weapons ended in jihadist hands, but that was a blunder, due to Obama administration horrific ignorance on the Middle East. Ignorance displayed, by the way, by all those who claim Assad is the good guy fighting terrorists and jihadists, when his ally Hezbollah is a terrorist jihadist organization founded and funded by Iran, another Assad ally.

 

I don't just blame the US and your beloved El Saud - the nation who can do no wrong - and has a stellar record of women's rights - in your mind.

Arming and supporting the Radical Islamist proxy army in Syria was a coordinated effort of numerous nation states - Qatar, Britain, France, Eastern European Nations, Israel, Turkey Jordan -and other Gulf States.

The only "cop out" here is your continued insistence that tens of thousands of tons of sophisticated military hardware and support over a 5 year period came from "Santa" - and your continued denial of any and all information presented to you.

13 Bipartisan in Congress co-signed the stop arming terrorist act.

https://gabbard.house.gov/news/StopArmingTerrorists

And previously you were given a link where VP Biden states

So we have all these US congressmen - and the VP - stating the Saudi's were pouring arms into Syria .. and you claim that the Saudi's did not put any arms into Syria.

Then you have the "Reality" that the Jihadist Proxy Army got sophisticated US arms - and other arms - from somewhere.

As per declassified Defense Intelligence Agency Documents .

400 howitzers in one shipment - This is what a Howitzer looks like



How did the Rebels get these into Syria .. smuggle them inside of their backpacks .. what about the tanks ? - where do rag tag Jihadists get hundreds of tanks from ?

Your claims are beyond ridiculous.

 

You were spot on GO - again.

 

I did not claim that the Turks have not engaged in ethnic cleansing - I claimed that it had stopped -for the moment. When you start by putting false statements into someones mouth - so you have something to attack aka "Strawman fallacy" - your credibility suffers.

The rest of your post is a bunch of information - some of which is correct - some of which is abject nonsense - none of which is supported.

The most ridiculous of your claims is when you say - "Let's not forget that Assad and his allies didn't fight ISIS for a couple of years, notwithstanding claims by Russians that they have been bombing ISIS since the end of September, 2015"

The Islamic State - did not exist in the first years of the war - various radical Islamist Jihadist groups coalesced into an Islamic State in 2013.

From that period on Syria and Russia were fighting ISIS - Al Qaeda - and other groups of the same ilk - until they were destroyed in all the regions of Syria except the area under US control.

You then make this ridiculous comment - complete with yet another strawman. "by the way, by all those who claim Assad is the good guy fighting terrorists and jihadists, when his ally Hezbollah is a terrorist jihadist organization founded and funded by Iran, another Assad ally"

Who claimed Assad was a good guy ? .. who are "All Those" Assad is a bad guy - and Hezbollah are not good guy. This does not change the fact that they were fighting against a radical Islamist Jihadist proxy army.


Who is Assad fighting - if not the radical Islamist Jihadist proxy army that took over most of the country ?

 

Aside from name calling - You have nothing else to say so you try to quibble over the use of the term "Nation State" - as if this has some relevance to the conversation.