America has No Allies in a War with Iran!

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Derideo_Te, Jan 4, 2020.

  1. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    We should. They're right there next to Iraq's WMD.
     
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  2. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    The first Iranian invasion occurred near the end of World War I. The state — then called Persia — remained neutral in World War I, but that didn’t prevent British, Russian and Ottoman armies from entering Iran to seize its oil, food and roads.
    https://warisboring.com/in-1941-british-and-soviet-troops-invaded-iran/

    Not how it should work. It should be beneficial to the country that has the resources.
     
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  3. JCS

    JCS Well-Known Member Donor

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    Whether it's a hard or soft war...it's still a war. People are dying unnecessarily & tensions have increased...and the West is responsible.
     
  4. JCS

    JCS Well-Known Member Donor

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    Makes sense. I guess the "stable genius" has met his match.
     
  5. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    People have been dying unnecessarily in the Middleast for more than a millenials now. Not the West's fault now or ever
     
  6. Truly Enlightened

    Truly Enlightened Active Member

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    Are you saying that these actions by Trump, are NOT facts, but only feelings and meritless assumptions?

    Trump pulling out of the INF treaty, because he claimed that Russia had violated the treaty, without proof/evidence
    Trump's blatant decertification of the JCPOA. Thus, violating a international agreement. He is only serving the interest of SA and Israel. Namely regime change in Iran.
    Trump pulling out of the Paris Agreement.
    Trump threatening Iraq with sanctions, because they asked the US to leave their country.
    Trump sanctioning countries, which cause economic instability, and the death of the poor and vulnerable.
    Trump's decision to drone-kill an Iranian General, and 9 Iraqi citizens.
    Trump's Muslim ban, which places a travel ban on people entering the US, from 7 designated countries. With plans for expansion.
    Trump's pathological lying, and misleading comments. Do you really want a list of examples?
    That it is the US that is the biggest arms dealer in the world.
    That it is the US that allies itself with the largest exporter of terrorism in the world(SA).
    Trumps business career, list of failures and bankruptcies, and the indicted and imprisoned staff he hires.
    Trump's total lack of military, elected, or political experience.
    Trump's questionable cognitive faculties(invisible planes, raking national parks, bigoted/racist rhetoric, etc.).
    Trump's history of misogyny(do you also what a list?).

    If you are claiming that my post contain zero facts, then you are clearly mistaken. So, prove it, or avoid it, like most Trump supporters. What specifically do I say, that are meritless assumptions? I didn't think so. What specific comments do I make, are without any factual support? The greatest threat to one-dimensional thinkers, are the facts. My personal feeling and meritless assumption is, that you are not interested in any objective interpretation of the facts. I believe that you are only interested in any subjective narrative, that will frame the insanity of Trump's actions, as simply "America First". It is irrational to deny truisms, unless you are in denial. Are you simply denying the facts that I've mentioned, in all my posts(with references)? Maybe you'd like to address which facts are meritless and why? I didn't think so. I am not inflicted with any Trump Derangement Syndrome(TDS). If billions of other human beings, outside of the US, believe that Trump is a bellicose, idiotic, deranged, and dangerous global threat to world peace, then his actions should be worth some scrutiny. How do you teach someone with zero empathy and compassion, to care or just give a s**t?

    The problem with the ME, is that WE ARE THERE. We are not only belligerent and arrogant, about our occupation. But we are also delusional, in that our actions are morally justified. There are only three words, that should describe our Middle Eastern policies, "Get Out Now". We have no business there. We have no right to judge their religious beliefs and practices, their culture, or their political ideology. We have no right to lie, or covertly and militarily overthrow their government. We certainly have no right to occupy and invade their land, and kill their citizens. We also have no right to impose sanctions on any sovereign country, simply because they refuse to do business with our corporations. And, we have no right to betray our soldiers worth, by using them as pawns, to maintain corporate wealth.

    We have our own problems at home, that need our urgent attention. We do not need to cause more international refugees, more dead soldiers, more disabled veterans, more wasted money, more world-wide suffering, and to spread more fear death and destruction. the countries that we attack, were decided decades ago.

    So please, if you think that my post are fact-less, then back it up. Point out, and dispute those assumptions, you claim I am making. Don't simply assert and deflect them, as just picking on Trump. Your characterization of the Religion of Islam is somewhat incomplete. Islam is a religion of peace. It is an Abrahamic monotheistic religion, just like Christianity and Catholicism. There are factions that will distort, and use passages in any religious text, to commit violence and incite fear(the KKK, Nazis, White Nationalist, Animal activists, Islamic Fundamentalist, etc.). The violence committed in the Bible is legendary. Since the almost 2 billion people practicing the religion of Islam, are not killing and terrorizing the world, I'd say it is truly a religion of peace. And, that the point you were trying to make, needs revision.

    Understanding how a car works is very complex to an outsider, but NOT to a mechanic. We should leave the complexities of the ME, to the people of the ME
     
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  7. JCS

    JCS Well-Known Member Donor

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    So it's not the fault of the Western nations that the ME is in the state that it's in now...that it's a virtual war zone...that hundreds of thousands (if not millions) have died in the ME as a direct consequence of the post-911 invasions & wars...that the U.S. govt. is still warning Americans not to travel to the ME (when, prior to 911 it was perfectly safe)? Are you also saying the Western nations had no interest in divvying up the ME oil exclusively for themselves since the 1920's? Are you saying the West's military invasion & presence in the ME was simply a humanitarian effort to save its people from tyranny? I could go on...

    But perhaps I should use your line of reasoning. I guess since, as you say, people have been dying unnecessarily in the ME for millennia, then the deaths of the thousands of U.S. servicemen don't matter either.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2020
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  8. Truly Enlightened

    Truly Enlightened Active Member

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    Probably the most callous, demonizing, and insensitive remark, I have ever heard since the rhetoric supporting WWII, Viet Nam, and now the ME. Is it our job, to add to the unnecessary killing of people in the ME? Just because they should be use to it by now. But to claim that we are not responsible for our illegal actions in the ME, now or ever, demonstrates a total disregard for the basic inalienable rights of all human beings. This is the same mental demonizing mindset, that tried to justify the genocide of the Jews.

    The West should have simply stayed in the West. But, since we have illegally invaded a sovereign country, we ARE responsible for the death of its citizens. If anyone dies in the commission of a felony, the felons are responsible for their death. It doesn't matter if they died from heat stroke, the felons are still responsible. What you are peddling, is the self-serving propaganda of American Exceptionalism. This is a myth, created by America, to justify American Imperialism. Because we live in an age of advanced technology, the true nature of our global agenda has been exposed. Our government, is a government of just thieves and liars. They will do anything to maintain global economic control, and protect their own self-interests. If that means, making up excuses to topple regimes, SO BE IT. Eventually, America will expose its true nature, for the rest of the world to see.

    It is sad that Trump, like Joseph Goebbels(Germany), is still able to convince so many people that right is wrong, and wrong is right.
     
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  9. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Sorry Trump has nothing to do with my views, History does. Historically the the over whelming majority of Muslims killed were killed by other Muslims, Islam began in violence and has always been violence prone. Further the Muslim world has almost always fostered oppressive regimes. The Ottoman Empire would quite possibly still be a thing today had not they sided with Germany during WWI. The world might be a more peaceful place today were it so. But the French and British, God help us all thought they knew better.
     
  10. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    America has No Allies in a War with Iran!

    America has no allies left for anything...Thanks Uncle Donny.
     
  11. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    I love the smell of hyperbole in the morning.
     
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  12. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    But Iran's agressions are OK? We turned the other cheek and it was slapped as well. When do we run out of cheeks?
     
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  13. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What you say is correct - which is why we should have left these ME nations alone to kill each other.

    What we have done is walk up to a hornets nest and smashed it with a big stick - and then complained when we got stung and retaliated by smashing more nests.

    This action has resulted in the deaths of thousands of our soldiers - tens of thousands wounded - and cost Trillions of dollars.

    The Total Military Spend in 2000 was 300 Billion - after 8 years of Bush the spend increased to 900 Billion and under Obama over 1 Trillion.

    Had we maintained 2000 spend levels (increasing with inflation) - an amount 5 times more than what is required to defend the homeland - even in today's dollars - we could have diverted 500 billion/yr x 16 years = 8 Trillion dollars - to infrastructure, technology, ramping up our economy to compete in the third millennium.

    Instead we threw that money down the toilet - engaging in useless wars with no return on investment (I would argue negative return) - to pad the pockets of the big money interests that influence and/or control our Establishment.

    This all made possible by a massive state sponsored propaganda machine - a machine that includes the MSM - owned by the same big money interests.

    This is exactly the Military Industrial complex that Eisenhower warned about - come into reality.
     
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  14. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    WRONG on all counts!

    Your IMPOTUS has adopted a moronic aggressive stance towards Iran and is the one who has been the PRIMARY CAUSE of ALL of the current issues.
     
  15. ImNotOliver

    ImNotOliver Well-Known Member

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    The West has been attacking the Middle East at least since 1095 when the crusades began.
     
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  16. JCS

    JCS Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes, that's when the first of the crusades began...and they were targeting Jews as well.
     
  17. ImNotOliver

    ImNotOliver Well-Known Member

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    The crusades were Christians vs Muslims. The popes thought that the places named in the Bible should be in Christian hands.
     
  18. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    Where is that war with Iran?
     
  19. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    The Muslim world is a mess largely due to its own failings. With the exception of a brief period in the mid-C20th virtually the entire ME has been under Muslim since the 7th century. North Africa for a bit less than that. Even the Crusades only removed a small area of territory, and it returned to Muslim rule in the 1100s.

    Blaming the West for issues of culture that run centuries deep is not only lazy thinking, but it treats Muslims as a whole as incapable of making their own choices for their own reasons. That is as Eurocentric as any C19th colonialist. The West has done things it should not have and interfered in ways that have had negative consequences, but the fundamental issues lie elsewhere.
     
  20. JCS

    JCS Well-Known Member Donor

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  21. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    America has no war with Iran.
     
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  22. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    What you post is true.
    But when talking about the West meddling is in response to those who blame the ME for their terrorist attacks on the West.
    It is mostly because of the West meddling. We don't see China/Japan and to some extent Russia being terrorized by ME. Because they are not meddling in the ME.
    Let them terrorize each other as their history shows they will do.
     
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  23. Truly Enlightened

    Truly Enlightened Active Member

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    The last time Congress declared war, was Dec. 8, 1941(WWII). So, you can go tell the thousands of families who lost love ones, in the Korean WAR, the Viet Nam WAR, the Gulf WAR, the Afghan WAR, and now the Iran WAR, that these illegal conflicts were NOT technically a war. I am sure that the thousands of families of all those who have died in these NON-wars, will feel much better knowing, that their loved-ones really didn't die in a WAR. This is the same type of mental gymnastics, and inappropriate remarks, that Trump uses to convince himself(and his followers), that right is wrong, and wrong is right.

    Iran, despite crippling sanctions, blatant acts of war against them, false claims and accusation, and juvenile threats, is the country that is exercising the patience of a monk. It clearly does not want war. To the rest of the world, it is the US, that wants war. The world is seeing great power in the hands of a child. Not in the hands of a leader. All Iran has to do, is do nothing. Let the US beat its chest, and bathe in its own self-importance and moral greatness. The rest of the world is now looking at the US, as a government of bullying war-mongering, corporate-owned, liars and thieves. They no longer see a government that symbolizes freedom and opportunity for all. Trump has isolated the US from the rest of the world. We are not only "America first", but also "America alone".

    I really hope, that the US's agenda is to change the Iranian Government, and steal its resources. Although, illegal, and morally wrong, it is at least a rational and logical explanation for its actions. Because, simply causing death and destruction because we can, makes us worse than any of the people we label as being a terrorist. At least their motives are based on their religious beliefs, not on corporate greed.
     
  24. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    Russia has been meddling in the ME more or less continuously since the Tsars were in power. They supported multiple client states during the Cold War plus numerous armed movements. They have been as deeply involved as the West. Perhaps that region's obsession with the West is a bit more complex than you are allowing for.
     
  25. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    I'm right on all counts. Sorry.
     

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