Would you support splitting the U.S. into two nations?

Yes, as people age and gain experience, they are less likely to believe in Utopia, or the plausible charlatans who are peddling tickets to the place. (Ask me how I know.)
But ... in politics, there is a kind of entropy. Some changes, once made, are very hard to undo. Once the flag has been taken out of the classroom, once the textbooks have been rewritten to portray the Founding Fathers as simply rich white landowners who wanted to take away the Indians' land from them (the view of the Howard Zinn textbook increasingly popular in American schools) ... it's very very hard to put back.

Industries can be privatized ... that's one thing that is reversable. We saw it happen on a mass scale thirty years ago, in the Progressive Empire. And Sweden and the UK and Austria and other countries backed out of too much socialism. Macron in France is trying to right now, without much success. But it can be done in the case of the economy.

But once minds have been collectivized, I think it's all over, in most cases. There is the odd exception: David Horowtiz, for example, and the neo-cons. But they're all pointy-headed intellectual types, book readers, like most of the folks on this discussion board. You're not going to see the Marines re-constituted as a force whose only job is to defeat the enemy, where all their habits and customs and practices are bent to that end. Once they have been made to look like a Harvard seminar in alternative sexuality, with M4s, it's all over. (I would give anything to see, in a few years, their DI's going through sensitivity-training though.)

 

I suggest that we just give them Alabama and Louisiana since those states have everything they need and the rest of the nation won't miss them.

 

The problem is, admitting it immediately has implications that we just don't want to entertain.

It's sort of like when I read some on-the-face-of-it plausible conspiracy theory -- JFK killed by the CIA, 9/11 an inside job, moon landing a hoax -- I can't help but think, "If this is true ... the implications are stunning ..." and it automatically makes me disposed to be very skeptical of said theory. (Which I am in all those cases.)

Because if our fate in a unified Ameica is to be ruled by the po-faced humorless modern Cotton Mathers of the Left, watching our past be re-written by illiterates ... the military hollowed out from within.... it doesn't bear thinking of. So we don't think of it.

My 16-year-old grandson is on course to be a military pilot. To help him, I've subscribed to a couple of flying magazines, which I read before passing them on to him. They're mainly advertising for the latest wonderful light airplanes and all the amazing accessories, but they all have an Accident Report section, which is the only part I read. (I've also made a collection of YouTube videos on fatal aircraft accidents to pass on to him. A bit morbid, but I want to counter that teenage it-can't-happen-to-me mindset) .

One of the lessons I have taken away from this melancholy collection of stories is how often even professional pilots will initially ignore the stall-warning, the low-on-fuel light, etc. It's happened before and it was a false alarm, or something they could correct easily, or something that just didn't fit their expectations ("there can't be a mountain ahead of us, we're ten miles to the west of that range ..." --SOUND OF IMPACT) ..."Controlled flight into terrain", they call it.

I think the psychologists call it "optimism bias" and it's probably necessary to our mental health. But sometimes I do feel like George Elliott (not the novelist [spelled differently anyway], but this fellow:https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2003-dec-26-me-elliott26-story.html )

 

That's the spirit!!!!

I don't know why more Leftists don't embrace the idea of kicking us out. (We can discuss the geography later.) We're all hypocritical ungrateful welfare recepients anyway, devoid of any real skills ... you could watch us starve! And think of the money you'd save for re-distribution! And our homes would be available for the new arrivals from Latin America!

It's a win-win all 'round!

Just as the surving Koch Brother, and George Soros, have united to lobby for a sane foreign policy, surely the far-sighted Left and Right should unite for this project!

The Left could call it the "throw out the trash" movement, we could call it "Renew America" or something like that. Whatever it's called, it's the smart thing to do.

 

Don't you mean just "add to the trash" since a great deal of it is already there?

 

Of course this is the intial sane response. Reform instead of revolution, and in general this is almost always the right thing to do. 'No Taxation without Representation?' Then demand representation. But ... sometimes there is no choice.

The problem is, the Left doesn't think the way we do. We are live-and-let-live. They're not. Oregon recognizes gay marriage. Okay, we'll just go about our business. NO YOU WON'T! You'll bake a cake for a gay wedding! (How that gay couple must have searched for a baker who would decline to do it! And how gleeful they must have been to have finally found a victim.)

They're headed for a permanent national majority. And they will 'nationalize' all aspects of human behavior. Right now, conservatives dominate the Senate and the Supreme Court, but THAT WILL CHANGE. The longer we wait to take on board the implications of that, the harder it will be to escape from the progressive prison.

 

Indeed. Deplorables, I think they're called. We'll live in Alabama and you can live in ... oh ... say... South Chicago!!!!

 

They can't march 50 million armed citizens to the gulags, they can't take 50 million armed citizens property, they can't stop 50 million armed citizens from seceding and they can't disarm 50 million citizens. Stay calm and cling bitterly

 

Or Soro's who is financing all sorts of loony Lefty movements.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/calexit.asp

 

Nah, let the left keep shrinking. Soon they will be gone.

 

Actually, come to think of it, Alabama and Louisiana are alredy claimed by a different group of secessionists:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_New_Afrika
We'll have the Northwest, please.

 

They're not shrinking. They're growing. That's the problem.

 

Not a single member of the NRA so much as spoke out against the egregious violation of the rights of a fellow citizen who was imprisoned without due process by the Bush/Cheney regime so the FALLACY that "armed" pretend "patriots" are going to "defend the constitution" is utterly farcical.

In essence they ONLY GAF about the 2nd Amendment. Nothing else matters to them.

 

Sorry, the entire West Coast belongs to the left. We can let you have the Badlands where you can play cowboys and indians all day and every day if you like.

 

They won't allow you have a 'red' school, where the children are taught to honor racist imperialist white slaveowners like Washington and Jefferson.
You're assuming that your tolerance and acceptance of cultural pluralism is shared by them. It's not.
They think you're a racist at best, a neo-Nazi at worst.
They will decide what your children are taught.
Unless you live in a country in which people like you are the majority.
It's that simple. Unfortunately.

 

Okay!!!! That's a start,comrade!

I sincerely hope my side is not going to play Palestinians-and-Zionists, and let the best be the enemy of the good enough.

I don't like to be landlocked, but many countries are. And who knows what the future will bring, as the Progessive utopia is
implemented along the Pacific Coast?

So, the Badlands it is. (Although I am just a teeny bit surprised at your generosity with the ancestral lands of the Lakota Nation -- that's rather conservative of you!)

But it could be worse. The badlands are actually full of not-bad people, as my favorite liberal travel-writer/commentator, Jonathan Raban,showed in his book by that name (close):
https://www.amazon.com/Bad-Land-American-Jonathan-Raban/dp/0679759069/

Fellow conservatives who are put off by the idea of emigrating to this new Palestine should read Raban's book. He's one of the few lefties
who doesn't despise ordinary 'deplorables', and gives a very sensitive account of their daily lives. Maybe in our new homeland we'll make
him our Poet Laureate, just to show how tolerant we are.

 

No. That’s a dumb idea.

 

Who knows?

The Lakota's might be generous and open hearted and save your starving asses when the winter sets in up there. I hear the Polar Vortex likes to pop down there occasionally. They might even teach those of you that survive what real America is all about assuming that you can figure out how to drink the water contaminated by oil spills.

 

Quite right.
People mainly act out of self-interest. Some people are able to shape the concept of self-interest into 'enlightened self-interest' and come up with a set of principles to which they then
claim allegiance, even if in following those princples, their immediate self-interest,or instinct, is violated.

Thus the rule of law, and things like the First Amendment. You should follow it, even if in this or that case, your self-interest is subordinated to someone else's, or you are forced to tolerate
speech or writing that you hate. In the long term,civilization, and you,are better served.

However, it's VERY difficult to do this in practice. Few of us really believe in it strongly.

For example, when that fake Indian and pathological liar, Ward Churchill, at the University of Colorado -- an example of America's Nuremberg Laws applied to university hiring -- said that the 3000 people killed by Islamists at the Twin Towers were just victims of 'chickens coming home to roost', and were 'little Eichmans' ... the university found an excuse to fire him. Principled conservatives should have opposed his firing, But few of them did. He was technically guilty of academic misconduct, but he was fired for his (at the time) outrageous statements. The Left hate academic freedom and will not defend it, but we should. However, the reality is, few people believe in Free Speech.

When Hubert Humphrey, the Bernie Sanders of his day, introduced the Communist Control Act of 1954, outlawing the Communist Party, principled patriots should have opposed it. They didn't.

But that's just the way people are. At the moment, conservatives are under attack by the totalitarian-minded thought-controllers of the Left, so they are open to the arguments in favor of Free Speech.
This is a good thing. Hopefully the arguments for it will penetrate deeply into the conservative mind for a few generations.

 

Can you please provide some examples of what you are referring to in the bolded section above?

 

LMAO...You might want to call your little Shangri-La something else.
All the real Palestinian refugees displaced by the Jews might decide to relocate there and then there goes your faux tolerance out the window.

 

It's another sort of liquid which is popular there -- 'firewater' -- that we would have to be wary of. [https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/sep/29/pine-ridge-indian-reservation-south-dakota ]
And those oil spills are indeed terrible. I'm happy to know that you don't drive an automobile or fly in airplanes.

 

"The United States is," is a singularity, "The United States are" is a confederation. The United States has been a singularity since the Civil War. This is our strength and we are the envy of the European Union.

As a singularity, we exist as inseparable interdependent union. Blue and Red States are interdependent economically, politically, and socially. Martin Luther King said, "We can live together as brothers or die together as fools."

 

Those are two of the most "diverse" states in the union. In fact Mississippi has the largest percentage of black residents in the United States. Odd that you pick the state with the most blacks and advocate throwing it out of union.... very very odd indeed.

 

Number of point you make should be better understood by the voting public- particularly that when a value is diluted or discarded and a new precedent put in place, it is indeed very hard to correct. Such events are often the same strategy used by the old door-to-door salesmen putting his foot in the open door and using that to make further intrusion. Politicians sell small precedents on big promises, then turn them into permission to pass huge ones. There's an old country saying- "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". Just because something is not perfect, we shouldn't assume it in broken, nor that changes we make won't be worse. Our history says that's usually what happens when politicians "fix" anything.