LIBERBAL propaganda; the DOJ is NOT independent of the president.

He doesn’t seem to understand the American system of government or that government officials are public servants and their first loyalty is to the people and the Constitution.

 

The power to fire removes independence. No branch of government would be considered to be independent if the power to fire exists.

If Trump could fire Congress, would you cann Congress independent?

Trump can fire the DOJ, how in the blue blazes is the DOJ independent?

 

Yes, the AG(or Solicitor General) is the cabinet head of the Justice Department. Yes, the Department of Justice is one of 15 other Cabinet Departments, under the Executive Office of the President. And, yes, the President can fire any of his Department heads, for any reason. https://www.usa.gov/branches-of-government However, it would be prudent, judicious, and wise, for any President to actually have a reason to fire any cabinet appointed department head. Do you really think that the AG's job, is to execute any laws and policies, that comes out of this sociopath's mind? Do you think that the AG consults with Trump for legal advice? Trump is just another spoiled insecure narcissist, that needs to surround himself with "rubber stamps", to validate his enormous ego. If daddy had not paid millions, to bailed him out of multiple bankruptcies, loan defaults, and failed businesses, he would know the value of his true self-worth.

My point is, that the DOJ is NOT a part of the Judicial Branch of Government. Therefore, not a part of the Separation of Powers. The DOJ is analogous to the local police(FBI), and the DA's office(US Attorneys). It's role is to enforce, litigate, and prosecute FEDERAL LAW offenders. The role of the Judicial Branch of Government however, is to interpret the meaning of laws, apply the laws to individual cases, and to decide if any laws violate the Constitution. It is comprised of the Supreme Court and other Federal Courts( Appeals, Claims, and Sentencing). This separation of powers(Judicial, Legislation, and Executive Branches), is necessary to maintain the proper checks and balances to protect our Democracy. Why would any American that believes in a Democracy, entertain any notion of any human, having the power to control every branch of government? Even Putin doesn't have that much power.

So, the President is fairly limited in who he can, or cannot fire. Basically, he can fire anyone that he has the power to appoint, such as Cabinet secretaries(AG). He cannot fire someone who has been elected to his position, such as the VP, Senators, Congressmen, Governors, or public officials at state level or below. He can only threaten to fire them, because they got their positions from the people who elected them. The exception to that, is if the official has broken a law and is arrested, or has been impeached. Otherwise, unless they can be convinced to resign, they must be defeated in an election. Did you know, that the President has NO official power over his VP. HE CAN'T FIRE HIM, and the VP DOES NOT SERVE AT THE PLEASURE OF THE PRESIDENT. Yet, the Office of the Vice President, is also a part of the Executive Branch of the Government. The best he can do is try to publicly humiliate the VP, in the hope that (s)he will resign. Nixon tried this with Agnew, over his bribery scandal. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
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What exactly is this Democratic System of Justice? What specific laws do Democrats use to administer their own system of justice? How does their system of justice, compare with the Republican's system of government? Never mind, I don't really expect any rational answers.

 

I always thought that the justice system should be as independent of politicians as possible. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

Here's a link to the oath of office taken by all US civil servants, including the AG. Please quote where it says anything about serving the president.

The attorney general is essentially the head lawyer for the American people. The DOJ doesn't serve the president, it serves us. Yes, the president nominates and can fire the attorney general, but that doesn't mean whoever holds the position is supposed to do everything the president says. Nixon firing his attorney general is what triggered the investigation that would have led to his impeachment, for instance. The more than 200 years of case law says the AG and DOJ is supposed to act in the interest of the country, the constitution, and the citizenry, even (and especially) if that contradicts the president's wishes.

It sure seems like conservatives know the DOJ is supposed to be indpependent when a democrat is in the oval office, but now they've suddenly gotten amnesia. It's almost like they're all a bunch of disingenous, partisan hacks.

 

Eric Holder: 'I'm still the president's wingman'


By JOSH GERSTEIN


https://www.politico.com/blogs/politico44/2013/04/eric-holder-im-still-the-presidents-wingman-160861

 

You do know that you are contradicting yourself here right?

 

Yes he ca fire the VP is has authority over the executive not state govs or the other branches.

 

More left wing propaganda.

 

NO, the President CANNOT fire the VP, because he is also an elected official, NOT a hired employee. The Vice President can only be removed from office, by impeachment(treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors), by resignation, at the end of the President's term in office, or dies in office. That's it. His authority comes from the people who elected him, NOT FROM THE PRESIDENT. Maybe you can point to any VP, who has been impeached, or fired by any President? Didn't think so.

The President may have control over the Executive Branch, but it is the Constitution that protects the VP from being fired by the President. So, NO, NO, NO, you are just wrong. No matter how much you may want it to be so. https://www.quora.com/Can-the-President-of-the-United-States-fire-the-Vice-President https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=832883

So, other than simply asserting untruths, what are the facts that support your claim?

 

They ask for their resignation...ie Spiro

 

This is not even a debate, the president is the chief law enforcement officer and the AG reports to him. The president is the AG’s boss.

This is the same as the tax return debate, there is no legal requirement for any presidential candidate to release tax returns, it’s just been precedent for about 30 - 40 years.

President trump has the legal and constitutional authority to get involved with DOJ, FBI affairs. Whether it’s been precedent in recent years or not, is a different matter.

 

Even if that were so, normalizing the fact that a President uses the DOJ in a corrupt manner for purely personal benefit is not something we, the people, should tolerate.

Trump loyalists want we the people to just roll over and take it, like they have. We will not!

I know the Trump administration, with the complacency of their base, is attempting to turn this country into a dictatorship. I can assure you that it won't work. And when they wake up from this stupor, they will remember with shame all they have said and done. Most will probably deny they ever defended this behavior, of course. Their embarrassment will not erase the fact. If they want to do the right thing, this is the moment... or never.

 

The DOJ reports to the president and attorney general.

 

LIBERBAL propaganda; the DOJ is NOT independent of the president.
This topic is a perfect match for a notable video from Feb 15, 2020, that talks in depth about this very topic, covering the history & practical relationship of the DOJ & the President thru history. I was most impressed by how effectively Chris Hayes explains this issue & why it is an issue for us now. I learned a lot, & highly recommend anyone interested or concerned about this issue, watch this video. It's not a long one, but it's VERY good.

 

"All DOJ lawyers are well-versed in these rules, regulations, and constitutional commands. They stand for the proposition that political interference in the conduct of a criminal prosecution is anathema to the Department’s core mission and to its sacred obligation to ensure equal justice under the law.

And yet, President Trump and Attorney General Barr have openly and repeatedly flouted this fundamental principle, most recently in connection with the sentencing of President Trump’s close associate, Roger Stone, who was convicted of serious crimes."
https://medium.com/@dojalumni/doj-a...ng-the-sentencing-of-roger-stone-c2cb75ae4937

 

Your statement was,

Are you now saying that the President CAN'T FIRE HIS VP? And, that the Office of the Vice President is also a part of the Executive branch? That the President can only ask the VP to resign? Then I agree with you. BTW only 2 VP have ever resigned from office. So, even the resignation of a VP, is very rare. If McCain was elected President, I wish he did have the power to fire Sarah Palin.

Thank God our founding fathers had the foresight, to instil Constitutional safeguards, to protect our Democracy from Autocrats, Dictators, and disturbed madmen. Especially from a misogynist sociopathic narcissist, that uses the same credo/slogan as the KKK("America First"), to describe his entire political direction. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/america-first-ku-klux-klan-slogan/ Trump has clearly proven, that people will believe anything, if you just tell them what they want to hear. And, a 73 year old would-be billionaire conman, should be an expert by now.

 

Fake news.

 

That is very true and it scares Democrats to death. If Trump really were influencing and running the DOJ, or the DOJ was doing his bidding, McCabe, Comey, Page, Stryok and probably Hillary Clinton would have all been indicted and thrown in jail by now.

 

It is my experience that Democrats are above the law. Notice how easy they launch investigations into Republicans but it seems like pulling teeth to even suggest investigating a Democrat.

 

I was thinking the same thing about having a subservient employee mentality. Some people feel more secure being told what to do and are afraid of standing up to authority.

 

Other than what you conjure up in your mind can you name one instance where Trump corruptly used the DOJ? HINT: the answer is no.

 

Thanks Obama!

 

"We welcome Attorney General Barr’s belated acknowledgment that the DOJ’s law enforcement decisions must be independent of politics; that it is wrong for the President to interfere in specific enforcement matters, either to punish his opponents or to help his friends; and that the President’s public comments on DOJ matters have gravely damaged the Department’s credibility. But Mr. Barr’s actions in doing the President’s personal bidding unfortunately speak louder than his words. Those actions, and the damage they have done to the Department of Justice’s reputation for integrity and the rule of law, require Mr. Barr to resign. But because we have little expectation he will do so, it falls to the Department’s career officials to take appropriate action to uphold their oaths of office and defend nonpartisan, apolitical justice."
https://medium.com/@dojalumni/doj-a...ng-the-sentencing-of-roger-stone-c2cb75ae4937

 

Right. We should never have in high government positions people who are afraid of standing up to authority because they fear losing their job.