Why doesn't socialism work?

Sadly, you're wrong. Collective ownership was imolrmented in Marxist-Leninist states

 

To take from one because it is thought that his own industry and that of his father's has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association-the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it.

- Thomas Jefferson

Government is best which governs least.

- Thomas Paine

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One of my favorite economists is Thomas Sowell.

As he says, to paraphrase, '... sometimes there is no good answer, no good solution. Sometimes things are as they are.

Throughout history, no matter the effort, the program, the good intention... there will always be poor people.'

Do you have to be a historian to understand the basic history of governmental systems, human nature, economics, politics, banking, machiavellian tactics, etc??

That said, my degree is in chemistry, but I have more than enough college credits in other subjects to piecemeal at least another degree or two together, lol...

Been a voracious reader all my life. I was well read before I ever went to college at age 29.

 

Marxist-Leninists are socialists, although few would suggest their brand of socialism has history of ensuring choice or protecting folks' property.

 

You are trying to equated your evaluation of socialism with what Bernie Sanders is proposing. I give clarification, which dismantles the intent of the OP.

 

1. You tell me:
https://qz.com/314271/a-timeline-of-us-cuban-relations-since-the-cuban-revolution/
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...s-cost-cuba-130-billion-un-says-idUSKBN1IA00T

2. Did he ever have a chance to?
https://www.history.com/topics/cold-war/bay-of-pigs-invasion

3. The "nuff said" was referring to the sentence on Russia.

4. For your clarification: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/social democracy

5. See number 4.

6. And yet the right wing noise machine cannot fault what Sanders definitively says.

 

I am? Funny I never said a word about Sanders in this thread.

You haven't dismantled anything.

 

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHA!

Now you are MOVING the GOALPOSTS because you UTTERLY FAILED to refute anything that I have posted about Commercial Loans and Collateral!

Furthermore you obviously don't know anything at all about how the payment is handled for shipping goods.

https://shippingandfreightresource.com/letter-of-credit/#

A Letter of Credit traditionally requires that the shipped goods must be INSURED against loss in transit which is a form of Security. Who pays for the insurance is stipulated in the TERMS of the LoC and it is extremely unlikely that either party would be willing to engage in the shipping transaction WITHOUT that form of SECURITY.

It is NOT anything remotely similar to what you imagine to be "credit" since the SHIPPER will NOT even begin the transaction WITHOUT the DOCUMENTED ASSURANCE in the LoC that the BUYER has the FUNDS available in their own bank to PAY for them. The LoC is simply EVIDENCE from the Buyer's Bank that he does have the necessary funds to pay for them.

Just like the criminal IMPOTUS it is you that is running a bluff here because you don't have any FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE of Commercial Loans and Collateral.

 

FIVE TIMES IN AMERICAN HISTORY

Like so many on this forum, you would not know what is "socialism" were it to bite you on the nose.

It's amazing, the denseness of people here over a simple word that they've got wrong. Socialism died-its-death a long, long time ago. The US is fundamentally a two-party system - one on the Left of center, the other Right of center.

Elections are waged between the two groups. There are extremes in either "grouping" mentioned above. Obama became PotUS assisted by the Democrat Left and Center. Donald Dork was defeated by Hillary in the popular-vote, but elected in a voting machination called the Electoral College (EC).

This manipulation of the popular-voting process by the EC has existed since its inception in 1804 (Amendment 12). Five times in history the EC has elected as PotUS the loser of the total US popular-vote. See here: United States presidential elections in which the winner lost the popular vote

Donald Dork was the last to be elected PotUS having lost the popular-vote due to the fact that the EC employs the voting-manipulation of "winner-takes-all-EC-votes". (Of which its constitutionality is denied - see here.)

The Electoral College that is responsible for the above machination of the presidential vote exists also in the following countries: Burundi, Estonia, Kazakhstan, Madagascar, Myanmar, Pakistan, Trinidad and Tobago and Vanuatu.

No other True Democracy in any developed nation employs an Electoral College. None ...

 

They ARE successful in Europe. Why do you say they aren't?

 

The assumption here is the income distribution before any tax was legitimate. It wasn't then and far less so now.

I guess this takes care of "do nothing."

If you want someone from the Chicago school, I go with Milton Friedman.

It would help if you're going to make sweeping judgments about what other people have or haven't learned from history (see above).

Your assessment of what a historian knows about history may have been hasty, maybe even presumptuous?

Social Security hands money to old folks while welfare programs often micromanage folks' lives. I'm a fan of making sure people have the means to look after themselves and therefore prefer the former over the latter.

 

What post number are you referring to in which I stated that “They aren’t successful in Europe” ??

 

Tell you what? We have a long history of making life as difficult as possible for Cuba.

Who is "he?" Our approach in the Bay of Pigs doesn't seem to have had much chance in any circumstance.

Relevance? Dictionaries are based on common usage.

What Sanders doesn't have are answers.

 

RECKLESS RONNIE

There is plenty of validly historic information at your fingertips. All one needs is to know how to find and use it. Amongst the best is WikiPedia.

But, most important, is to have a topic worth discussing, exchanging, debating ... that prompts learning.

And so far, the Right here has a longgggg way to go to find bonafid arguments. And the Left? There is no Left in America to speak of There are only two political parties: The rabidly Far-Right and the Middle-Dems. There is not in the US any real Leftist ideology being pursued by a competent political-party. Either politically or educationally, such as one finds in any Social Democracy in Europe.

There is a lot of pissing and moaning about "capitalism" - but capitalism is NOT THE PROBLEM IN AMERICA. (It's a "given".)

The real problem is the lack of Upper-income Taxation that began with JFK in the 1960s and became a key wealth-generator under Reckless Ronnie's tax-reductions* (see what happened to rates in the early 1980s here).

To bad for Uncle Sam where the rich get richer and most of the rest can go bang their collective heads against a wall in anguish ...

*Had those tax-reductions not happened, and were we able to lower considerably DoD-budgets and raise considerably upper-income taxes then Uncle Sam could afford to fund both National Health Care and low-cost Post-Graduate studies.

 

How do you lower the cost of post graduate studies ??

 

That's got to bother you. I'm happy with the direction the US is headed in.

 

Until you've bothered to read up on 'feasible socialism', your position is going to be based on spreading misinformation.

 

It's fun to bash socialism until there's a virus. Then it's all "paid sick leave for workers!" I have paid sick leave. Why should my tax dollars go to giving it to people who don't?

Of course I don't mind spending tax dollars on people who don't have paid sick leave, because I'm a liberal and have been saying we need to look out for each other for most of my life. We liberals have been yelling this to you Atlas Shrugged types forever. You're not an island. We're in this together. I guess it took a pandemic to open your eyes.

 

I spent about 15 minutes looking for your post, but unsuccessfully. Sorry.

 

That’s because I’ve never said that.

 

NO DOUBT ABOUT IT

"We liberals" in Europe have passed legislation that funds National Healthcare Service (NHS). Whether you need it or not, but when you need it ... it's there!

And because the cost is fixed by NHS the total expenditure is on an affordable budget. In the US a GP earns about $210K a year, and in Europe, the average compensation is around half that amount. (But, here is the real difference: due to National Post-secondary Education, the European Med-students are not paying $33K a year for schooling as they are - and must repay - in the US!.

For Med-schooling Europe students are paying around $2K-a-year tuition and the government picks up the rest of the total-cost - and for Canada see here.

In fact, funding National Healthcare is done by most countries around the world (even Canada!) - the US being the most flagrant of those who don't. But, what about value-for-money. That ranking (which is assessed regularly) looks like this:

Health Care Overall Rankings, Commonwealth Fund
International Comparative HC performance -


European Healthcare is largely better than that of the US (and for a greater population as well). More importantly it is actually cheaper. Why? Because government-taxation obtains the funds necessary to pays for not only Med Schools in Europe but also hospitals ...

 

The NHS is a tragic joke.

 

You're running a bluff. There is trade credit throughout industry.

If you actually were as a bank executive, it's shocking that you have so little understanding of economics.

Oh, please--you're talking about purchasing goods overseas. Nice try.

You have no idea what I "imagine." The fact is there are many billions of unsecured credit on merchandise extended by wholesalers to retailers.

I ran an auto repair business with 100+ employees. You bet I have firsthand experience with commercial loans and collateral. I also have experience with trade credit.

"Not every borrower is in a position to put up collateral for a small-business loan. The good news is that there many alternative lenders that not only make small-business loans to those who would usually be denied by traditional banks but also offer unsecured loans that require no collateral."

https://loans.usnews.com/unsecured-business-loans#how-do-unsecured-business-loans-work​

You're in a hole. Suggest you stop digging.

 

As a fellow liberal, I agree with your comments entirely, but after several years of back & forth here on this forum, I have less hope that the Atlas Shrugged sect will ever "get it."

 

Maybe. But I think this virus is a game-changer. I think socialism is going to get a huge boost out of this. Not in time to save Sanders (who's not even a socialist), but we have definitely taken a huge step towards socialized medicine, federally mandated paid sick leave, and possibly a federal jobs guarantee, depending on the economic severity.

 

Well, I'm at a loss to explain my own response. I simply hit the "Repy" button in the bottom right corner of posts I wish to respond to, & that's what I did here. So, I can't explain its disappearance.