World Health Organisation supports reopening of Chinese wet markets.

You're free to prove it did not come from a wet market....

I'm not a virus expert.... so I don't know. I do know the CDC keeps an eye on cat owners because of the risk. A risk we're accepting.

Indonesia isn't the rest of the world. You're still busy with double standards.

The resolution for an investigation was made by the EU as far as I know. and China backs it up.

You're just obviously trolling to suddenly don't know who them 3 are.

cluster of unknown etiology.... that is significant.

 

You're going to have to quote me saying that I could prove that it wasn't from a wet market. You won't be able to! Just like the law doesn't need to prove that someone DID NOT commit a crime, I don't need to prove that MERS DID NOT start in a wet market!

I assume that you know that bats are the source of SARS.

I would include any other country which allows the sale of bats, but I'm only aware of Indonesia and China, but I'm sure there are more. So there's no double standard from me.

I only know of TWO according to your own source! Who is the third? You can't say because you know perfectly well that it's only the two useless historians!

What do you think they know about human to human transmission?

 

You made a clear claim it came from a wet market. If you have not yet admitted you're just made it all up,... than you're still free to prove it indeed did not come from a wet market.

We know that because the Chinese proved it. We can't be sure where the Spanish flu spawned in the US.... cause they kept it all secret.

And MERS came from camels.... double standards.

Useless historians? It's a historic thing that virologist couldn't do their investigations because the US government covered it all up! Yet there still is a virologist among them.

How about you go source what they knew when they reported it at the WHO on the 31st of december.

 

Money.

 

Do you think that I said that I can prove it?

So you acknowledge that bats are the source of SARS, yet you don't know that bats are a higher risk of a pandemic than any other creature at the moment? Come on, be serious!

And what camel related practices can be changed to reduce the risk of MERS? If there are any, then I would say that they should be changed too. So there's no double standard from me.

As in Professor Michael Worobey?

They didn't report human to human transmission on December 31.

 

You made a claim, and failed to prove it. That's all what matters.

I see you're not contesting your double standards since MERS wasn't about bats but camels. And the Spanish flu is neither of the 2 and the US needs to answer that one themselves. And than there is also the thing that CDC acknowledges that cars are forming a risk.

What on earth are you ranting about? There is no authority to make them practices change even.

Who knows....

They reported that they found an unknown virus that day. So that doesn't mean they knew it was human to human transferable. I'm still waiting for you to source when they scientifically proved that.

 

What are you saying that I "made a claim" about? I simply stated the FACT that there is no evidence that MERS came from a wet market!

You're pretending that you don't know that bats are a higher risk of a pandemic than camels or any other creature on the planet at the moment.

We've already been though this. There is no authority, but the WHO can make recommendations. Stop trolling. Again, what camel related practices can be changed to reduce the risk of MERS? I don't expect you to come up with much!

You're the one who referred to "a virologist among them." So who exactly is this mysterious virologist?

Incorrect. They reported a cluster of pneumonia on Dec 31.

Again, I'm using your own source against you!:

Hospital staff saw person-to-person transmission long before officials acknowledged or reported it, leaving hundreds of doctors and nurses in the dark, doing all they could to treat patients without knowing about the epidemic." https://www.businessinsider.com/wuh...-december-2020-3?international=true&r=US&IR=T

A department head who asked to stay anonymous told Caixin that Chinese authorities have risked people's lives by spreading misinformation." The false information released by the relevant departments — claiming the disease was controllable and would not spread from human-to-human — left hundreds of doctors and nurses in the dark, doing all they could to treat patients without knowing about the epidemic," the source said. "And even when they fell ill, they could not report it. They could not alert their colleagues and the public in time despite their sacrifice. This is the most painful loss and lesson." https://www.businessinsider.com/wuh...-december-2020-3?international=true&r=US&IR=T

 

You made a claim... no prove.

MERS cause a pandemic... the Spanish flu from the US caused one. And here you are contesting risk.
You're just contesting double standards.

That's not up to me.

Because it was at that time an unknown disease. And here you are not being able to prove the Chinese/WHO was hiding information.

 

You responded to an earlier reply of mine! This was my latest reply: http://www.politicalforum.com/index...se-wet-markets.571156/page-10#post-1071721348

 

There is no question that China has problems. Just as there is no question we have problems, and in both countries that has to do with the guy in charge.

Endlessly whining about China serves no purpose, and makes no sense. In fact, it's counterproductive. It's just a lame attempt to distract us from Trump's numerous, and ongoing, failures with the disease.

Roughly half the damage and death is a result of Trump not doing his job, so I have a question for the Cult:

How much failure can you afford?

 

Your post of 142 says "No, MERS did NOT come from a wet market".
I asked you to prove it.
And now you admit there is no evidence to support that.

Go source that bats form a higher risk. It's your point.

You're brought it up. So you go answer it yourself. Point still remains: there is no authority.

You're still not debunking it.

....of an unknown etiology = unknown virus.
You're not putting a dent into that they knew what it was in those days

Not seeing anything in there.
All you got is 1 anonymous source vs facts like:
The doctor notified his colleagues using wechat (their version of whatsapp) on the 30th of december.
China reported it to the world the very next day they find something new.

Your idea that they already knew on the 31st or sooner how exactly this new virus was spreading is hysterically funny. Scientist still haven't made a verdict on that hydroxychloroquine! You go think about that a LONG time that this is not a field about an instant diagnosis and instant cures.

 

Just PURE whining? Or wanting some action in response to the pandemic?

Half? What are you basing that on? You just pulled it out of your prosterior?

 

Like I said, counterproductive. We used to lead international efforts to combat disease. Now we screw things up.

"Anthony S. Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, has stated that, had the guidelines been implemented earlier, a crucial period in the exponential spread of the virus would have been mitigated and American lives saved. Leading epidemiologists have put a finer point on this, estimating that 50 to 80 percent of covid-19 deaths in New York and approximately 90 percent of all American covid-19 deaths can now be attributed to the administration’s delay between March 2 and 16."




https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/05/06/trump-covid-death-counter/

 

And Trump is responsible for every single failure?

And what's this got to do with Trump?

So in terms of New York specifically, Andrew Cuomo cannot be blamed one little bit?

 

Just as you admit that there is no evidence to support that Obama did NOT engage in corrupt/illegal conduct!

Two SARS viruses which caused two pandemics.

Authority is not required in order to make recommendations.

Debunking what? I didn't make a claim!

It's YOUR source!

And he was promptly arrested for it.

 

Obama is not relevant to this topic. You're claim about this topic was just false.

Not seeing a source. You failed to prove your claim again.

You still haven't been able to pass the double standard.

I made the claim in post 128. We're 100 post further and you haven't debunked it.

To prove what happend on the 30th. Your claim of person to person transfer... not there.

 

of course they do

 

Doesn't matter. I'm using an example to make my point. You admit that there is no evidence to support that Obama did NOT engage in corrupt/illegal conduct, just as I admit that there's no evidence to support that MERS did not come from a wet market. However, there is PLENTY of evidence that SARS 2002 and 2019 started in a wet market!

You seriously don't know that SARS is sourced from bats?

"The viral outbreak can be genetically traced to a colony of cave-dwelling horseshoe bats in China's Yunnan province." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severe_acute_respiratory_syndrome#Outbreak_in_South_China

What the hell are you talking about? I've said about a thousand times that any country which engages in animal practices as risky as bats at wet markets, should be considered by the WHO which should encourage changes. Or are you perfectly content with a future pandemic?

In post 123 you said, "3 studies point at the US", citing the link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#United_States

Unfortunately for you, the article only mentions two historians who point to the US! HARDLY scientific "studies!" And the ACTUAL scientific study which was done, pointed AWAY from the US!

I'm not denying that the Chinese reported to the WHO on the 30th. You however, are choosing not to take seriously the accounts of doctors who are risked their freedom, possibly their LIVES by speaking out! Here they are again:

 

What was that in reply to?

 

This is clearly a strawman. The next time I just will delete this utter nonsense.

You blasted a claim that MERS did not come from a wet market.
A claim you could not prove. Period.

You're goalpost moving again. You wrote "You're pretending that you don't know that bats are a higher risk of a pandemic than camels or any other creature on the planet at the moment.".... and I am still waiting for you to prove that bats are a higher risk. I got a feeling you can't prove this either.

And the Spanish flu came from the US. Doubtful it came from bats. But we don't know because the US put a lid on it. the CDC said that cats also form a risk to cause a pandemic. Nobody is considering changes. You never got passed the double standards.

1st of all. Them 2 historians are just as valid as a flu scientist.... since there is no scientific evidence because of the historic fact that the US kept a lid on it. Historians are the ones to find out who went where in the past to figure out who infected who. Hence they debunked the story that it could come from China. And we got 2 historians with 2 studies... and there still is a 3rd study out from a non historian. Jaw drop.

The point was how fast the Chinese government responded to the world. I proved my point.
I'm still waiting where the Chinese government wasn't transparent about that human to human thing etc.
You're just pushing goalposts around with doctors who played no roll.

 

World Health Organisation supports reopening of Chinese wet markets

 

LOL. Don't pretend that you've never proclaimed someone as innocent until proven guilty! You know that you have!

It didn't come from a wet market until there is evidence to show that it DID! I don't need to prove that it did NOT come from a wet market! That's not the way that it works!

I've already told you. No other animals have been responsible for two deadly pandemics! Are you actually under the impression that China didn't know the risks? They're totally NEGLIGENT!

The CDC are responsible enough to monitor cats and make sure that they don't become a problem. The second the risk increases to HIGH RISK, cats should be immediately quarantined and the sale of cats banned! No double standard here!

"No scientific evidence?" Then how was any scientific study able to be done?

The study which pointed AWAY from the US! Seriously, give up while you still can!

The doctors in Wuhan who provided the information about what they found played no role? Surely you can't be serious!

 

Nope. You made a claim it did not come from a wet market. Burden is on you.
All this is so far ... is just nonsense and double standards.

So what. Can be just a fluke. I'm not seeing prove, ... yet again.
All this is so far ... is just nonsense and double standards.

You're making up a policy that's not there. There still is double standards.

It's a historic fact that the US kept a lid of on. Hence it remains at pointing fingers at it.
Burden is on the US by refusing to be transparent.

It pointed away from China, and to the US

Changes nothing that the Chinese government notified the world via the WHO the next day 1 doctored apped this to others.
You're rants about lack of transparency is still not founded. Just parroting nonsense of Donald, the great deflector.

 

That's not the way burden of proof works I'm afraid! It didn't come from a wet market until there is evidence to show that it DID! I don't need to prove that it did NOT come from a wet market!

Funny how only China has the ability to produce two pandemics in 18 years!

The policy doesn't NEED to be there in order to say that I think that cats should be banned if they were known to present a severe risk of pandemic! No double standard here! You however seem to be totally okay with the continued unregulated sale of DEADLY BATS!

Here's the quote from Wikipedia:

"A 2018 study of tissue slides and medical reports led by evolutionary biology professor Michael Worobey found evidence against the disease originating from Kansas, as those cases were milder and had fewer deaths compared to the infections in New York City in the same time period. The study did find evidence through phylogenetic analyses that the virus likely had a North American origin, though it was not conclusive. In addition, the haemagglutinin glycoproteins of the virus suggest that it originated long before 1918, and other studies suggest that the reassortment of the H1N1 virus likely occurred in or around 1915.[31]"

Which part of that are you referring to which points at the US?

I've already agreed with this. YES, they notified the WHO the next day, but this has nothing to do with the Chinese government's behaviour PRIOR to this date!

Well if you consider to be "not founded", the accounts of Wuhan doctors at the very CENTER of this thing, who are risked their freedom, possibly their LIVES by speaking out, then okay!

 

it is. You make a point, and than source it. You made a point it did not come from a wet market,... and you could not prove it. You're just rearranging sentences now about your original claim that you could not prove and demand that I prove your point. That's not how it works.

China did not produce any pandemics. And we've been through this that China is a much larger country with fast population.

Since pandemics can start by camels and cats... yup.
You're still poised to install double standards.

what do you think? We also got that and 2 historians who published the US government was behind the cover up of the virus. The burden therefor lies on the US.

You have presented no case about this so called behavior. The Chinese government reacting in 24 hours after an app from one doctor to other doctors about the possibility of a new virus is simply fast and transparent.

It's not founded, because China reacted fast and transparent to the world about the possibility of a new virus