Wear your badge with pride! Holocaust denial is the act of denying the Nazi genocide of Jews in the Holocaust during World War II.[1] Holocaust deniers make one or more of the following false statements:[2][3][4] That Nazi Germany's Final Solution was aimed only at deporting Jews from the Reich and did not include their extermination; That Nazi authorities did not use extermination camps and gas chambers for the genocidal mass murder of Jews; Or that the actual number of Jews murdered is significantly lower than the accepted figure of 5 to 6 million, typically around a tenth of that figure. Focus on Allied war crimes in Holocaust denial literature The focus on so-called Allied atrocities during the war has been a theme in Holocaust denial literature, particularly in countries where outright denial of the Holocaust is illegal.[97] According to historian Deborah Lipstadt, the concept of "comparable Allied wrongs", such as the expulsion of Germans after World War II and the bombing of Dresden,[98] is at the center of, and a continuously repeated theme of, contemporary Holocaust denial; a phenomenon she calls "immoral equivalencies".[99] Pierre Vidal-Naquet pointed out the same phenomenon in the earlier version of Les Assassins de la mémoire under the title Auschwitz et le tiers monde (Les Assassins de la mémoire, Paris, 2005, pp. 170–180), and accurately about the declarations of Klaus Barbie's lawyer Jacques Vergès. In 1977, Martin Broszat, in a review of David Irving's book Hitler's War, maintained that the picture of World War II drawn by Irving was done in a such way to imply moral equivalence between the actions of the Axis and Allied states with both sides equally guilty of terrible crimes, leading to Hitler's "fanatical, destructive will to annihilate" being downgraded to being "no longer an exceptional phenomenon".[100] Propaganda According to James Najarian, Holocaust deniers working for the Institute for Historical Review are not trained in history and "put out sham scholarly articles in the mock-academic publication, the Journal of Historical Review".[101] They appeal to "our objectivity, our sense of fair play, and our distrust of figurative language".[102] Thus, they rely on facts to grab the readers' attention. These facts, however, are strung by what Najarian calls "fabricated decorum" and are re-interpreted for their use. For example, they pay particular attention to inconsistencies in numbers.[103][clarification needed] Holocaust denial propaganda in all forms has been shown to influence the audiences that it reaches. In fact, even the well-educated—that is, college graduates and current university students alike—are susceptible to such propaganda when it is presented before them. This stems from the growing disbelief that audiences feel after being exposed to such information, especially since Holocaust witnesses themselves are decreasing in number.[104] Studies centered on the psychological effects of Holocaust denial propaganda confirm this assertion. Linda M. Yelland and William F. Stone, in particular, show that Denial essays decrease readers' belief in the Holocaust, regardless of their prior Holocaust awareness.[105] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial Just about all these tactics have been used in this thread.
I was hoping that by now you were capable of composing your own factual rebuttal(s) and am not interested in the dishonest slander and evasions promulgated by the propagandists at the Zionist dominated Wikipedia (1), (2),(3), (4). By only focusing on name calling, you're only confirming the fact that you cannot refute anything I've both written and supported through this thread that debunks the standard holocaust narrative. How about sticking to the topic at hand and focusing on the facts rather than resorting to puerile name calling and evasive pigeon holing? (1) "Zionist Control of WikiPedia" http://www.ascertainthetruth.com/at...ls-the-media/429-zionist-control-of-wikipedia (2). "How Israel and its partisans work to censor the Internet" https://israelpalestinenews.org/israel-partisans-work-censor-internet/ EXCERPT " Campaign to infiltrate Wikipedia CAMERA called for volunteers to secretly work on editing Wikipedia entries. It emphasized the importance of keeping the project secret. Volunteers were schooled in ways to elude detection. After they signed up as editors, they were to “avoid editing Israel-related articles for a short period of time.”CONTINUED (3). "Course: Zionist Editing on Wikipedia" (4) "The right's latest weapon: 'Zionist editing' on Wikipedia" Haaretz" https://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2010/08/the-rights-latest-weapon-zionist-editing-on-wikipedia-haaretz.html EXCERPT"Now the Yesha Council of settlements and another right-wing group, Israel Sheli, are embarking on a Wikipedia battle: Zionist editing on the Web-based encyclopedia. The course was designed to teach how to register for, contribute to and edit for Wikipedia."CONTINUED
There was a holocaust, but the germans were the victims read my footer for the hatred, the J-W final solution for the german race.
Of course you're only capable of name calling as an evasion ploy to avoid confronting the facts I've posted through this thread and specifically in my Post # 1578 - Neither Churchill, de Gaulle nor Eisenhower felt that what has only recently been named THE Holocaust was horrific enough to include in their extensive WW2 post war books. - There was no mention of a systematic and industrial extermination plan or homicidal gas chambers in any of the intercepted German radio transmissions(1) nor did the Germans have a secret code or communicate telepathically. - Unlike Stalin, Churchill & Eisenhower, there is no written order from Hitler for the destruction of any group of people.(2) - If the Nazis had been determined to wipe out all of Europe's Jews, there would not have been any Jewish members of the Nazi Party and Jewish soldiers would not have comprised 150,000 members of Hitler's military. - The original and most credible 1946 Red Cross report makes no mention of homicidal gas chambers or a genocidal agenda. - Countless truthful Holocaust survivors make no mention of homicidal gas chambers or a genocidal agenda.(3) - Thousands of freed camp inmates interviewed by both the Vatican and the Red Cross made no mention of homicidal gas chambers.(4) - The fraudulent Holocaust Industry-Lobby has been caught in numerous outright deceptions such as altered photos, forged documents and other attempts to fool gullible individuals.(5) - Countless phony "Holocaust survivors" have succeeded in deceiving millions of people with grotesque fictions about German sadism and mass murder.(6) As you know, this is a debate forum, not a name calling playground. The list of facts, above, are just a few of the realities that prove the embellishments of the holocaust story to be fraudulent. If you are capable of anything more than name calling, please attempt to refute them since others have either been unable or unwilling to do so. (1). “THE HOLOCAUST NARRATIVE” https://archive.org/stream/BreakingTheSpell_48/BreakingTheSpell-Kollerstrom_djvu.txt EXCERPT “In 1941, British Intelligence analysts cracked the German “Enigma” code. This undermined the German war effort—but also threw new light on day-by-day events in the Nazi concentration camp system. Between January 1942 and January 1943, encrypted radio communications between those camps and the Berlin headquarters were intercepted and decrypted. Oddly enough, historians have largely ignored the information furnished in these intercepts relating to “arrivals,” “departures,” recorded deaths and other events at these camps.The only reasonable explanation is that the intercepted data contra-dicts, even refutes, the orthodox “Holocaust” narrative. The information does not expose a program of mass murder and racial genocide. Quite the opposite: it reveals that the Germans were determined, desperate even, to reduce the death rate in their work camps, which was caused by catastrophic typhus epidemics.”CONTINUED (2) “To the present day a written order by Hitler regarding the destruction of the European Jewish community has not been found, and, in all probability, this order was never given.” - Walter Laqueur, Was niemand wissen wollte: Die Unterdruckung der Nachrichten uber Hitlers Endlösung (What Nobody Wanted to Know: The Suppression of News About Hitler’s “Final Solution”), (Berlin-Vienna, 1981), p.190 (3). "Auschwitz Was NOT a 'Death Camp' - Holocaust Survivor Testimony" https://archive.org/details/AuschwitzWasNotAdeathCamp-HolocaustSurvivorTestimony EXCERPT "Investigations of physical evidence and original documentation, however, have cast doubts on the Holocaust narrative that has been formed. For example, areas claimed to be mass graves, have been found with modern investigative technology to contain no human remains. Testimonies of accused perpetrators show evidence of outright fabrication, or were obtained through torture. Many of the supposed eyewitnesses have provided stories riddled by inconsistencies, describe physically impossible events, or were even total frauds who were never actually in the camps." CONTINUED (4) “The Problems of Mass Gassing” http://truedemocracyparty.net/2012/05/was-there-really-a-judaic-holocaust/ EXCERPT "The Vatican and Red Cross interviewed thousands of freed camp inmates at the end of the War about alleged gas chambers. The response was always the same, "The detainees themselves have not spoken of them" (Red Cross document No. 9925, June 1946)." CONTINUED (5) "Zionists Fake Holocaust Cremation Deaths Using 35 Year-Old Train Wreck Images" https://nodisinfo.com/zionists-holocaust-cremation-deaths-ohio-train-wreck-images/ EXCERPT "So, it is that there is not only no evidence for it, but in fact, there is evidence fully against it, proving it to be a lie. Here is the proof of the fake, the star imagery of the dog and pony show, the supposed open-pit cremation of naked, dead Jews. There were no Jews there. This is a fake. The corpses were put in artificially. The image has nothing to do with the war or post-war period. It’s not even from Germany but rather from the United States"CONTINUED (6) "Could there be anything more twisted than these Holocaust fantasists? How more and more people are making up memoirs about witnessing Nazi crimes" https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...le-making-memoirs-witnessing-Nazi-crimes.html EXCERPT "Unfortunately, despite all these examples, publishers are still wilfully selling suspect memoirs based on the Holocaust and the war. No doubt there will be more books of this type. With publishers fighting it out to sell the latest tale of World War II derring-do, or Holocaust misery, it seems unlikely this is a genre that will die out. Anybody reading these books should stop and ask themselves whether what they hold in their hands is, in fact, true." CONTINUED
And absolutely all of your sources are either 1) Not easily confirmable by other members here. 2) Use sources that are clearly pushing an agenda. 3) Thus worthless.
You're obviously just grabbing at straws since you can't refute anything I've written & supported. Where are your sources for anything?
And of course anything we do show will of been influenced by the "Zionist holocaust propaganda units!"
Matthew White's "The Great Big Book of Horrible Things". White thoroughly sources everything he writes about with fanatical attention to detail and massive amounts of references in the bibliography.
Because they had no clue of the death toll and the tremendous will to annihilate the Jews by the time they wrote their books. You surely know already that the Nazis did everything to hide their crimes. Practically no prisoner found out about it. The Nazis weren't all as stupid as Hitler, Goebbels, and Goering looked. Leaving prisoners in the dark minimized the risk of a revolt. Testimonies of prisoners should, therefore, be treated with caution. The statements of the perpetrators are much more valuable. Please look for the testimony of Hans Wilhelm Münch, former SS member and M.D. at Auschwitz Birkenau. Münch was one of the doctors who supervised the gassings. The Nazis saw their mass murder of Jews as legal executions. Therefore, a doctor had to be present to confirm the correct procedure and the death of the victims.
IIRC, Albert Speer at his trial admitted that the Holocaust occurred and said that if he didn't know about it at the time it was because he "chose not to know". I'm pretty sure Werner Von Braun said basically the same thing.
Eisenhower on the camps. Dwight D. Eisenhower on the Camps This is what Eisenhower said on pages 408-9 of “Crusade in Europe” “The same day [April 12, 1945] I saw my first horror camp. It was near the town of Gotha. I have never felt able to describe my emotional reactions when I first came face to face with indisputable evidence of Nazi brutality and ruthless disregard of every shred of decency. Up to that time I had known about it only generally or through secondary sources. I am certain, however that I have never at any other time experienced an equal sense of shock. “I visited every nook and cranny of the camp because I felt it my duty to be in a position from then on to testify at first hand about these things in case there ever grew up at home the belief or assumption that `the stories of Nazi brutality were just propaganda.’ Some members of the visiting party were unable to through the ordeal. I not only did so but as soon as I returned to Patton’s headquarters that evening I sent communications to both Washington and London, urging the two governments to send instantly to Germany a random group of newspaper editors and representative groups from the national legislatures. I felt that the evidence should be immediately placed before the American and British publics in a fashion that would leave no room for cynical doubt.” And on page 439 “Of all these [Displaced Persons] the Jews were in the most deplorable condition. For years they had been beaten, starved, and tortured.” And in “Ike the Soldier: As they knew him” (G.P. Putnam and Sons, New York, 1987) Merle Miller quotes Eisenhower speaking on April 25th 1945 to the members of Congress and Journalists who had been shown Buchenwald the day before: “You saw only one camp yesterday. There are many others. Your responsibilities, I believe, extend into a great field, and informing the people at home of things like these atrocities is one of them… Nothing is covered up. We have nothing to conceal. The barbarous treatment these people received in the German concentration camps is almost unbelievable. I want you to see for yourself and be spokesmen for the United States.” [pages 774-5]
Hans Frank, Hitler's governor for occupied Poland also delivered an emotional speech at the IMT in which he urged the German people to renounce murderous Nazism and hatred of Jews. He was hanged. Unfortunately, his insight came too late.
Sorry for the delay in responding as other interests and projects have consumed much of my time over the last few days. Eisenhower, de Gaulle and Churchill wrote their post war books that make no mention of homicidal gas chambers and a Nazi genocidal agenda well after WW2 when everything that the Nazis allegedly did was well exposed. Throughout the war, they not only had access to secret German communications due to the breaking of the German Enigma code but also had detailed information on the German run camps from discharged inmates, resistance fighters, captured German POWs and extensive Allied air reconnaissance. In spite of their access to all this classified information, they still make nomination of homicidal gas chambers or a genocidal German agenda in any of their post WW2 books. Re: If there had been large scale gassings with long lines to the gas chamber, other prisoners would have noticed since the alleged gas chambers were in very public locations. The myth about large scale mass gassings was just part of the Allied propaganda narrative like the myth that the Germans cut off the hands of infants, tore babies in half, used human skin to make lampshades, used human fat to make soap etc. I'm assuming that you realize that both sides used propaganda and the myth that the Germans murdered millions in homicidal gas chambers is just an Allied propaganda myth that was perpetuated during the war by way of Allied radio propaganda and propaganda leaflets dropped from Allied planes(1). Once this Allied propaganda lie was told and spread, it had to be maintained even after the war and up to the present time. Re: I've read a bit on Dr. Munch over the last couple of days and there are significant problems with both his story and his sworn statement. He was the only one of 40 people who was found innocent during one of the infamous post war show trials (1947) in which defendants were threatened, bribed, tortured, blackmailed and/or murdered. Over 40 years after WW2 was over, the Soviets finally released the Auschwitz death records. While most of the 69,000 deaths were from natural causes including typhus, there were some deaths that were the result of shooting and hanging but not one death was recorded by Dr. Munch or anyone else from gassing. Probably the most outrageous lie in Dr. Munch's sworn statement is that only five minutes was needed after gassing to begin clearing the bodies(2). Even if there were powerful ventilation exhaust fans which there we not, anyone going into a large, homicidal gas chamber after 5 minutes would die or become severely ill. If almost 1 million people were gassed, why does the detailed death ledger list only 69,000 deaths from all causes and why are there absolutely no deaths recorded by Dr. Munch as being caused by gassing? Thanks, (1) “Auschwitz: Myths and Facts” http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/auschwitz.shtml EXCERPT “Allied Propaganda The Auschwitz gassing story is based in large part on the hearsay statements of former Jewish inmates who did not personally see any actual signs of extermination. Their beliefs are understandable, because rumors about gassings at Auschwitz were widespread. Allied planes dropped large numbers of leaflets, written in Polish and German, on Auschwitz and the surrounding areas which claimed that people were being gassed in the camp. The Auschwitz gassing story, which was an important part of the Allied wartime propaganda effort, was also broadcast to Europe by Allied radio stations. [15] CONTINUED 15. Nuremberg document NI-11696. NMT "green series," Vol. 8, p. 606. (2) “Just Another Auschwitz Liar” https://www.historiography-project.com/misc/19981024munch.php EXCERPT “But the most enormous lie is in the following sentence: “After three to five minutes, death could be certified, and the doors were opened as a sign that the corpses were cleared to be burned". All this is utterly impossible, contradicts the laws of physics and chemistry and is a pure invention. This man is just quoting worn out literary precedents. He is not as creative and inventive as Wilkomisrki. In another statement reproduced on the CANDLES website, he declared: “I had to watch the operation of the gas chambers and then, when the bodies were dead, I had to sign the death certificates.” Now, here again, the man is playing on several sides of the reality. It is true that the death of one inmate triggered a flow of papers. We know from former Polish members of the camp administration that twenty-one signatures were required for an ordinary death (33 in case of unnatural death). And Münch comments on the general bureaucracy: “You had to sign a lot: that was top secret. That was just a formality.” But the catch is in the official history: there were no death documents for those allegedly “gassed". The official history mentions days when 2000 people were allegedly gassed. If we stick to that history, Münch is a liar when he says he signed for the gassed dead bodies. And if we get away from the official history, Münch is a liar because there was no gassing. Which lie is the most profitable in Germany today? ”CONTINUED
They wrote their books after WW2, that's right. But nothing was well exposed then. It took several more years. One of the earliest researchers, Raul Hilberg, came up with a figure of 5.1 million in his 1961 classic “The Destruction of the European Jewry.” In the third edition, from 1985, he provided a lengthy appendix explaining how he calculated the estimate. Large-scale gassings happened at Birkenau (extermination camp). Prisoners of the main (forced labor) camp didn't know about it. Even though some prisoners were transferred from Birkenau to the main camp right after selection, they didn't have enough time to inquire about the conditions at Birkenau. You forgot that members of the special command themselves were Jews, who had to take out corpses off the gas chambers. Their state of health was of no concern to the Nazis. They were simply killed if they weren't able to work anymore. Please keep in mind that the Nazis didn't see Jews as human beings. The Nazis usually didn't record their mass murders. They tried to keep them secret. Today's HC deniers benefit from that.
I am not sure if i do agree. Because we will face the question, who will set those limits? And how people can trust him?
Nice conspiracy theory, got any evidence to support such a claim? How would they keep such a thing secret? Especially since no one has yet been able to find any remarkable mass murder by the germans, by americans and brits, well thats another story altogether as we have proven several times in this thread!
Re: I already listed the reasons of how Churchill, Eisenhower and de Gaulle would have known about a Nazi genocidal agenda and large scale mass gassing project if either had existed through their network of spies, reports from resistance leaders, arial reconnaissance, reports from discharged inmates and Eisenhower's own visual inspections of the camps. Don't you think that Eisenhower who is on record as hating the Germans would have mentioned a genocidal agenda and/or a mass gassing project if either had existed? Raul Hilberg, who is just another Holocaust Industry propagandist, can hardly be considered an independent and credible source. A more credible and independent source would be the World Almanac(1) which draws from Jewish sources and illustrates that the world's Jewish population actually grew during the 1930s - 1940s Re: There were no large scale gassings in any of the German run camps and if nearly one million people had been gassed at Birkenau, there is no way that any mass murder on that huge scale could have been kept secret. The graves at Auschwitz-Birkenau-Monowitz only contain a tiny fraction of the claimed number of people killed and intercepted radio transmissions reported executions by hanging and shooting but make no mention of executions by gassing. Why mention execution by hanging and shooting but not mention execution by gassing? EXCERPT " • 1). Germans are meticulous record keepers but there is not one order for the construction of any gas chamber, no blueprint, no photo of any gas chamber or gassed victims. • 2). There have been thousands of investigations of alleged Nazi war criminals, hundreds of trials, yet not one person was ever accused of being involved with actual gassings! No reliable witness on either side has ever come forward who saw a single person gassed—AND THERE ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE BEEN OVER 10,000 MASS GASSINGS! • 3). Photos of bodies at Dachau and Belsen camps are of prisoners who died of typhus and malnutrition. Many Germans also died from typhus. • 4). The Vatican and Red Cross interviewed thousands of freed camp inmates at the end of the War about alleged gas chambers. The response was always the same, "The detainees themselves have not spoken of them" (Red Cross document No. 9925, June 1946)." CONTINUED(2) Re: First, if the health of Jewish inmates was of no concern, why were there hospitals and dental clinics to treat them? Dr. Munch's testimony that the alleged gas chamber could be emptied after 3 - 5 minutes is clear proof that he is lying. Homicidal Nazi gas chambers are simply a product of Allied propaganda(3) similar to the human skin lampshades, human fat soap and other blatant propaganda myths used by the Allies to demonize the Germans. Re: What proof do you have of this assertion? Why do you suppose that the Soviets refused to release the Auschwitz death ledger for 45 years? Could it be because that the ledger shows that only about 69,000 people died at Auschwitz of all causes. Why do holocaustians claim that the holocaust is one of the most thoroughly documented events in history but when a document refutes their cult beliefs, they claim that it is inaccurate? (1) "Was there Really a Holocaust?" https://www.biblebelievers.org.au/wasthere.htm EXCERPT "The World Almanac for 1947 states that back in 1939 the world Jewish population was 15,688,259. The Almanac's figures were supplied by the American Jewish Committee. Next the Jewish-owned New York Times of February 22, 1948 stated the world Jewish population for that year amounted "to 15,600,000 to 18,700,000 in addition to the 600,000 to 700,000 living in Palestine." How could the Jewish population increase so rapidly over the war years if they had lost 6,000,000 people?"CONTINUED (2)“The Problems of Mass Gassing” http://truedemocracyparty.net/2012/05/was-there-really-a-judaic-holocaust/ (3)“Auschwitz: Myths and Facts” http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/auschwitz.shtml EXCERPT “Allied Propaganda The Auschwitz gassing story is based in large part on the hearsay statements of former Jewish inmates who did not personally see any actual signs of extermination. Their beliefs are understandable, because rumors about gassings at Auschwitz were widespread. Allied planes dropped large numbers of leaflets, written in Polish and German, on Auschwitz and the surrounding areas which claimed that people were being gassed in the camp. The Auschwitz gassing story, which was an important part of the Allied wartime propaganda effort, was also broadcast to Europe by Allied radio stations. [15] CONTINUED 15. Nuremberg document NI-11696. NMT "green series," Vol. 8, p. 606.
Even in the aftermath of World War Two the U.S. and Britain recognized that it needed Germany as a bulwark against possible Soviet expansion into Central Europe. So there was a strong incentive not to dwell on Germany's horrific crimes during the war that would've made any kind of alliance difficult.
btw, how do you explain the alleged death march while riding trains? how do you explain 8000 prisoners being left behind, since your conspiracy claims they murdered all the sick? how do you explain the huge hospitals at the camps?
