Turkey's Actions Towards French Ship Causing Rift In Nato

France tried to uphold the UN embargo on arm shipments to Libya by asking to board a ship being escorted by the Turkish navy. The Turkish war ships became aggressive, and so the Admiral of the Italian ship told the French to leave.

Of course the French are furious.

France’s defense ministry on June 17th accused a Turkish naval vessel of harassing one of its ships in the Mediterranean, saying its ship was trying to uphold the UN’s arms embargo to Libya, and implying therefore that Turkey was trying to enable the delivery of weapons to the Tripoli-based government. France described the ship’s actions as “extremely aggressive” and “unacceptable by an ally against a NATO ship.”

Both countries are members of NATO, while Turkey has found itself at odds with NATO on numerous questions in recent years, and France meanwhile pushes for the formation of a unitary EU military.

https://www.fort-russ.com/2020/06/p...rkish-naval-aggression-against-french-vessel/​

 

The EU wants to destroy the nationality of it's member nations. Thankfully the U.K. opted out.

But hey EU, if you form your own military do not let the French take the lead....they do not have the best record in military matters in the last 200 + years.

 

Well clearly the vessel was loaded up to its armpits with weapons... maybe the French should think about what happens when they find one loaded with weapons...sounds to me like they've been searching and coming up empty until now

 

The reason the ships were there were to enforce the embargo on arms. The French tried to do their job, but they were faced with guns by a Nato member. Anyway the situation is serious, and Turkey is getting out of hand. No one knows how to stop them.

 

We all know how to stop them, we just lack the will to do it. Kind of like the rioters currently destroying property in several American cities.

 

Turkey's Actions Towards French Ship Causing Rift In Nato

NATO has become a solution looking for a problem.

 

Out of 168 battles fought since 387 BC, they have won 109, lost 49 and drawn 10", making France the most successful military power in European history and therefore in the world—in terms of number of fought and won.

 

The French should have put the Turks to the fishes and issue is solved ... This Bastard Erdogan is one of the biggest supporters of terrorist and I still wonder why NATO does not kick out this bastard out of NATO.

But when even the coward Trump was afraid when Erdogan threat the US with an Ottoman slap in the face if the US back the YPG against criminal Turkish invasion into Northern Syria ... well ... what shall France do, eh?

And honestly:

My personal opinion is since Trump sits in White House with his bombardment of lies and blackmailing against my country, that my country should leave NATO and kick out all US troops from our soil ... we still laugh about his announced reduction of 9,500 troops because we are so evil ... ROFL!
A cooperation as it still exists with France, BE-NE-LUX and Danmark as then alliance without NATO cap above is far better ... and then we can also start better relations to Russia.

 

"France tried to uphold the UN embargo on arm shipments to Libya by asking to board a ship being escorted by the Turkish navy. The Turkish war ships became aggressive, and so the Admiral of the Italian ship told the French to leave."

I assume you are trying to say it was a joint Italian/French naval force that approached the vessel in question? And that an Italian Officer was in overall command at that particular time.

If this was the case then (absent any other information) I assume the Italian officer decided that an incident with the escorting Turkish ship wasn't worth the effort in terms of potential political ramifications. Given the larger political picture unfolding in that region at the moment, so what? Anyone see the French lodging diplomatic protests with Italy - answer no.

Result? - next time that or another NATO task force sails and a French commander is in charge he/she gets to make the decision.

Of course if the Russian Navy was conducting a similar exercise with its allies in the region (the Syrians) then presumably a Syrian Admiral in his fishing boat would give directions to the Russian vessel involved. I say vessel rather than vessels because Russia would struggle to keep more than one ship on station in the Med at a time 24/7 for more than a month at a time.

 

Let me see if I understand this. Because you hate Trump you favor Germany leaving NATO. I guess that means that, if there were some other President were in office German membership makes sense to you. Frankly, the logic in that escapes me. I do agree that you need a great relationship with Russia. Your fuel source depends on it. I also agree that we should remove U.S. troops from Germany.

 

1. I said last 200 years, and you go back to 387 BC....
2, They lost the important ones....from Blenheim and The Plains Of Abraham to Dien Bien Phu….
3. The French military has not been a military power since Napoleon decided he wanted to see Moscow
4. 6 weeks in 1940 and they folded and capitulated….6 weeks....

"I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me.” ― General George S. Patton

 

Not correct ...

The right thing is that I hate Donald Trump ... and I've hated the bastard for around 20 years because for me it has been just human scum for so long. I don't want to go into details now, for example keyword SoHo Hotel, because of course some will call ... even if proven fact ... everything bad fake news against Trump again ...

The reason why I am now advocating leaving NATO is that Donald Trump has robbed me of the last remnant of positive illusions about the United States.
If Trump is elected again, the horror will continue, but even if not ... there can always be an equally bad president in the future who only spreads lies, threatens and blackmailed us and others, agreements and contracts that do not suit him simply declared invalid and and and ... plus many Americans who also agree with this bastard and cheer him ... as well give a damn about real facts about.

And no ... no fuel ... Northstream is all about liquid natural gas. And even that doesn't really make us totally dependent on Russia, as the idiot in White House claims. But even if ... sorry ... that's our business and it's none of your business! You just have to accept that and Basta!

And about US troops ... they do nearly nothing or us or for NATO in Europe ... the bases are nearly only used for own US worldwide intrests which have nothing to do with us or Europe ... aside point that we pay not only a few Euro for them too.

And this is the realty and fact behind the story of Trumps threat / announcement to reduce for 9,500 soldiers in Germany ... so now any clue why we simply laugh about him for this and say "OK, and when doe sthe rest go"?

 

Sorry you lost your positive illusions. If I were religious I would say a prayer for you.

 

No worries ... I am not sad or so ... only angry ... and about prayer it would have no sense, because I am convinced atheist and depending to statement of some Christians to me, if I die I can push the button Basement in elevator, because no way that I can push upstairs for heaven .

 

From what I gather, there were 3 Nato ships to enforce the embargo; French, Italian and Greek. The others left and the Greek ship was left alone - and if they did anything, it would have given the Turks the excuse they needed to start a war.

France's anger is with Nato. They want Turkey out, and or to form a European military.

A person would be a fool to challenge the Russians in anything, and Erdogan is no fool. His PM Devotoglu challenged the Russians once, and he was ousted fast together with an apology from Erdogan.

 

Sounds good to me. Just don't call us if you end up like Ukraine.

 

I think it's because Turkey has the largest army in Nato, and because Poland and the Baltic nations hate Russia. Poland still has dreams of grabbing part of Russia, so it can rebuild its former Polish/Lithuanian Empire. And the other Baltic nations fear they're going to lose the Russians lands they occupy because they have the Russians there living in an apartheid condition.

The Turks together with the US, Saudi Arabia, Britain, France, Israel, and Jordon wanted to topple Assad and break the country into parts and weaken it like they did Yugoslavia. This is why Russia got involved.

They all supported ISIS whenever it was convenient to do so, even though it was imposing sharia law and committing genocide towards Christians and others.

Should have been done a long time ago.

 

The above would suggest Frances 'anger' is with Turkey not NATO directly. A lot of NATO members are displeased with Turkey or more precisely Erdogan and his policies. For the moment there's no broad agreement on expelling the Turks but that said the main thing keeping them 'in' the NATO club is probably the fear that expulsion might push Ergodan (if not Turkish voters into Putin's loving arms). So nothing happens.

A greater threat is if the EU gets finally tired of his antics. True Erdogan can threaten retaliation by opening the floodgates for Syrian refuges into Europe if the start putting heavy sanctions in place but the EU can literally cut the balls off Turkey's export economy. About half their export income and 2/3 of their foreign investment comes from EU member states. If those trade flows were ever seriously threatened the Turks would kick him out of office in a shot.

Hardly foolish. The days are long gone where Russia has the convention forces needed to occupy any of the major border states e.g Turkey, Ukraine, Turkey etc in depth for long periods of time. The same of course applies in reverse. Even with US support NATO doesn't have the capacity to occupy large swaths of Russian territory for any length of time either.

The chief difference of course being that NATO wouldn't want to even if it could while Russia under Putin would like to but cant.

So these days all he can do is run disinformation campaigns, threaten to cut off gas supplies and if really pressed send in FSU officers to conduct 'hits' on people who displease him. So some degree of influence? yes, command or demand - no.

 

Erdogan is in Putin's arms, and has been from the time of the coup. He can't trust the US or Nato, and he owes Putin his life. I wasn't too sure of it, until I recalled that the philosopher Alexander Dugan who is a close friend of Vladimir Putin; was stuck in the airport at Ankara and couldn't get home during the coup.

What would Dugan be doing in Ankara, if it wasn't to help Erdogan? Sounds just too coincidental to me. According to some, Erdogan and his family were taken to the Russian air base in Syria. Maybe, maybe not! Who knows?

Turkey is in a very strategic location and they know it, so they do whatever they want.

You're projecting, since we're the ones with the bases all over the world. Russia's big problem, is to hold back the US and Europe from grabbing its land and resources which contains 30% of the world's wealth. Europe and the US know the world cannot survive without them. - so the attacks from the West are never ending.

 

You can push the button very easily, all you have to do is repent for your sins before you die. It's the state of mind you're in before death that determines your eternal destiny. Repentance is the key, and don't forget it or you're doomed. I'm not joking!

 

A holiday perhaps? I presume even Putin's friends are allowed to take them once in while. Anyway it doesn't matter. So Erdogen does a favor for Putin, big deal. That's how power politics works at that level. If Trump or a European leader called and asked for a similar favor they'd get a similar result and vice versa. It doesn't cost them anything to do little 'favors' like this.

Its in a key strategic location for Russia in terms of egress to the Med, much less so for NATO these days.

Again, we've been through this before. Russia has nothing the West want's or needs they cant buy either from Russia directly or elsewhere. Russia has nothing worth spilling blood over. Europe can feed itself quite nicely thank you without Russia, more than feed itself in fact. And it doesn't have a burgeoning population (neither does Russia). About the only thing it can't do at the moment is warm itself in winter without Russia's gas whcih Russia is dead keen to sell.And even that will change over time.

In summary, Russia needs Western inputs, far far more than the West needs Russia's.

 

France is now suspending it's naval operations in the Mediterranean because of Nato's support of Turkey.

I came across something interesting a few days after Macron and Putin had a meeting. It seems the area in Libya with the largest oil wells are under France's control, and they are now being guarded by Russians.

If we consider that Russia established posts with Chechyan guards all along the Israeli/Syrian border to keep them separated, then I have to assume the Russians are guarding France's oil wells and pipes for the same reason.

 

In the Middle Ages I would have ended up at the stake as human BBQ Jeannette ... I respect every religion, but I am a staunch atheist.
God? Which god and which religion? Jews, Christians and Muslims pray to the same god and besides this god there are countless other gods and religions ... be it simply that someone worship the next tree as god or talk about aliens as gods. All humbug ...

 

Sorry ... wrong!
Turkey has a large Army, no doubts ... but it is about strategic issue with Turkey and NATO and also somehow political reason why they are not yet kicked out.

This with Poland is simply Bullshit and refuted by facts what you write! Poland was often enough victim of Russian aggression in history ... sure also by others too, but we talk now only about Russia and not the others.
It was Russia together with Prussia and Austro-Hungary which eleminated Poland as state and country in 1772 and the Polish territory was divided under these 3 of which was Russia one of them.
As is well known, after the resurrection in 1918, the Polish - Soviet War broke out in 1919-1921. And even if the faction "Russia / USSR never does evil" likes to supplant it, both are equally responsible for the war. Poland undoubtedly intended to expand its territory to Ukraine ... but the "Pro Russia faction" forgets and ignores that the young USSR was doing exactly the same thing and wanted to take back former and now Polish territories.
And then it was 1939, and even if there were idiots who seriously claim that Stalin had invaded only to protect Poland, it was de facto an attack by the USSR on Poland with the aim of conquering where you were in 1919 had failed!
Then there is the massacre of Polish officers, nobles and clergymen in Katyn committed by Soviet NKVD ... which still deny hardcore idiots and say it was the Germans, but even Putin had confirmed in 2010 that it was the NKVD.
Likewise ... the uprising in Warsaw in 1944. The Red Army was almost within reach of the artillery, but they watched mercilessly how the Germans massacred the insurgents ... because they weren't Communists and Stalin only accepted one that would be Communist in the future Poland and is known to prevail.

And after the Second World War, Stalin kept exactly the area that he conquered in 1939 and shifted to Poland, geographically westwards to former German territory.
And until the end of communism, a communist regime of Moscow's grace ruled in Poland.

I think the Poles have enough reason not to like the Russians ... and what you're saying is pure Russian BS propaganda and lies.

Not really true ... With Turkey you are right, because this bastard Erdogan has a BS dream of re-installing a new Ottoman Empire ... aside fact that Turkey and Syria have since decades their own "cold war" still.
US, Saudi Arabia and the others are for sure not innocent ... but their interests are different and a break up of Syria is not their target, but a remove of Assad at least and to kick out Iran and Hezbollah from Syria.

And about Russia ... Syria is since 50 year allied with Syria still as USSR. It is Russian strategic area of interest ... don't forget that still USSR had a Navy base in Syria due to these interests. And like the United States, Russia gives a damn whether they support a bastard for such reasons or not. But in general I have no problem with Russia getting involved in Syria because it is the Russian front yard. But I blame Russia for intervening too late and should have done it earlier.

Sorry, this is nonsense at least and you shoot here also an own goal at least!
That Saudi Arabia sponsors terror I will not deny ... that the US did, does and / or gives a crap about whom the support is also not new.
That Turkey supports openly partd of the FSA which are at least Islamist terrorists like Al Nusra is fact ... as it is fact that they are on one hand victm of IS terror attacks, but worked with them somehow together is also fact.
But that Assad wroked together with IS same way is also fact as it is fact that both gave a crap about IS and focused on Al Nusra and FSA.

And as I still told so many times ... the term terrorist is meaningless these days, becase it bacame fashion to demonize enemy insurgents with this term.
Do you tell that Hezbollah are terrorists? I don't think so ... but many others do and even Putin and Russia told this in the past ... but since Syria not anymore. Strange, isn't it?

This alliance of the named inside NATO still exists a long time ... and Germany is stubborn with North Stream towards the USA and this is good, because the impudence of Trump is really nasty!

 

Don't worry ... we won't do it, because even if we were to submit to your idiotic and insolent will ... you Americans wouldn't help us anyway and we would therefore be dependent on ourselves and our real friends anyway.
The world has learned often enough ... recently the YPG Kurds in Syria ... that whoever relies on the USA as an ally and friend ... is quickly lost and gets a kick in the butt from Washington if it is uncomfortble for the US to rely on this alliance and friendship.

However, apparently you still haven't understood the situation with Ukraine as far as the background ... otherwise you would not make such a reference.