Failed State - Breadlines of Capitalism

I find it disgraceful the governments kept open liquor stores but closed churches and other things because liquor was a necessity. I also find it wrong that they closed businesses left and right but walmart got to stay open.

 

Hillary's education approach had a serious focus on construction workers of all trades as well as technicians and engineers working jobs that don't require a college degree.

We don't have nearly enough legitimate and funded programs for those taking vocational tracks like that. The methods of the past, such as unions and apprenticeship programs have shrunk seriously. And, the complexity and speed of movement in technical training needed for electricians, in materials, etc. is increasing.

Beyond that, the vast majority of successful companies in America, those that are hiring these people, were created by college graduates.

Yes, you can get through college and learn NOTHING. You can also get through college and be in a position to help others who seriously need help while not earning a huge salary. And, you can get through college and be part of the army of capitalism that is moving this nation forward.

 

I'm not so sure that their behavior is bad. It certainly is in certain cases (like Tyson), but companies exist to make a profit and the very concept of "corporations" was created in order to protect owners from liability for the actions of their companies - something that can look ugly but is necessary to some degree in order to make capitalism really work.

I think the problem comes in when we start seeing corporations as more important than people. We do need employers. But, we also need people who are fed, have a place to live, have access to health care that they can afford, etc.

Most of those who get government aid do get off that aid, surprisingly enough. And, when we have people who can spend money, businesses thrive - while when we pay businesses from our tax dollars it doesn't cause customers to magically appear. In 2008, aid to companies helped them figure out how to make money while NOT hiring people.

 

We failed to have any well thought out nation wide direction on COVID that was backed by medical science.

THAT was a crime of huge proportions.

Our executive branch HAS a plan for opening businesses that has been sitting on whitehouse.gov for MONTHS. It was created by the CDC and reviews with other executive branch officials as well as major business executives.

The problem is that there has been NO commitment to execute it. And, part of that is that we STILL don't have the testing, tracing and other materials that would be required. We COULD have these, but it would take our federal government do help. And, they absolutely refuse.

States can't do it all on their own. States are limited in what they can finance through federal law the covers what states are allowed to do. And, it would be ridiculously expensive to each state to try to do this stuff purely on their own. Many states are trying. But, states can't build their own PPE factories, order corporations to produce certain goods, borrow enough to fund contact tracing, build their own medical labs for test production and analysis, etc.

So, when there isn't enough of this stuff and when the population refuses to follow KNOWN medical guidelines on masks, washing, group events, etc., we get screwed.

My brother's company (making a serious defense product) requires masks, spread office space broadly, instituted work from home to create a lot of extra space for when people show up, takes everybodies temp as they enter the buildding (regardless of whether they're just coming back from lunch), they have NO walk-ins from the public.

Not every job can be run that way.

 

Capitalism isn't catering to people with money - it is a natural outcome of personal freedoms
such as freedom to own property and start your own business.
Sure, we non-Americans find American the 'health system' and welfare somewhat strange -
but that's not necessarily 'capitalism.' My nation of Australia is capitalist - and we take good
care of our poor.
It's a marvelous thing but the issue these days isn't hunger but weight - even in Northern
Africa. Where REAL hunger was manifest was in conflict and socialism. Under Lenin, Mao
and Stalin over a 100,000,000 people simply starved to death.

 

Sorry, capitalist corporations have ONE objective - maximizing net profit. PERIOD. They may do nice things to attract employees or curry favor with their market places. But, those actions are cost of doing business.

I have NO idea why you're bringing up crap about Lenin, Mao and Stalin. Nobody is even SLIGHTLY interested in that. America is capitalist. That's not going to change.

Yes. Australia has a single payer healthcare system AND it is a capitalist country! Republicans in America refuse to believe that is a possibility, even though EVERY first world country except America has a single payer system. And, no other counry pays as much for healthcare as do Americans. We pay more per person by FAR, even though our results aren't any better in the key areas that count.

In America, the right wing sees single payer as a decision to leave capitalism and join Lenin!!! They will actually TELL you that!!

President Trump and the Republicans in both sides of our legislature are working in our courts and our legislature to kill the healthcare system we have. That has gone on for years now, and they have NEVER proposed ANY kind of replacement. Thus if Trump wins in our highest court (where there will be a ruling in spring) tens of millions of Americans will lose any kind of health care coverage and will certaily NOT be able to afford private insurance prices. That is, these tens of millions does NOT include those who simply have to pay a LOT more even though they have low incomes. It's the number who will actually be left witn NO coverage.

I wish we valued our citizens as much as Australia values their citizens when it comes to healthcare. And, Australia is one of MANY nations that prove we don't have to go communist or socialist to do that.

 

What you want is government to close everything. That is flat out authoritarian.

 

American Democrats are politically where our right-of-center Liberal party are.
I am glad that the sole purpose of business is making money. Take an ideal
company, ie silicon chip manufacturer, and force a social mandate (emissions,
waste, transgender toilets, re-education for opposing political POV's, paid maternity
and paternity, high wages, pet friendly, bi-trans handicapped Muslim CEO etc etc etc..)
and pit it against silicon chip companies in Taiwan, Sth Korea or China. Pretty soon
you won't have that company. Same for pharma, cars, steel manufacture etc..
Government can take care of social issues.

 

The problem has always been that when a report comes out and predicts what trades or degrees are needed, for the future, everyone jumps into those programs. I never went to college but was lucky enough to join the Navy and get into the electronic field. Afterwards the rest of my time was being a wharf rat working shipyards up and down the coasts. I pretty much agree with your whole post. I believe people should pursue the work that makes them happy. Money really isn't everything.

 

I agree. We have gone to cooking smaller whole chicken instead of mammoth turkey for Thanksgiving. Tastes better too.

 

We are going to skip Thanksgiving like we have skipped everything else for the past 10 months. I asked my wife what she wanted for Thanksgiving dinner. Her response was coq au vin (French chicken stew) and that is what she will have.

 

No.

There are LOTS of necessary businesses that nobody has ever proposed to be closed.

The real problem is that individuals are not following advice from medical science, we have no national plan, and there are too many things that states can not do on their own.

The result is that more draconian action has to be taken to cover for this federal level failure and individual refusal to take part.

 

Most of those features you seem to hate come from corporations working to make their jobs attractive to the college graduates who have opportunities throughout their job sector.

That's certainly what has driven the policies of the high tech sector where I've spent my career.

As for some of the rest, you're hoping to impose MORE systemic disccrimination that is exactly what we need LESS of. You probably want to claim that everyone has an equal opportunity in the job market, based on their skills, etc. BUT, when religion, single parenthood, LGBTQ, race, etc., enter the picture, that equality does NOT exist. And, we ALL pay for that - with our tax dollars and with our nation having a less vibrant economy.

 

Draconian measures are autocratic. It should never happen in the land of the free. People should make their own decisions. 100,000 small business are already down for the count. Apparently you don't care about the owners and employees of those businesses. All you care about it government power. To hell with you.

 

I agree with you 100%.

When people work jobs they don't really like, they don't do well, they are less happy, they don't keep up with their field by doing the outside work required to keep up today, etc. Plus, I don't believe college kids really know what job they "should" want. Not very many jobs are like college! Expecting a strong career decision from most 18yo kids hits me as a little ridiculous.

I think we need to retune our education system to make it more possible for every individual to keep up and advance in what they are doing and to be able to see the warning signs and find new choices as our economy changes so rapidly.

For one large example that doesn't really represent the situation for every individual, we had auto workers who just didn't have a reasonable way to move on before the industry started leaving people behind. Corporations have motivations toward buying material they need and then just not buying any more when they don't need it. When that "material" is labor, humans can get hurt. And, that's a serious problem, not just for the ex employee.

US citizens aren't disposable - even though capitalism says they are. Capitalism is great, but we do have to take some care. That's even more true as we dump unions, apprenticeship programs, and other ways that work for employees.

 

This is total BS.

America does NOT allow people to do whatever the hell they want to do. I don't know where you got THAT idea!!

And, the PRIMARY reason for restrictions is that it is harmful to others.

 

Sure, there's merit in both side of the argument. But this is where China can dominate industries
like high speed rail, rare earth minerals etc.. We saddle our own industries with social issues that
give others a leg up. So we save the cactus but now our strategic rare earth industry and nuclear
are gone.

 

I'm not very sold on that idea.

The reason China leads the world in every aspect of clean energy from patents to manufacturiing, to exports to installation is because that is what their government wanted.

Our government wanted coal and oil. So, we shunned changes that would benefit clean energy and we gave tax breaks and other benefits to fossil fuel.

I have no idea what your point about high speed rail could be. Our nation is not interested in high speed rail, obviously. The airports in our major cities are filling with flights of distances and routes that would be highly desirable for high speed rail rather than air or our congested freeways. I see no will to solve these highly congested routes with rail.

In general, we've had little real interest in building infrastructure for transportation or electricity transmission. The last proposal by Trump just shucked it off on the states - who have serious borrowing limits and face issues that cross multiple state lines.

 

Government forcing legal businesses to close isn't authoritarian? I guess I don't recognize your definition of the term.

 

I see. You consider public behavior to be unacceptable so you punish business owners and their employees to pay for it? That is really cold.

 

When I was a young man in high school, every Wednesday , if my grades were up a few of us were allowed to go to our local golf club and work. If we worked they would let us come and work on the weekend if we wanted. I don't see why those kinds of programs couldn't be installed for kids to try auto -repair, electrician, plumbing etc. When they graduate they could continue in a apprenticeship program.

 

Two cent's of advice is worth about two cents but common sense is priceless.

 

EVERY law is "authoritarian".

Are you an anarchist?

I THINK you are trying to say that closing certain businesses wasn't JUSTIFIED.

But, today we see the ramifications for IGNORING advice, leaving our hospitals overflowing with health care workers across our nation risking their own lives to help those who simply can't be bothered to care about others.

Maybe it would be better to focus on more aggressively taking legal action against those who ignore healthcare directives. If you drive over the speed limit, you are endangering others and you can get ticketed. If you congregate or fail to wear a mask, you are endangering others and you should get a ticket.

But, that doesn't work well for situations where simply using the facility - bars, restaurants, cinemas, sporting events, political ralleys, voting in person, etc., etc. is putting others at risk.

The level to which the COVID deniers CRAP on our healthcare workers is absolutely ASTOUNDING to me.

 

I like that. I think this is important in all levels of employment, too. When I was in highschool I worked as a logger for my uncle's logging operation. I learned a lot - how to work hard, that Ididn't want to be a logger(lol), that life is real. In my professioanl life I found that some universities have really good programs of requiring their students to work in the field of their major concentration for at least 6 months as a graduation requirement. That really helped students know what the job is actually like as well as allowing eveluation by me concerning who we wanted to hire when they did graduate. That happens with apprenticeship programs at all levels, I think.

Also, with jobs moving toward being automated, and other change, there are new dimensions to learn all the time. That's true from electricians to docors. It's true for autoworkers and coal plant operators who may need to find similar work, learn the automation, etc. And, nobody can wait for their job to disappear before figuring out how to advance their careers. It helps America if we make that more possible.

 

Of course not. No laws were used to close businesses - only decrees. It doesn't get any more aurhthoritarian than that.

Justified? It was stupid. Government tried to fight a crisis by creating a second, worse one.

So your approach is to punish business owners and their employees for what you view as bad public behavior.

Sorry, I believe we still have a free country inhabited by people with the freedom to choose.

Then people can make a choice about patronizing a business or not. Understand that this is not a dangerous disease. Less that 1% of victims die from whatever it causes. Tragic for those who succumb to it but not serious enough to cause the economic disaster the authoritarian politicians caused. The lock downs didn't even fix anything. The virus ignored them.

The level to which COVID fear mongers CRAP on peoples' lives is ASTOUNDING to me. By the way how does not closing businesses CRAP on medical workers? Did I get the capitalizations right?