Will Trump pardon himself?

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by Asherah, Nov 26, 2020.

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Will Trump pardon himself?

Poll closed Dec 17, 2020.
  1. Trump will pardon himself

    8 vote(s)
    47.1%
  2. Trump will resign, and Pence will pardon him

    5 vote(s)
    29.4%
  3. There will be no pardon of Trump

    4 vote(s)
    23.5%
  1. Asherah

    Asherah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Many of us believe Trump is in legal jeopardy for federal crimes, when he leaves office. Trump has stated multiple times that he has the power to preemptively pardon himself. Alternatively, he might resign so that President Pence can pardon him.

    What do you think?
     
  2. Asherah

    Asherah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I predict Trump will pardon himself. Multiple times he's stated that he has the power. The theory that he cannot do so has never been tested in court, and it's consistent with his past behavior to push the envelope on Presidential power.
     
  3. Capt Nice

    Capt Nice Well-Known Member

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    No, he'll resign with one hour of his term left and Pence, as president, will pardon him. He can't risk the chance of the Supreme Court deciding later that the president can't pardon himself.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
  4. Asherah

    Asherah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There's an option for that in the poll.

    You could be right, but that would rely on trusting that Pence will do this. I think Pence WOULD, but I'm not sure Trump would trust him. Also, Trump thinks he had the Supreme Court in his pocket because he's appointed so many, and there's a 6-3 conservative majority.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
  5. RoccoGiarre

    RoccoGiarre Active Member

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    NY got him regardless
     
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  6. Asherah

    Asherah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's a distinct possibility, but we don't know the extent of those misdeeds. It could be as minor as Michael Cohen's, and end up with a suspended sentence. On the other hand, we know he committed multiple counts of obstruction of justice. That's a very serious offense.
     
  7. Capt Nice

    Capt Nice Well-Known Member

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    It seems to be a pretty good guess that New York can have their way with him over his taxes. Time will tell.
     
  8. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    Trump committed no crimes at all, honestly. ALL the allegations of Trump's 'criminal activity' as President of the United States -- including the laughably inadequate 'impeachment articles' were fabricated, manipulated, over-blown, partisan BULLSHIT.

    That said, I suggest that maybe as an ironic twist on all this hatred and loathing by everyone, for everything imaginable, Trump should issue a presidential pardon to JOE BIDEN instead -- for crimes of collusion, blackmail, and extortion in Ukraine and China while he was vice-president!

    I know, it sounds preposterous, but what a gesture THAT would be...! :eekeyes: .

    Trump has said many times that no president should ever have to be subjected to the kind of obstruction, hatred, subterfuge, and sabotage that he endured... and what better example of Trump's own magnanimity could there be than to protect Joe Biden from having to face justice for his own shortcomings while he's in the highest office in the land...?

    [​IMG]. "Yeah, Joe? Sit down... I've got a surprise for you...." :nana:
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
  9. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree, he should pardon Biden and then Biden should give complete access to the DOJ to prosecute trump.
    Great plan!
     
  10. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    that would be a huge gamble though as if he loses in court, he can't resign and have his vp pardon him later
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2020
  11. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    No, I don't see how. It means the President is above the law, and that is not mentioned anywhere in the Constitution, as it surely would be.
     
  12. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    A pardon might also seriously jeopardize his chances in 2024. A prosecution and trial would keep his name before the public. A convicted felon can run for President and he loves to be the victim.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2020
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  13. Asherah

    Asherah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If he pardons himself, I expect him to say it's to stop the witch hunt. His supporters will applaud this.
     
  14. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    Consider this, Aleks -- Trump was IMPEACHED, but he still came close to winning re-election, even after having to deal with a country being wracked by the most spectacular disease epidemic in the last hundred years! In theory, he could run again -- BUT --

    By the time the 2024 elections are held, Trump would be 78 years old! Nobody who's 78 years old has any business trying to pretend to citizens of this country that he's got the mental clarity, perspicacity, and alactrity to be the Chief Executive of the United States -- as you on the Left are likely to observe in Joe Biden between now and the end of summer, 2021....

    While it's possible that Trump could undergo "Fresh Cell Therapy" (Frischzellentherapie) like the Yugoslav president, Josip Tito did. Tito lived to be 88 years old, and was ruler of Yugoslavia for 27 years -- from 1953 right up to the day he died! Europeans know a LOT about this stuff, which has been used there by the über-wealthy older guys since the 1930's....

    Ol' Joe's handlers might want have some of it sent over from Ukraine (where he has lots of 'friends' :roll: ), and give him a few shots of this stuff if Biden starts to forget what century he's in... again.... :cynic: . Link: https://www.alor.org/blog/index.php/joe-biden-forgets-what-century-he-is-in-by-charles-taylor . Yeah, it's only blog... but this REALLY happened....

    Truth? NOBODY over the age of 70 has any damned business holding a high-level federal government job at all! Not a president, not a Supreme Court Justice, not a Senator, and not a Representative, either!
    Disclosure: I'm a 'senior-citizen' myself! :oldman:
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2020
  15. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Like everything he does, it's in the interest of national harmony:cynic:
     
  16. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    What exactly is it that Donald Trump, President of the United States, did while in office that he needs to be pardoned for in the first place? Any of you radical Democrats been 'keeping a list'...? If so, please copy-and-paste it here in the Forum for the rest of us to see.

    Trump wasn't my favorite president by a LONG shot, but I cannot recall any 'crimes' that he committed. Not even the two Articles of Impeachment thrown at him by the Democrat House of Pelosi's stooges had any mention of anything that was a CRIME, whether "high" or otherwise! Besides, as we all know, once that abstruse pile of hastily thrown-together, partisan 'impeachment' crap reached the Senate, it was thrown out with the rest of the day's garbage....

    So, what were President Trump's "crimes"? :confusion:
     
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  17. Asherah

    Asherah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    IMO, Trump's biggest vulnerability for federal crimes are obstruction of justice, as described in volume 2 of the Mueller report. The evidence is pretty clear.

    If you already voted "there will be no pardon" because you were unaware of these crimes, you can change your vote.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2020
  18. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    Uh, are you saying he is guilty of something? Is he being charged with something? When he is out of the White House president unindicted coconspirator may face some charges he can't wave away.
     
  19. Asherah

    Asherah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Use your judgment to answer the poll question.

    I suggest that if Trump believes there is a half-decent chance he could be indicted, he might head this off with a self-pardon.
     
  20. Pants

    Pants Well-Known Member

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    Trump denies any and all wrong doing - so why would he need a pardon? If he does, it is an admittance of guilt.
     
  21. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't he have to articulate what he was pardoning himself for (there's so many to choose from) or could he just write a blank check?
     
  22. Asherah

    Asherah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Based on the Gerald Ford precedent, he can write a blank check. Here's the language Ford used in pardoning Nixon:

    I, GERALD R. FORD, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9,1974.
     
  23. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    Special Council, Robert Mueller did not (NOT) write in his long-awaited report that Trump had "obstructed justice", or, committed any other crime, for that matter! You may want to refresh your knowledge of what you think you know about the "Mueller Report"... here, let me help you out -- Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mueller_report

    Note the following from that Wiki article, "The investigation... 'does not conclude that the President committed a crime....'".
    Moreover, had Trump really "obstructed justice" how could the Senate -- even with a Republican majority -- not remove Trump from office?!

    So, what else have you got...? :lonely: What 'crimes' would a President Trump need to be pardoned for?

    Oh, BTW, I couldn't vote in this poll because there should have been at least one choice that said Trump didn't do anything that needed a 'pardon' in the first place!
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2020
  24. Asherah

    Asherah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You don't seem to understand the context of that edited snip you provided from Mueller's report. Here's exactly what he said: "Because we determined not to make a traditional prosecutorial judgment, we did not draw ultimate conclusions about the President 's conduct." So his failure to state there was a crime does not imply a crime was not committed. In fact, he went further: "At the same time , if we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state. Accordingly, while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it does not exonerate him."

    I find it weird that you Trump-cult members somehow interpret "it does not exonerate him" to mean "Trump is exonerated!"

    To be clear, I never said Mueller judged Trump had committed a crime. I am saying that the evidence Mueller describes in his report makes a good case for obstruction. BTW, that's not just my opinion; it's the opinion of over 1000 former prosecutors (both Republican and Democrat), who said:

    "Each of us believes that the conduct of President Trump described in Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s report would, in the case of any other person not covered by the Office of Legal Counsel policy against indicting a sitting President, result in multiple felony charges for obstruction of justice.

    "The Mueller report describes several acts that satisfy all of the elements for an obstruction charge: conduct that obstructed or attempted to obstruct the truth-finding process, as to which the evidence of corrupt intent and connection to pending proceedings is overwhelming"


    This seems like a pretty good justification for my assertion that Trump is vulnerable to being prosecuted for obstruction. Even if you believe he's innocent, you're burying your head in the sand if you can't see that he's in JEOPARDY of being prosecuted for this.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2020
  25. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    Never once did I say that Trump was "exonerated"... never once did Mueller write that Trump was guilty of even one (ONE) crime... and, never once have YOU provided proof that Trump committed a crime, either!

    And, just to be clear, I am not now, nor have I ever been a "Trump-cult member". I could (and have before) write paragraphs full of things I have disliked and/or disapproved about positions that Trump has taken, things he has said, and, things he has done during the past four years, BUT -- to my knowledge he has never committed a "crime" while being President of the United States.

    So, I ask for the third time -- what have you got? Anything besides your own personal, subjective interpretations...? Then why wasn't Trump REMOVED FROM OFFICE?!
     

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