Major Study Finds Masks Don’t Reduce COVID-19 Infection Rates <<MOD WARNING>>

Discussion in 'Coronavirus (COVID-19) News' started by Bluesguy, Nov 19, 2020.

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  1. Tigger2

    Tigger2 Well-Known Member

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    Double post
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2021
  2. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    Your analogy fails unless you think that wearing a mask makes you safe, but continuing your analogy, say to the one that cannot fit in the taxi that there is plenty of time to walk to the station and on the way another taxi may come past if he wishes to take it - Fauci said that due to the low number of cases at the time in his opinion national mask wearing was not necessary.

    Everyone wearing a mask would reduce risk of infection from a disease transmitted through the air but then going down that road would mean that we forever wear a mask
     
  3. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Why do I know so many people who've become infected while wearing a mask?
     
  4. Tigger2

    Tigger2 Well-Known Member

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    No, that only works if you are claiming Fauci thinks wearing a mask IS unnecessary, which you have already admitted is not the case.
    The nearest you could get to my analogy would be to say "It is safe to ride in the boot because there's not much traffic about."
     
  5. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Negative. If you want to use that analogy:
    The point is, there aren't enough taxi's around by the BILLIONS. So not 1, but A LOT of people need to be in the boot. And Fauci's point is to not put the sick, the driver and a couple of healthy people in the boot to all getting infected just so some random other people have an actual seat.

    So back without the analogy.
    Using a mask by the general public gives a reduction of the spread of around 5%, if you're up the research it. It's a far cry from a 100%.
    And if the general public would do that, in march, than it would mean the medical staff would be without.
    That would mean the medical staff would be infected and be at home being sick, on a massive scale.
    Who is going to treat the sick in that scenario? Unskilled immigrants?

    And so it's the smartest thing that the spread reduction of 5% is just let go, for the sake that sick people do not infect health care workers.
     
  6. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    OMG, The Emperor's New Virus is just so beautiful. :rock_slayer:
     
  7. Tigger2

    Tigger2 Well-Known Member

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    I strongly dispute your 5% figure. I have researched this and the 5% figure makes so many poor assumptions on behalf of the wearer as to be comical. It also looks at the preventing you catching the virus rather than containing it when you already have it.
    If this is your start point then no wander you hold your views.
    Has Fauci ever claimed masks are only 5% effective?
    • In a study of 124 Beijing households >1 laboratory-confirmed cases of SARS-CoV-2 infection, mask use by the index patient and family contacts before the index patient developed symptoms reduced secondary transmission within the households by 79%
    • A retrospective case-control study from Thailand documented that, among more than 1,000 persons interviewed as part of contact tracing investigations, those who reported having always worn a mask during high-risk exposures experienced a greater than 70% reduced risk of acquiring infection compared with persons who did not wear masks under these circumstances.34
     
  8. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    Fauci's opinion was that wearing masks in February was unnecessary. In your analogy the dangers are not whether someone is in the boot or on a seat, the danger come from what is encountered on the roads. The busier the road (more virus cases) the more chance of a crash. If the roads are empty the chance of a crash is very small so would make no difference if you are in the boot or on a seat. At the start of the journey (February) the roads were very empty hence risk to the person in the boot was very small. Half way through the journey (April) the driver saw that the roads were becoming busier and advised the person in the boot that he should walk or wait for another taxi to arrive as there were many more taxis around now
     
  9. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you here. Fauci actually said that infected people should wear a mask to protect others. A mask protects the wearer by about 5% but gives a much higher percentage towards protecting others if the mask wearer is infected. And best case is if everyone wears a mask.
     
  10. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Fauci recommended not wearing masks when as an epidemiologist he knew it was the most important time to wear masks. He outright lied. When there is a shortage you work to correct it. Your argument is equivalent to Fauci going on TV tonight and telling everyone nobody in the US needs a Covid vaccine because we have a shortage. It’s not only a dumb argument, it’s responsible for killing thousands of Americans.
    South Korea didn’t have Fauci running around telling people masks are ineffective and nobody needs them. They had more competent “experts”. Please answer this question. Why would ANYONE want to make or distribute masks if the head “expert” goes on national TV and tells everyone nobody should be wearing a mask? Why would Donald make masks a priority after Fauci downplays their effectiveness?
    No. A lie is a lie no matter why it’s told.
    He lied and the point you think justifies the lie is blatant incompetence. It’s stupid to tell people not to wear masks early in a respiratory viral epidemic for any reason.
    No. Your source criticized right wingers for hating Fauci for hyping Covid and scaring people. My position is the exact opposite of that. I point out he downplayed the danger and downplayed masks. Nothing in your “source” addresses my point. You are again engaging in Trump-like behavior. :)

    Everything I post is based on empirical evidence. All you have at this point is strawmen and your devotion to two pathological liars—Trump and Fauci.
     
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  11. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    At the very start Fauci said that infected people should wear masks
     
  12. Tigger2

    Tigger2 Well-Known Member

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    If that is Fauci's claim I might agree, but it wasn't.
     
  13. Tigger2

    Tigger2 Well-Known Member

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    How the hell do you know you're infected? I thought Fauci was a doctor.
     
  14. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    He used the phrase "right now" several times in the interview discussing about advice on mask wearing published in February
     
  15. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    At the time there were no studies showing that asymptomatic or presymptomatic transmission occurred for this virus

    Aside: In previous years thousands of people died from seasonal flu every February. In the US, no one had died from the Covid in February. If you are going to advise national mask wearing against Covid in February then you should also advise national mask wearing against seasonal flu
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2021
  16. Tigger2

    Tigger2 Well-Known Member

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    Then treat it with caution.

    That's for the future when we have mostly got some immunity to covid and like flu those who die were already dying for the most part.
    Had we have treated Covid like flu from the outset then the death numbers would be 3 to 4 times that of Flu.
    You shouldn't try to compare them.
     
  17. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    In February it was thought that Covid-19 would be like the SARS virus in 2003 where asymptomatic transmission was very rare
    Why is it for the future when we are discussing Fauci's opinion given in February? By end of February there were; 80,000 total number of cases, 3000 deaths and daily cases dropped to zero in China; 2500 total cases, 16 deaths and 500 cases per day and dropping in South Korea; in Italy 1000 total cases and 17 deaths. These numbers effectively represented the full extent of the Virus worldwide at the time. Just for the US in February, flu cases and number of deaths dwarfed those figures. Yet there were no calls for national mask wearing to reduce flu infections
    I don't understand your post. Had we treated Covid like flu from the outset then the death numbers would be much more than 3 to 4 times that of flu since we did not do anything to reduce seasonal flu transmissions but at least there was advice on hand washing and social distancing for reducing covid
     
  18. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    No. He didn’t recommend masks to the infected general population until about April 3.

    Can you tell us who was infected and who wasn’t on February 27, March 8, April 3, or today?
     
  19. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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  20. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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  21. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    This is what they knew in MARCH when Fauci gave that interview and gave his advice.

    https://www.businessinsider.nl/coro...vidence-so-far-2020-3?international=true&r=US
    Scientific studies about the effectiveness of masks remain inconclusive. Some have found that they might help a bit in preventing illnesses from spreading, but others suggest they’re not worth putting on.

    And this is about the general people wear today outside... as in what Fauci says, what people in general wear in China and South Korea (before covid).
    Not 95N masks who filter out viruses.. who got that 95 name, because that's the % how much it filters.
     
  22. Tigger2

    Tigger2 Well-Known Member

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    We knew nothing about it, its only you supposing we thought it would be like SARS. No one else did, the WHO were warning the world this was the biggy, it came late to America so you had plenty of other countries to look at.

    I explained why in my post. You are assuming the world judged Covid as less than flu because at that time it hadn't killed many people, I disagree the warnings about Covid were well known. Indeed Trump was a laughing stock for saying it will disappear.

    Do you not have flu vaccines in America? :eek:
     
  23. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    I sourced in post 1371, that it was disputed that wearing a mask actually helps. So he did not make any lies.
    It's not Fauci's job to arrange enough masks, tests or vaccines or distribute them. That's the job of Donald, and he totally failed.

    And just like there is a shortage of vaccines right now, and even though the general public needs it,... it's not distributed evenly. Healthcare workers and the elderly first.


    I sourced in post 1371, that it was disputed that wearing a mask actually helps.

    what aint no lie is this fallacy your puking around here, is a known right wing conspiracy in order to shift the blame from Donald to Fauci.
    The lies were made by Rubio. https://www.politifact.com/factchec...rubio-says-anthony-fauci-lied-about-masks-fa/
    The guy who stuck to claiming the votes were stolen till beyond the end in order to protect his master.

    Donald is incompetent. And what you're putting up are the lies from Rubio. A guy who knows nothing about masks and viruses.

    You are parroting the nonsense of a traitor of the constitution of the US of A. :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2021
  24. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, as in your statements "Fauci running around telling people masks are ineffective and nobody needs them" and "goes on national TV and tells everyone nobody should be wearing a mask" and "He didn’t recommend masks to the infected general population" have been shown to be false statements from you.

    LOL at you running away from your statements
     
  25. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately Fauci did all the things I’ve claimed. I’ve repeatedly sourced them. I’m not running from any statements. The above is exactly what Fauci did. I’ve been claiming the same for months.

    Can you please tell us who was infected on February 17. Or March 8. Or today. Your whole argument today is based on the answer to those questions. You are running from answering that question because it completely invalidates your argument no matter how you answer it.
     

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