The Religious Exemption is LOL

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by modernpaladin, Sep 14, 2021.

  1. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Except for the right to quit, of course.
     
  2. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well, I saw a story recently that the same states complaining about this issue have existing school vaccine requirements for other viruses with no religious exemptions. Just not sure now where I saw it, so I'm not 100% sure of the details.
     
  3. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    I'm not following your rhetoric man. Maybe I should read the article. Lol.

    If the government didn't want any authority it wouldn't have issued a mandate. Seems logical to me. I don't see anything the government needs to protect itself from. Blame? Any covid failures related to the unvaccinated will still be blamed on the unvaccinated, but Biden suffers as well. If I were conspiratorial, I'd say the unvaccinated are driven by politics; hoping to see Biden fail, but I'm not conspiratorial. I don't see anything other than normal bland administration. If you can find some disparity between covid and other vaccine administration, then you might have a point, but this seems SOP to me.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2021
  4. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    CA, Mississippi, West Virginia, NY and Maine are the states that do not have religious exemptions for childhood vaccines.
    Most states allow religious exemptions for vaccinations | Pew Research Center

    It'll be interesting to see how these states handle this mandate from fedgov that allows religious exemptions by employers while not offering any regulation of those exemptions.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2021
  5. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If an employee gets covid at work, it'll be blamed on the employer granting a religious exemption. If an employee get harmed by the vaccine they took for work, it'll be blamed on the employer not granting a religious exemption. If an employee didn't seek a religious exemption, they'll be blamed for injuring themselves by not having sought a religious exemption. And the govt will remain (legally) squeaky clean.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2021
  6. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Bullshit. They didn't allow anyone but legitimate and registered JW and Quakers to become CO's when Vietnam was on, and they you had to serve anyway as a Medic. You can't just make up anything you want and claim it gets you exempted
     
  7. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Cite how the govt (fed, state, anything) is regulating religious exemptions for the employment vaccine mandate. Seriously, I'd love to know. I've been looking.

    They arent.

    As it is right now, you can claim anything you want and its up to the employer and only the employer as to whether what you 'made up' is legit or not.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2021
  8. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    First, this is what we're talking about; the law.

    Many large corporations already require COVID-19 vaccination to keep employees safe from the virus, and must, under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, offer exemptions to individuals with either a disability or "sincerely held" religious belief that prevents them from getting the vaccine.

    The decision has always been with employers. There is nothing unusual about Biden's mandate.

    Regulating sincerely held religious beliefs is not a simple task.

    "It can be a personal, sincerely held religious belief which arises from the very nature of freedom of religion articulated in the First Amendment," said Domenique Camacho Moran, a labor attorney at New York-based law firm Farrell Fritz.

    "The employer generally has to go with the idea that the employee's request is based on their sincerely held religious belief. But if the employer has an objective basis for questioning its sincerity, the employer is justified to seek additional information," said Keith Wilkes, an employment attorney at Tulsa, Oklahoma-based firm Hall Estill.

    "It is always possible that a local church or temple does in fact espouse a view that vaccination is contrary to religious beliefs, so there is room for the employer to dig deeper on those sorts of requests," Wilkes said.

    What's different is not the government approach, it's the depth and number of anti-vaxxers who are apparently on a death quest.

    Employers in the past have been inclined to give workers the benefit of the doubt and to accept any requests on the basis of religious beliefs as genuine. But given the high-stakes nature of the coronavirus, they are now giving such requests a second look.

    The government isn't doing anything it hasn't always done.

    What constitutes a "sincerely held" religious exemption to a vaccine mandate? - CBS News
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2021
  9. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The govt has mandated the vaccine. That is new. The jump in requests for religious exemption is from people who have, until now, not needed a religious exemption to avoid vaccination.

    The govt, until now, had no reason to regulate religious exemptions for employers because few employers required vaccination (or required a religious exemption to avoid vaccination). One would think that along with a mandate would also come regulation of exemptions to the mandate...
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2021
  10. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    That's speculation. It would be convincing if you could provide such cases occurring with religious exemptions to other vaccines, or any other risk associated with a religious exemption.
     
  11. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    It's a pandemic in the 21st century. Everything is new.

    Except it's not new. Even for measels.

    Can Employers Require Measles Vaccines? (shrm.org)

    The recent measles outbreak, resulting in mandatory vaccinations in parts of New York City, raises the question of whether employers can require that workers get the vaccine to protect against measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) or prove immunity from the illness.

    Anti-vaxxers weren't they?
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2021
  12. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Of course its speculation... you didn't think I'm from the future did you? o_O
     
  13. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    Okay. Speculation is fine if it's based on something. Like I said, find precedent and you may have a point.
     
  14. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    More moving goalposts. You say its not new, I demonstrate that is, then you say everything is new...

    Go play that with someone else, man.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2021
  15. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    Lol. You certainly don't misunderstand the difference between a global pandemic and some Orthodox Jews in NYC. And you certainly understand that NYC and the feds are both government. Why would a play on words upset you?
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2021
  16. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    Yet, but death rate is far higher in the MAGA religion compared to JWs blood thing.
     
  17. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    HIPPA, is federal law protecting medical records privacy. Biden's mandate is, in point fact illegal under federal law.
     
  18. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Religious groups have stranglehold of this nation — it is seen in the ideological makeup of both Congress and the USSC. Not to mention that is one group that if nothing more loves to force their will onto others. It was left at the discretion of the employers as governmental enforcement would have proven difficult if not impossible. I think everyone is learning rapidly from TX sidestepping the constitution with their abortion bill.

    Oh absolutely — when an individual can be given unlimited exemptions for thing they simply do not like simply by saying it is there “belief” that is what will happen.

    We need a definitive line between what is them just trying to manipulate the system and what is real faith — the two will likely be difficult to reconcile.
     
  19. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Except that isn’t what HIPPA does.

    Do you believe school mandated vaccinations are in violation of HIPPA?
     
  20. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The USSC has already ruled there are limits on that however. The enforcement action is also by the employer and not the state.
     
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  21. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    School no federal government yes. Federal government no and private businesses even less. And none of them have any right to your private medical history including vaccines taken. Private businesses least of all. Note this has already cost us 100s of front line health care workers...
     
  22. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don’t understand your response
    • School no, not a violation of HIPPA
    • Federal government yes, a violation of HIPPA
    • Federal government no, not a violation of HIPPA
    • Private business even less of a no, not a violation of HIPPA?
    I have worked for numerous employers that required medical records — you can absolutely refuse this information but such refusal can be met with termination.

    The number of healthcare workers lost to refusing to get vaccinated pales in comparison to the number lost due to burnout over patients refusing to vaccinate.
     
  23. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    The mandate really isn't the problem it is the enforcement mechanism. Under HIPPA people cannot be forced to reveal private medical information. So called vaccine pass ports are illegal until the HIPPA law is changed
     
  24. Darth Gravus

    Darth Gravus Banned

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    For those that work for the Govt they can declare a religious exemption and their manager is not even allowed to ask what religion or any details. My wife works for the VA and I printed off her Vaccine Declaration and there is a box for religious exemption on the form and many have taken it and nothing is being done about it
     
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  25. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That simply isn’t true https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-individuals/guidance-materials-for-consumers/index.html

    Also it is HIPAA — it limits what doctors and medical institutions can share. It doesn’t limit what private employers can ask you to prove. You absolutely have a choice, find another job.
     
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