The Futility of the Search For Extraterrestrial Intelligence

I'll presume for the moment that this isn't an attempt to justify the contention that there are aliens flying around Earth.

If the military believes they don't know enough about the various anomalies their pilots see, then what they will do is present a plan to a committee in congress that has major security clearance.

Or, they will present a plan to the President, who has discretion on how certain funds are allocated.

From there, they will discuss the problem and make a determination of the military actually needs stupendous amounts more tax dollars.

If they decide to send our taxes in that direction, it's quite likely that the public will never find out it, as it has security implications.

THAT is how this works.

 

West proved that the go fast video was NOTHING like what the pilot claimed.

Anyone that includes that video as "evidence" of alien craft is just trying to dupe people.

 

Watch the video, listen to the testimonies, all of it occurred before your video.

they have nothing to with your 'evidence', which, by the way,
All it is evidence of is that something in the video moved slowly. What it was has not been determined.

That fact becomes clear in the other video I linked to where he discusses the gimball video with F-16 pilot, Chris Lehton.

Did you watch that one?

 

Because your video has nothing to with what he saw. It's testimony of what he witnessed, confirmed by 3 other pilots who witnessed the same thing. The second witness is in the 60 minute video

Moreover, your 'evidence' doesn't prove what the object was, and is limited to that one video.

He is a top gun pilot. Lt Commander Frazier.

Now you are engaging in ad homs.

 

No, Hynek arrived at the point that a percentage of the citings were not explainable, and were compelling. He left it open.

I've made that one point, a number of times.

You keep ignoring what I wrote.

The claims are not made in vacuum. Watch the video, they are compelling.

 

What did Mick point out?

It went slow. So?

That's it. But that video doesn't cover all of what Frazier saw, so Mick can't account for that.

 

It came Commander Chad Underwood, that's where it came from.

How about listening to Underwood, the Pilot who actually filmed the tic tac video?

He absolutely refutes the claim made by West, that it was 'slow'. It was slow, perhaps momentarily, but it shot off to the left at hypersonic speed (because he was unable to reacquire the target and normally, his $80 million fighter should be able to)


For the first time on camera... Commander Chad Underwood clarifies and informs what happened when he encountered and recorded what is now the most famous modern UFO footage of all-time. Cmdr. Underwood is a badass Navy Weapon Systems Officer from VFA-41 (the legendary Black Aces). He was flying in an F/A-18 Super Hornet - and was responsible for fighting the aircraft. Underwood’s testimony represents the first time in history a military “whizzo” recorded a UFO during operations - and the encounter footage has been confirmed directly by the United States Government as being ACTUAL footage of an Advanced Aerospace Vehicle of unknown origin - a real UFO. Cmdr. Underwood’s account and footage also represents independent corroborating evidence to accompany the experience of Cmdr. David Fravor - the man who CHASED a TIC TAC shaped UFO with his fighter jet for our military. The advanced and unidentified craft they observed and engaged that day - was able to outpace & outmaneuver our nation's most advanced war planes. It did in-fact “zoom off” to the left of Underwood’s wing - and it broke the lock on his ATFLIR targeting pod. It had no typical aeronautics or aerospace propulsion signatures - no tail, no wings, no exhaust plumes - and it also was able to Offensively Jam our fighter plane's radar & weapons systems. This is NOT an isolated event - quite the opposite. Under the circumstances of this encounter - this is considered an ACT OF WAR by the United States Department of Defense. And typically - there are consequences. However - nothing about Cmdr. Underwood’s & Cmdr. Fravor’s experiences - were typical. What you are about to hear in this interview is important. It has historic value. It’s evidence - of advanced and unknown aerospace vehicles operating in our restricted airspace - with impunity. Displaying instantaneous acceleration and impossible speeds - technology, we simply do not have. If this is not a National Security issue - I don’t know what is. Certainly, this is an existential conundrum - and it’s time we face the UFO reality head on - whatever it might represent. But let’s hear what Commander Underwood has to say about it - after all - he is the man that filmed it… and he was there.

at 16:50 Corbell (the interviewer) asks: If someone said that the tic tac that you filmed was a US black project, you told me it's not, so tell me why you said it's not:

Underwood: If there is something out there that you have seen, as a pilot (or aviator) that you weren't supposed to see, you get vectored home, airborne in realtime, they say 'head home' and you are debriefed by someone who is briefed on the project"

He then explained that this did not happen with the tic tac, how he knows this because such things have happened to him before, and other pilots, and he went into detail of what actually happens when it happens, signing of NDAs, told 'not to speak of it' etc. and that none of this happened with the Tic Tacs.

so, this tells us that it is not 'American'.

18:25 "It had no flight characteristics, no method of lift, propulsion, things like that, and it was at a range where I would be able to distinguish flight characteristics".
19:54
Corbell: You're leaving it on the table that this could be something not from here, it could have been an extraterrestrial vehicle, we don't know?
Underwood: Oh, absolutely, yeah, totally. And, you know, as a rational human being, I leave that completely on the table,

So, @WillReadmore, do you honestly believe men of Underwood's and Fravor's caliber, would say these things if it were conventional aircraft, or a balloon or bird?

 

You know from my posts that I've listened to him.

I have NOT suggested he isn't telling the truth AS HE SEES IT.

However, it's quite common for visual observation to be totally wrong. You pointed out that's the case with Buzz Aldrin - another person I do not believe lied.

The catch is that YOU refuse to noted that in EVERY ONE of these Navy tapes there are VERY logical alternate explanations - as well as evidence that what was claimed to have been seen does NOT match the instruments in the airplane.

You point to NO justification for ignoring those instruments.

You point to NO justification for ignoring the math that proves the "go fast" claims to be ridiculous.

 

Heh, no I got that part as an analogy. But there is a lot of irony in you picking Jesus as your analogy when you could have picked a million other things. Like I said, you can't see it and I don't blame you.

 

Forget Buzz Aldrin, let's stick to these pilots, for now.

"logical explanation'.

That simply is false, and that is according to testimony of military personnel.

Your point , 'visual is often wrong' noting that the visuals are confirmed on radar is not compelling, when, for years, we have these things seen, everyday ( according to testimonies ) for years, and they are not anything that is identifiable, and they defy known physics which has been confirmed on radar. There are far more sightings and radar on just the one video your West commented on.

Yet you deny their testimony and rely totally on someone who has never operated the gear, who makes cavalier statements about what they might be, totally incongruous to confirmed facts that they have no means of propulsion, no visible surface controls, and are clocked to many thousands of miles per hour making right hand turns in supersonic speeds, his 'calculations' on on video in no way shape or form prove what they are, but the testimonies of multiple pilots over years on multiple sightings is of no interest to you?

Yet, for you, his word is the be all end all on the subject?

They have done there due diligence, they have confirmed that there are no 'simple explanations'.

You are not listening.

 

I picked the Jesus analogy because it is the most compelling.

As long as you understand what is being compared, it doesn't matter which analogy I use.

Your previous comments betray your statement the you understood the analogy. No, you didn't, or we wouldn't be having this conversation.

No, you got mixed up on an irrelevant point I didn't raise.

 

I'm not having this conversation, you are. And it's not a conversation, it's simply a cultist trying to harangue me about why your way is the truth and I'm just trying to catch a plane.

Anyone who makes statements like this...

...is arguing religion, whether you recognize that or not.

Telepathy? Really?

 

On sixty minutes, Commander Fravor told us that four pilots observed the same thing as he observed, and came to the same conclusion, that there was no banal explanation for what they observed.

Moreover, what is your evidence for it being 'quite common for visual observation by trained fighter pilots to be wrong'?
The premise is not logical given the skill and training these pilots receive, whose very lives depend on accurate vision.

Forget Buzz Aldrin, but Gordon Cooper and Dr, Edgar Mitchell claim UFOs are real.

why is that? Banal explanations? I don't think so.

That is false. Banal explanations are suggested, but they do not account for other data points.

Commander Underwood told us that their radar was being jammed by the objects. He explained how they knew this.
Banal explanations to not explain that.

you point to Mke West commenting on a short video, and he got the part wrong about how it shot off to the left. That was explained by Commander Underwood, that if his $80,000,000 fighter jet was unable to vector into position to reacquire the target, though he said he 'aggressively tried' it thushad to be moving at hypersonic speeds.

No banal explanation can explain that.

He also explained how the objects were jamming his radar.

I just explained it to you, that Mike West's claim is wholly incomplete, and misleading. The objects can remain in position, but that's not all they do, and his explanation about the shooting off to the left was incorrect, according to Underwood, who filmed the Go Fast video.


Moreover, Congress appropriated $200,000,000 for AATIP, the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program, which operated in secret for years. It is still going on under a new name.

so, you forget the fact that no way in hell would it have involved engineers and scientists for years if all long it were established that all sightings had banal explanations.

Your contention, given the above fact, makes zero sense.

Moreover, according to Lou Elizondo, former director of AATIP, he said the AATIP team have come up with what they call
the "Five Observables" about many of the UAP(UFO) sightings:

1. Positive lift, or 'anti-gravity' i.e., the ability to fly without the apparent
means of propulsion or lift

2. Instantaneous acceleration: The ability for a craft to reach a high rate of speed in
a short amount of time

"We are seeing objects that are doing 50, 100, and 200+ G forces" --- Louis Elizondo, former director
of the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program.

3. Hypersonic Velocity: A craft's ability to reach speeds in excess of over 3,700 miles per hour
Objects have been clocked at 8k,9k, and over 10k miles per hour --- Lou Elizondo

4. Low Observability: A craft's ability to conceal itself from any kind of radar.
"You're looking at an object, which radar should be able to detect very clearly, but yet
when you look at it with the naked eye, it's opaque and kind of blurry, not well-defined,
not really, not really sure what I'm looking at, and other times it looks like it's jamming"
Mike West doesn't know what jamming looks like. Underwood explained what he missed.

5. Trans-Medium Travel: A craft's ability to seamlessly move through space, air and water.
The objects can move in Space, air and water, and doesn't change it's design characteristics for
each medium.

 

Really.

We have the testimonies of thousands of subjects who have described their encounters with alien beings.

John Mack, PHD, who won the Pulitzer Prize, was the famous Harvard Psychiatrist, told he us could not find any pathological issues with these people,
they were normal in every way.

Not one of them, the ones whose testimonies match in most every regard ( which is the vast majority of them ) have told us
that they communicate via vocal, most tell us they use telepathy.

Telepathy doesn't mean religion, necessarily (because it could easily have a scientific explanation, though our technology
hasn't advanced enough to understand it), though some religions have paranormal beliefs.

I base my opinion from compelling testimony and data.

When you reply to my comments, you are, indeed, 'having this conversation'.

 

Fair point.

I've stated what I need to, and the content of your replies are further vindication of my point. I wish you well.

 

I'll file that in the wishful thinking file.

 

I have NEVER denied their testimony.

I've told YOU that before on several occasions.

So, please stick to what I've said in what you claim I've said. Is that not reasonable to you???

I have not depended on anyone's "word".

In fact, any high school kid has the math to show that the "go fast" video does NOT show a fast object.

The pilot thought the object was fast. Fine. That does NOT mean it was fast, as ordinary math clearly demonstrates.

Mick West and many others have shown that the events the pilots describe have perfectly reasonable real world explanations.

 

Once again, the claims made in your video have been solidly debunked.

There are fully normal explanations for all of those cases.

In fact, I've posted them to you!

Obviously, these "5 observables" would be pretty fantastic, but there isn't solid evidence for having witnessed ANY of those.

 

No, you have not.

And that is false.

I'll take Elizondo, Fravor, and Underwood's testimony over his.

MOreover, Fravor said 3 other pilots witness what he witnessed and confirmed his conclusion and the second pilot confirmed it, who is in the 60 minute video.

Elizondo stated that this five observables were established by the team which comprised AATIP, which included scientists and engineers. These determinations were made over radar data, videos, many more than the three that were released.

There is no way in hell the would have appropriated $200,000,000 for several years for AATIP if 'banal explanations' were all there was to it.

How can you deny this?

West is NOT proof of anything, his determinations are severely flawed.
His word is not the final word on anything on this subject.

How can you deny this?

 

But the issue on Go Fast was the fast dart off screen to the left, which West misinterpreted, and thus his calculation for that section is irrelevant (if, indeed, he made such a calculation, I don't remember), because what is happening onscreen is not what he claimed is happening. Listen to the video interview with the pilot Chad Underwood ( I provided the link ) who filmed the Go Fast video.

 

The military is not there to feed your love of space aliens.

They are there to analyze threat. And, that analysis is highly secret, as it involves craft, weapons and other technology from other countries as well as the FACT that military analysis demonstrates what WE can detect and how we go about detection and analysis.

NONE of that will be released to the foreign powers by feeding the desire of the public for "evidence" of aliens.


YOUR videos include the "go fast" video.

And, THAT video is so absolutely and thoroughly debunked that the very fact that it EXISTS in your videos damns them as the acts of charlatans.

 

No, the "go fast" video is the one where the object is a weather balloon.

And, the one where the object moves off screen has been shown to be an effect of the automated camera system, NOT of the object.

 

Who mentioned space aliens?

So, all the fighter pilots are charlatans?

I think not.

 

Claimed by who? West?

Wrong.

That is confirmed as absolutely false by Chad Underwood, the pilot (a Commander ) WHO FILMED THE VIDEO, who chased the object after it darted off radar, chased it aggressively to reacquire it on the pod, but the object eluded his $80,000,000 jet, thus proving it moved at hypersonic speed. What West claimed happened did not happen. It was NOT an artifact of the camera.

So, West is wrong.

And is the FACT of the matter.

You have also failed to refute my other points, which are VALID.

the debate is NOT about 'space aliens'.

It's about your FALSE assertion that ALL the videos have banal explanations.

Some, perhaps, but not all, hence the 5 observables.

 

HEY - over and over again I've pointed out to you that I have NOT considered ANY of those pilots to be charlatans.

Why do you BASE your argument on that fallacy?