3 killed, 6 injured in shooting at Oxford High School in Michigan

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Andrew Jackson, Nov 30, 2021.

  1. Phyxius

    Phyxius Well-Known Member

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  2. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    Oh really. Why don't you show the figures for 2020
     
  3. Phyxius

    Phyxius Well-Known Member

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    The parents could be facing charges themselves. :applause:

    Charging decision anticipated for Michigan shooter's parents
     
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  4. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    AJ have you read up on gun violence stats yet?
     
  5. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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  6. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

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    That's just an emotional response, you have no evidence of an entire country doing something. This is called projecting.
     
  7. Phyxius

    Phyxius Well-Known Member

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    The state of Michigan might not agree...

    “All I can say at this point is those actions on mom and dad’s behalf go far beyond negligence,” Oakland County prosecutor Karen McDonald said. “We obviously are prosecuting the shooter to the fullest extent. ... There are other individuals who should be held accountable.”

    The semi-automatic gun was purchased by Crumbley's father last week, according to investigators.

    “The parents were the only individuals in the position to know the access to weapons,” McDonald told WJR-AM. The gun “seems to have been just freely available to that individual.”
     
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  8. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    Do I need to explain to you that an accusation, or weasel wording using "seems", does not equate to a matter of fact?
    You can swing back by here and crow your victory if you win it dear. Until then its quite premature.
     
  9. Phyxius

    Phyxius Well-Known Member

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    I don't see the word "seems" on my end of the conversation, dear... 1584414804.3941-smiley.gif
     
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  10. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    I agree. People do have the right to self defense.
     
  11. Lindis

    Lindis Banned

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    US-Whites ....
     
  12. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    That includes everyone, including murderers and other criminals. After all, they are people too, right?
     
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  13. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    I see. ;-)

    THE GUARDIAN, Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show, Police record 10% rise in crime in England and Wales, with 18% increase in violent crime and significant rise in murder rate, Alan Travis Home affairs editor, Thu 20 Jul 2017.
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jul/20/official-figures-show-biggest-rise-crime-in-a-decade

    Gun Control = Crime Waves
     
  14. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Do you deny that violent crime including gun crime has soared since the Dunblane gun ban?
    Or not? ;-)
     
  15. MiaBleu

    MiaBleu Well-Known Member

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  16. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    Hey, @Polydectes, my bad. I started writing this response yesterday and totally forgot about posting it. Old age, man. ;-)
    I understand that but it's us that push for these laws. They didn't fall from the sky. And, unfortunately, our leaders reactive versus proactive.
    I don't think I mentioned anything about inconveniencing gun owners? I'm tired though so maybe I did. If so, with rights comes with responsibilities and if one attesting to the fact they are mentally stable and of legal age to buy a firearm, they should also be cognizant that their weapon(s) need to be secured. It's understable they might not be if a person lives alone but that is where the line should be drawn.

    For example, when I was married, I lived in a raised ranch (stairs go up and another set goes downstairs from the entryway). We refurbished the house and never replaced the railing that was a barrier so as to not fall over the ledge on the top floor. Almost a decade later, we had a baby and put the railing in. This is the same concept with guns. There are risks everywhere and sane people should understand how to mitigate some of them and, if they can't, they probably shouldn't have any weapons.
    But, that's the issue. @Bowerbird posted something recently about guns and my opinion is the same as it was in that thread. Sure, we can take weapons from all murderers or attempted would-be-murderers but those aren't the people causing the problems we're facing with this mass shooting thing. Those people are already excluded. We're talking about people that is not on any law enforcement radar, no mental health issues of note, basically just regular people who are being bullied or believe they are being bullied getting fed up and unleashing. There is no way to identify these people because they haven't done anything to warrant being denied a weapon.

    How do we reach those people BEFORE <their destructive end>?
    I don't watch television but it sounds like it's just toxic and sensationalistic as it was when I did watch 20+ years ago.

    Beyond the sensationalism, there is another agenda. The media is used to divide us and because we're always bickering over little things, all the big things get ignored.

    MJ wrote in previous post]
    I'm not a mental health professional. However, there's the issue I'm focused on. What happened between a kid growing up and him/her taking a weapon in public for the sole purpose of killing people?

    And, if a parent or parents aren't aware their kid is that close to mass murder and/or suicide, they aren't responsible anyway.
    I didn't intend to make it sound trite. Let me start with an anecdote. One of my mother's cousins was killed in a road rage incident. I was a kid when it happened so I don't know the details, but, I remember that every time I get behind the wheel. I NEVER get road rage. I don't get intensely angry in general. It's a waste of energy.

    So, like you and me, we know how to deescalate potentially dangerous situations. We aren't the target audience for gun law reforms. The people that do act aggressively when facing a threat are the ones that are not going to assess the situation quickly or bring it down a notch.
    I don't understand this statement.
    Thank you. I know both of the two people I referenced in my earlier post would still be alive if they didn't have immediate access to a loaded weapon. Neither of them was suicidal or distressed by anything more than daily life we all face. And, in both, cases, there was one "BIG" thing that tipped the scales. Neither was planned, there were no warning signs because there were no major issues prior to the catalyst.

    One guy, a military veteran, my age, was like a brother to me. In fact, I was closer to him than I was to my biological brother. His girlfriend refused to let him see their newborn baby and attacked him in his parents' house. He tried to get away as he wouldn't hit a woman, went to the drawer and shot himself. No warnings or threats at all.

    The other one was my uncle's fiancee. She was an RN and did some modeling work. A beautiful woman with the kindest heart. She caught him cheating on her. She was crushed. She ran to get his gun, ran down the street to my grandmother's house and shot herself on the porch. It took no more than a few minutes.

    And, I agree with you. If someone wants to commit suicide or murder, they WILL find a way.
    I'm not sure if you're mixing me up with another poster but I've never and do not believe that guns should be taken from law-abiding, responsible, mentally stable people. Our subgroup is not the issue.
    Agreed.
     
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  17. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Me just with the suicides think on this - often even a small delay will cause the person to rethink and saves lives - that is why locking guns away reduces risk of suicide
    https://jech.bmj.com/content/58/10/841

    according to that study there is a reduction in suicide if the firearm is left unloaded
     
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  18. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    Yep, another prime example of a gun making the household less safe rather than more safe. If the boy hadn't shot up the school, he could have used the gun for suicide.

    In any case, parent buys gun, now their life is destroyed. Will the 2nd amendment nuts learn from this? Of course not, they dig in their heels and shout more "guns don't kill people, people kill people". The emotional attachment to the gun stash must be strong.
     
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  19. Big Richard

    Big Richard Banned

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    That’s what happens when you have gun control and Gun free zones. If everyone could carry like he 2nd ammendment says then we wouldn’t even be having this conversation But since this punk knew his schoolmates wouldn’t be armed he made them the victims that the antis wanted them to be.
     
  20. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Oh! Wow! Here comes the NRA misinformation machine again

    Look up the REAL story behind “gun free zones” including who first was advocating for them “cough””cough” NRA
     
  21. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    Only in America is it possible that the proposal to solve the problem of frequent school mass shootings is to arm hormonal HS students to the teeth. What about MS? Elementary school? Should Kindergardeners walk around with AR15s strapped around their neck?

    As to @Bowerbird's comment, gun free zones are the old tired NRA argument. Of course, gun free zones don't mean anything if everywhere around the gun free zone is awash with guns.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2021
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  22. MiaBleu

    MiaBleu Well-Known Member

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    Will they learn??? The only thing they will"learn" is reinforce their belief that even more guns are needed for "self protection"............They would probably support weapons in schools..........

    They are hardwired now into their gun" values" and beliefs. They feel very threatened /terrified by any possible gun control ...........After all.......how will they revolt if in their perception the gov.........tampers wither their "freedoms". "self defense" as a term has been expanded in definition now too.

    Bottom line: They love their weapons.......... as weapons seem to empower them...psychologically......
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2021
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  23. MiaBleu

    MiaBleu Well-Known Member

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    It is a cultural MINDSET ....and very firmly entrenched now.
     
  24. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    Correct. The biggest deterrent to suicide, homicide and many other escalated situations is adequate and competent mental health services in which one is not stigmatized, shamed and/or punished (e.g. lose the opportunity for promotion and/or retaining a job). Until we, society, stops labeling people and shunning them, we will always have this issue.

    I have complex-PTSD and sought help because I did not want to inflict my pain onto others who had nothing to do with the traumas that lead to that. At that time, I honestly did not understand why my therapist said that I was a strong person because I made the effort to seek help and do the work required for me to rebalance things. It wasn't until a few months ago the reasoning behind that was made clear. I have a close friend that does anything and everything to manipulate men into having sex with her. Time and time again she meets up with users and losers and gets hurt repeatedly. She absolutely refuses to seek mental health assistance. She is aware that she is being reckless but she won't stop and assess the issues that lead her to do those things. I've been trying for almost two years to get her to just pause and reflect on her behavior that leads to these awful ends for her. She won't do it. She has no interest in anything other than men.

    So, with that in mind, we have to accept there are countless people that refuse to get a check on their own demons and day-after-day they are allowing their reckless thoughts to control their behavior, versus the other way around. And, if they don't have some kind of early intervention, they will continue to act out causing trauma to themselves and everyone around them. At some point, we have to accept that mental illnesses exist and there are countless people that need that and they shouldn't be stigmatized, ostracized, terminated, passed over for promotions (their work warrants) or anything else. As long as we do not do that, we are going to see more and more mass shootings, more police officers just explode and others deflecting their internal pain on innocent children and/or the general public. It's not something we can afford to ignore anymore. How many people have to die at the hands of these mass shooters before we STOP pretending it's some kind of irrelevant fluke or character flaw when it actually is a societal flaw?

    True, however, an unloaded weapon is useless when one is faced with a home invader. Criminals and would-be-criminals rely on the element of surprise. They aren't going to stand around waiting for a breached home owner to retrieve and load his/her ammunition. And. unless that home owner is very skilled in loading a weapon, the sheer magnitude of having an invader in their home will make that even harder to do.
     
  25. MiaBleu

    MiaBleu Well-Known Member

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    @MJDavies

    Unfortunately ........ many folks with problems don't realize they have a problem. Many don't have the insight h / self awareness .........or are simply delusional in their beliefs............ and this is where an intervention is needed to get them the help they need. Many don't want to admit to problems........as they are afraid of being seen as "weak". Unfortunate too.....the American culture puts so much emphasis on being strong, capable confident & successful that anything else is perceived by many in a negative way.

    This is actually an unhealthy culture....... as it does not accept that many people have issues.
    and then the cost of mental health care is a factor too.

    So man of these incidents could have been prevented if parents, teachers would recognize behavior problems early.........and facilitate appropriate help.

    The problem too is that folks don't want to consider the mental health component of this........... and prefer to see it as a criminal situation.(or a gun rights situation)........ and thus justify gun ownership. This obsession with weapons has reached extreme levels. If the need for weapons is so great ......... that speaks to the kind of society one lives in.......and tolerates.

    As far as weapons and home security goes.........why not get a good security system that will alert the authorities when there is a "threat ". or "intruder) Something that is very ;noisy and attention creating. and will turn on every light in and around the home.
     
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