It wasn't a hoax

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Patricio Da Silva, Dec 6, 2021.

  1. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You said the Steele Dossier was a hoax. This proved differently.
     
  2. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    The title of the article by Frump 'it is not a hoax' is a rhetorical reply to republicans oft said 'the Russia investigation was a hoax'.

    So, 'it' in the title is the Russia investigation. The point is the right has used the Dossier as a red herring to deflect way from a greater truth, than the so-called Russia investigation was never a hoax, and the evidence clearly points to that conclusion.
     
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  3. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    No, if you had read the article by Frum, which I repeated as the title, "It" refers to the Russia investigation, an the point of the article is that the Dossier is a red herring. Whether or not the Dossier is true is irrelevant to the entire point of the OP the premise of which I only highlighted.

    I can see now that that point was point was not made clear enough.
     
  4. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Steele Dossier was the basis for the Russia Investigation. They did an illegal investigation including an illegal wire tap.

    It is not a crime by Trump for the Russians to want Trump to win. The democrats should investigate the Russians. Only this time, they should not use phony documents as the basis.

    And investigate Hilliary, of course.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2021
  5. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    It wasn't a hoax

    Pardon me for snickering.
     
  6. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Bolton is a neocon war monger whose problem with trump was that he wouldn't kill enough black and brown people in the Middle East. I find nothing he says to be credible.
     
  7. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    "As I know all too well certain members of the board will never, ever, accept the simple, uncomplicated facts Frum points to. They seek to disassemble the greater truths about Mueller's findings by failing to distinguish what he revealed with whether it met the high bar of a criminal conspiracy Mueller himself set. They think disparaging the unpolished, rough intel Steele put together as part of his work for Fusion GPS (he didn't know Fusion's client was Clinton's lawyer) changes what we know about the Trump campaign's actions. It doesn't. No one, not you, not I, will ever convince them of this. They are lost in the haze people like Billy the Bagman, Trump, and right wing media have created to prevent a clear understanding of what transpired. They will never find their way out. In large part because they do not want to. Because once they challenge these fatuous beliefs the rest will fall like dominoes."

    The Quixotic attempt to get The Following to accept the facts remains Quixotic.
     
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  8. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Russia investigation was tainted from the start with false information. There was never any collusion and the Mueller team knew that. Weissman did what Weissman always does and that’s create crimes which he tried to do with obstruction.

    The fact is the investigation should have never happened in the first place. A true insurrection.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2021
  9. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    In answer to your question, yes this OP article is a joke. It's amazing the lengths that delusional conspiracy theorists will go.
     
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  10. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    That seemed to be the whole point. If Germany feels secure enough in it's relationship to Russia to become energy dependent on them, it calls into question why we are in an alliance to protect Germany from Russia. It seems pointless to have an alliance to protect Russia's customers from Russia.
     
  11. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    The Germans believe they can be simultaneously dependent on and opposed to Russia.
     
  12. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Frum is a clown.

    House Dems: Maybe we should stop talking about Trump all the time

    [​IMG]
    You think?
    Maybe hump the Russia Collusion some more!
    They say or show Trump and they get ratings. So it's Trump/Trump/Trump or their ratings swirl down the toilet.

    Have you considered a big "Americans are Racist" campaign?

    How about: "Burn down your downtown as a 'Justice' statement" while "looters redistribute wealth"?

    Maybe "Masks Forever!" or "Get a Vaccine Booster Pump Implanted or Lose Your Job!"

    Pushing Russian Collusion is probably as good as any, get William Crystal to sign on. He's another big draw.
     
  13. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    You are factually incorrect:

    https://www.oversight.gov/sites/default/files/oig-reports/o20012.pdf

    ...Steele's reports played no role in the Crossfire Hurricane opening
    But to welcome Russian's help and deny it was happening was an abuse of power, and that he did do.
    Factually incorrect, see above.
    Already been done. Nothing came of it.
     
  14. popscott

    popscott Well-Known Member Donor

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    There is nothing in the Dossier that was proven true. ""The Mueller Report substantiates the core reporting and many of the specifics in Christopher Steele's 2016 memoranda,""" Mueller provided not one bit of EVIDENCE to back up their assertions.....

    and the fact that they used any of the Dossier in any of the FISA warrants shows the corruption that went on... it was unverified... plain and simple ... The FISA warrants specifically states at the top the information used is verified...

    upload_2021-12-6_19-5-48.png
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2021
  15. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I don't think they're that dumb.
     
  16. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The document is two years old. A lot has happened in two years.
    They have investigated Trump and nothing came of it.
     
  17. Aristotle66

    Aristotle66 Banned

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    Mueller's report is what matters. I never understood why people bother with the Steele dossier.
     
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  18. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    You disproved nothing
     
  19. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    The dossier correctly pointed out that Russia was trying to help Trump via the means mentioned. This fact is overwhelmingly proven in the Mueller report.

    True or not, it's a moot point, the OP is not about the dossier's veracity, it's about the fact that the right has been hyping it as a red herring to direct attention away from the Russia investigation, that the Russia investigation, wasn't a hoax.
     
  20. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Frum disproves the right's contention that the Russia investigation was a hoax.

    A hoax means something is a prank, or a deception.

    The investigation was properly predicated, as indicated in the exec summary of Horowitz's IG report, that the Dossier had nothing to do with the initiation of Crossfire hurricane.

    That they didn't find anything to indict Trump on does not equal 'hoax' it equals the fact that an investigation has had a successful outcome. There are two, or three possible outcomes of an investigation, and all are successful outcomes:

    1. They could exonerate Trump.
    2. They could indict trump or provide info for Congress to impeach
    3. A combination of #1 and #2.

    #3 is the outcome.

    It was not a hoax, therefore, as Frump has correctly indicated.
     
  21. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are using an interview with MSNBC as proof?
     
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  22. popscott

    popscott Well-Known Member Donor

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    No it wasn't proven .... Mueller provided no proof... just their assertions.. It is a liberal thing when the words "Russians" and "Russian government " mean the same thing...

    that the Russia investigation, wasn't a hoax.
    The Russia investigation did not tie the Trump campaign to the Russians government to affect the 2016 election at all at all..

    """It remains fact that Russian hackers and spies
    helped his campaign. It remains fact that the Trump
    campaign welcomed the help...It remains fact that Trump
    and those around him lied, and lied, and lied again about
    their connections to Russia."""

    Prove it yourself... show us these "factual" documents that Russian hackers and spies helped his campaign.

    And please oh please... try and throw in the 4 intelligence agency report... I beg you...
     
  23. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    MSNBC is beside the point. The video quotes the Atlantic, the magazine is prominently displayed in the video, and Frum is interviewed to explain his argument.

    KTM (kill the messenger ) isn't a valid argument applied across the board. Wisdom dictates dealing with articles and videos on a case by case basis and examining who is doing the interviewing, talking. Mika and Scarborough are credible persons, and very much closer to the center, than, say, Maddow.
     
  24. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    I repeat:

    True or not, it's a moot point, the OP is not about the dossier's veracity, it's about the fact that the right has been hyping it as a red herring to direct attention away from the Russia investigation, that the Russia investigation was a hoax because of it, but, the facts reveal, as told by Frum, that it ( the investigation) wasn't a hoax.
     
  25. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't use Fox. You should not use MSNBC.
     

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