US/NATO rule out halt to expansion,reject Russia demands.

You misinterpret exactly what "half life" means.

And even Carl Sagan abandoned belief in a "nuclear winter" before he died. And he was basically the father of the idea.

 

Half life means the amount of time that it takes for half of a radioactive substance to decay.

He did not abandon his belief in nuclear winter, and neither has any other scientist.

 

Sounds like the only survivor will be Keith Richards

 

People should be able to survive if they can remain underground for the first three years.

People will have shortened lifespans for the next 500 years, but they should be able to live long enough to produce offspring.

 

Correct, technically but.

For example just because it takes 500 years for some radioactive substance to decay DOES NOT mean that the most dangerous parts of that radioactive substance take that long to decay.

 

The general rule is you need to wait 15 to 20 half lives before a dangerous radioactive substance stops being dangerous.

 

That was guerrilla and even asymmetric war, not conventional. Conventional is like WWII, or so I've always been told.

 

When speaking of nuclear war, "conventional" is used to refer to war fought with ordinary weapons instead of with nuclear weapons.

 

OIC OK , you're right then, but I'd always heard that guerrilla war wasn't conventional

 

Yes, at some point nukes will be normalized. People had this revulsion with other weapons in the past,
such as the early blunderbusses and early machine guns. These were seen as obscenely cruel and
inhumane. Small tactical nukes will eventually become a part of everyone's armory - they are 1940's
technology after all.

But... tactical to strategic isn't much of a step, more a technicality actually.

 

Gulf War 1 was conventional but they didn't finish it.

 

or Desert Storm.

 

There are extremely different levels of danger regarding radioactivity though. I learned this when studying nuclear decay in regards to the disposal of nuclear wastes.

 

Exactly, thank you

Belying me with Saddam but agreeiing with me on ISIS

 

Dude. Small pox blankets and other bio warfare is 1800's tech, you don't see us tossing virus bombs ffs.
Nukes are not machineguns: They irradiate targets you didn't even aim at by fallout. This lasts decades on decades.
Fission weapons are not usable on a planet you want to continue to inhabit.

 

So you think nuclear war will eventually become normalized?

I have to disagree. Anyone who's seen photos of Hiroshima or Nagasaki will agree with that. Nuclear war would destroy civilization at the very least and probably all life if it is thorough or prolonged.

And you are completely discounting what most experts say would be the major and most unpredictable problems, the effects of all the extremely increased radioactivity everywhere. Jesus Christ, you think Chernobyl, Fukushima or 3 Mile Island was bad, think of what several actual H Bombs going off would do.

Nuclear war is insane. Thinking it will ever be acceptable is simply humanity committing suicide, no less.

Radiation Blues

"Old H bomb went off last tuesday
I was walking in the Park
Didn't mind those busted street lights
I was glowing in the dark
Just call me glowworm
Got Radiation Blues"

 

Radiation from nuclear explosions is normally far less per unit of energy expended compared to nuclear power systems.

And you talk about photos of Hiroshima and Nagasaki but ignore that the firebombings of cities like Tokyo were even more destructive

 

Russia doesn't have the capability to occupy Europe. Throwing conventional forces at them would be a waste. Let them overextend. Up our cyber/spy capability. Work with the unwillingly occupied to resist.

 

Non sequitur.

You said that Russia doesn't have the capability to occupy Europe. But the last sentence you talked about working with the "unwillingly occupied".

 

More immediately destructive. They didn't make the land for miles around ****ing radioactive.

 

Neither do nuclear explosions.

Do you have any idea how many nuclear weapons were detonated in the open air by the U.S.?

 

Nazi Germany didn't have the ability to win a two front war with a russian component fighting during the winter.
Doing so would surely overextend their capabilities and lead to their sure collapse.
They did it anyway. People do not always make rational decisions.

 

NATO is a military alliance. I think that inviting a nation that borders Russia, and the heart of Russia at that, to a military alliance, is provocative.

 

Did you just say that fission weapons don't irradiate their targets or cause fallout?

Go swim on one of the islands they tested nukes on then.

 

I'm not saying it wouldn't be painful if they tried. But we should be able to win without throwing massive numbers of troops at them.