Who does—and doesn’t—support sending U.S. troops to Ukraine

Yeah, generals are corrupt. Politicians are corrupt. Churches are corrupt. Bankers are corrupt.
Our history is corrupt. Our values are corrupt.

But Giftedone is a paragon of virtue, and he is willing to surrender his country to Putin's regime,
Xi's government, Maduro's cabinet and Kim Jong-un's revolutionary council because he cannot
stand the corruption of America.

 

China has been testing hypersonic missiles for several years now. So has the United States, Russia, various NATO allies, and even Japan.

https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2021-11/news/us-hypersonic-capabilities-advance

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti..., and Russia,have tested a hypersonic missile.

However, that Chinese hypersonic missile is not going outside the PRC into Ukraine considering that Russia has them too.

 

What a raging pile of strawmen .. I was appealing to the credibility of the General. so a complete misrepresentation .. taking another posters position reversed to mine ... and pretendint it was my position. What a joike

You got the paragon of virtue part correct ... but then accused me of all kinds of false nonsense .. of which you are guilty. You are the one surrenduring Country to Putin .. Xi and Kim Jong un.. Don't be pinning me with your failings mate ..

You the one been selling out the principles of the Nation .. wanting to violate the rule of law 6 ways to Sunday in desperate Russia Lust - wanting to sieze the assets of the Oligarchs. ... sell our future down the road on the basis of a moment of passion. .. on bended knee .. begging to give up essential liberty for "security" on the basis of an external threat ... Not exactly the picture of a Patriot mate..

 

Yeah .. The poster doesn't believe they are real

 

He said there was a "test". You do know that a "test" in no way means weapons have been actively deployed don't you?

 

I think our red lines, at a minimum, need to be 1) no attack on NATO, 2) no WMD use, 3) no threats of WMD use.

But red lines don't matter if Putin knows you aren't in a position to back it up. I'm not sure what NATO has done on troop placement. But I would say if they need at least 100k troops in eastern Europe now. At least 500 fighters in eastern Europe in addition to a carrier in both the North Sea and Mediterranean. Kyrgyzstan allowed us to build up forces there in order to attack Afghanistan. Maybe they will again?

But if you don't have the above, and you are making threats of a no fly zone, etc., Putin won't respect it. He needs to know that you are capable of MASSIVE enforcement within the hour.

 

How many of you hawks have children in the military, like I do?

My child did not swear an oath to serve and protect Ukraine.

You say "we" should do this and "we" should do that. Nothing prevents you from flying to Poland today, crossing into Ukraine, and fighting the Russians yourself. But of course you'd rather my child do the fighting for you.

 

Your child volunteered to go fight where and who they are told to.

So please stop your whining.

 

Can't remember? Mike showed you the poll in the OP. Do you dispute the numbers?

The numbers surprise me not at all. Liberals are idealists, and so of course they (and the neocons, to be fair) want to make the world safe for democracy. They won't do it themselves, of course. They want soldiers to do it for them, as they simultaneously look down their noses at the under educated high school grads who will actually pay the ultimate price.

 

No, please stop YOUR whining. You want to kill Russians? In Ukraine?? Go right ahead. But no, you'd rather stay safely behind the keyboard and mock my kid. F U

 

I'm 54 years old genius. And I'm suffering from kidney failure and receive dialysis three times a week.

Don't mock me buster.

 

That's a very black and white view.

 

Nah, I just actually read the OP, which is why I know it wasn't about "talking favorably about Russia." If you read the poll, you'll see the same.

 

And one that involves not actually reading the poll.

 

Oh, I do most affirmatively mock you, though with no pleasure. Armchair warriors are the worst thing that a society can produce.

There is a scene in the movie "All Quiet on the Western Front", I think, where a German high school teacher (naturally, LOL) exhorts the young cannon fodder to rush to the front for the glory of the Fatherland, which he, sounding just like you, stays safe and warm in the classroom. He is exempt from military service because of his age (ring a bell?) Anyone who doesn't find that scenario revolting is an execrable individual.

The Ukrainian resistance fighters will find a job for you when you cross over from Poland, despite your age and renal infirmities, if you will put your money -- and life -- where your mouth is. But I got a hundred bucks says you won't. Combat is so ... uncomfortable, n'est-ce pas?

 

I didn't say anything about "talking favorably about Russia". I don't see it in the OP either.

Whom are you quoting?

 

That is your child's job if they volunteered. It was the same for me, during my 20 years. Nothing happened my first few years, then after 9-11 I found myself deploying back to back 4 times. If a crisis comes up, and our government determines it is in this nation's best interest to fight, that is what our soldiers will do, whether or not you agree or whether or not your child agrees. That is the nature of the beast. I say "we", because regardless of what happens, our troops will always have my support, as I understand from first hand experience the extreme danger and hardship they are enduring, as well as the hardship their families are going through.

 

'6 ways to Sunday'
Is that a saying? Never heard of it before. Sounds funny.

As I see it, you are either with us or against us. I grew up with my compatriots marching in the streets, crying
out, 'Ho, Ho, Ho Chi Minh.' They were quick to tell you they 'didn't support Communism' but of course they did.
Their support was more than a hundred divisions of support to North Vietnam.
See it all the time, ie 'We aren't supporting Sadaam Hussein, we are just against America.'
Julian Assange is a classic example. Never provoked Russia or China. And now finally, he's going to spend his
days in the Great Satan.

 

Of course they are actively deployed .. Specially by Russia who was first to test hypersonics near a decade ago. Would be moronic for these 3 nations to build and test missiles but not deploy them .. and equally moronic to think the China/Russia/India consotia are morons.

 

Black and White paradigms are the stuff on which dumb ideas and moronic platitudes are built ... and a fine line between bravery and stupidity.

Not sure what this has to do with you being Anti American - Selling out the founding principles - Rule of Law - Principles of Justice and international law ... then running around accusing others of your misgivings.

What Assange has to do with going after Rich Russians .. I have no idea . but, a good example of selling princples down the road in the "Heat of the Moment" .. now lasting 10 years or more with this guy.

 

My family were in America from 1640 to ca 1900. Love the country and its values.
Yes, it IS black and white in these situations. I would have opposed the pacifists in
pre Dec 1941 USA too. Sometimes the situation comes down to supporting your
enemy or opposing him - no third way. Putin would love you to be a third way guy
as that means you support his way by hindering your nation AND ITS VALUES
from being able to defend itself.
Frankly, I am more shocked by the closing of ranks in Western opinion (even the
Woke) than anything else in this 'military exercise.'

 

Black and White paradigms are the stuff on which dumb ideas and moronic platitudes are built ... and a fine line between bravery and stupidity.

Not sure what this has to do with you being Anti American - Selling out the founding principles - Rule of Law - Principles of Justice and international law ... then running around accusing others of your misgivings.

"Nato Values" thats humorous .. NATO is violating its values - or at least certain NATO members.

You wish to deny that actions have consequences - which is self deception. You think "Do as I Say - Not as I Do" are words to live by .. as it can be no other way in the black vs white paradigm

 

Putin doesn't mind your intellectualizing of things. He appreciates your nit picking of NATO and its values.
He finds it wonderful that you have reached your OWN point of view. All this means that you support him
simply by not supporting your own.
This is the conclusion the Islamists have reached - the West doesn't have the stomach for the fight and
the conviction to defend itself.

 

Putin doesn't mind your disregard for the Rule of Law - International Law, norms, principles ... loves that you even admit it. Heir Putin doesn't have much respect for the Rule of Law either ... but at least he doesn't go as far as the Islamists ... the party you keep company with in terms of ideological perspective .. Putin definitely minds this .. and so you have succeeded in irritating him ..

Is it a good idea to base one's entire philosophy on what will irritate Putin ... I don't think so but, what do I know .. folks having this perspective often seem quite blissfull ..

 

I see now that you served in the military. I apologize for my intemperate remark above and thank you for your service.