Russia Angrily Demands U.S. Stop Sending Weapons to Ukraine

That would have been 100% true pre invasion, but no longer is... Both countries recognize Russia is now led by an unstable man and would prefer to be inside the corral instead of outside...

 

Because a more aggressive side drops their internal pact means the less aggressive side should drop theirs??

If countries like Finland and Sweden feel that joining NATO is still a viable move in 2022, then there likely is a need for NATO...

I think the events of the past 2 months would have made that completely obvious.

 

This vote was about sanctions against oligarchs, but I'll post it in this thread, primarily because of the head-scratching 8 members who voted against it.

SNIP
Eight House lawmakers voted against a largely symbolic bill on Wednesday that urges President Biden to confiscate assets from sanctioned Russian oligarchs and use the funds to support Ukraine.

The legislation, dubbed the Asset Seizure for Ukraine Reconstruction Act, passed in a 417-8 vote.

Reps. Cori Bush (D-Mo.), Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.), Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.), Rashida Tlaib (D-Mich.), Madison Cawthorn (R-N.C.), Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.), Thomas Massie (R-Ky.) and Chip Roy (R-Texas) voted against the bill.
ENDSNIP

https://www.yahoo.com/news/four-republicans-four-democrats-vote-235113030.html

So, you have 4 member of the Squad and 4 members of the Fraud agreeing on something for some reason? Who had that in their Congressional pool?

 

The "less aggressive side" created the need to continue with NATO after 1989 by using NATO in countries it was not created for. I hope I don't need to point out those countries. How about going back to 1989 and see who the more aggressive country is. How many wars the US as been in compared to Russia. Let's hope NATO countries are well disciplined and don't start a war with Russia because they misread Russia's intentions.

 

i foresee me losing interest in this exactly now.

 

Because Putin kept his promise to retaliate if NATO continued to push towards Russia? That's not a sign of being unstable, it is someone who meant what he said. The US just never really understood Putin and his determination to stop NATO's advancement. When a bully keeps pushing someone eventually that bully will get what he deserves.

 

I think Genghis Kahn was the last Eastern victor in the East-West struggle.

 

Current events seem to bear that out.

 

Much of US military spending goes into paychecks and benefits and keeping the many bases operating around the world. The fuel it takes to keep the military running. Every base has a mall, theater, bowling alley etc. Putin does not spend much on the military in ways of comfort and income including benefits. He also does not have so many bases to maintain. Most of his defense spending goes towards weapons research and making them. His military is ran on Russian gas. These differences need to be taken into consideration when comparing US spending to Russia's.

 

I find it interesting to hear how people think the bully is the victim. The bully who never ended the Cold War after the Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact collapsed. The bully who created this mess wants us to believe it's all Russia's fault. I'm not siding with Putin, I think what he is doing is indefensible but he did warn the world this would happen if he continued to see NATO expanding out towards Russia. I believe there was a real opportunity for peace in Europe from 1989 on but keeping NATO in place put an end to that possibility. I guess we will never know now what might have been.

 

Not openly but you can bet the US government is doing just that. It has to in order to continue as a super power. Read the history of past super powers and their eventual collapse.

 

99.9% chance that doesn't happen... the much larger worry is that Russia will decided to attack a NATO country for supporting Ukraine with military aid, which I suspect would be another huge miscalculation...

But reading "Russia's intentions" is a near impossible task, since it seems to be tied to the whims of a single man...

 

NATO hasn't expanded since 2009 and had no current applications at the time of the invasion. That's a long time to wait to back a promise.

There is zero evidence NATO pushed towards Russia.... If Ukraine decided to voluntarily join NATO someday, that's NATO being pulled towards Russia... Can anybody blame countries like Poland and Romania and the Baltics for learning from the past??

I don't understand this strange desire to blame NATO for countries wanting to join their mutual defense organization when there are always rogue states nearby??

https://www.politifact.com/factchec...hecking-claims-nato-us-broke-agreement-again/

Again, the irony is that pre-invasion, Russia only had 3 very small NATO borders (2 Baltics and a bit of Norway). Now, it's possible they'll have a huge one in Finland..

 

pooteen is nothing more than a 10-year-old bully informing his target that his dad can beat up your dad, even though his dad isn't an idiot and wouldn't even attempt such a thing. If he actually intended to go nuclear over this kind of crap he would have by now, but he knows that's quite literally committing suicide. So he'll huff and he'll puff, but in end, he won't even try to blow our house down.

He can kiss my lily white ass and take the beatdown he's about to get like a man.

 

Ignoring the obvious. NATO is no threat to Russia. Never has been. Never will be.

 

You forgot Turkey.

 

Absolutely right!
Aside from the fact that the US has by far the largest military budget...more than the next 10 combined, including Russia, China, France, Britain, Germany...it's because of the US's global presence and base maintenance . Then there are other things like 11 Nimitz and Ford class aircraft carriers in the US Navy, more aircraft carriers than all the others who also have aircraft carriers in their navies combined!
So that runs like a red thread through the whole thing and all the other countries like Russia don't have something like that, so not these costs either.

 

I was referring to land border, but OK....

https://www.nato.int/nato-on-the-map/#lat=41.2938985129741&lon=38.99352068739921&zoom=2&layer-1

SNIP
Does Turkey share a border with Russia or Ukraine?
Turkey does not share a land border with either country. It does share a maritime border in the Black Sea with both Russia and Ukraine.
ENDSNIP

If you consider "maritime borders", I guess the US has a border with Russia...

 

That's a myth given that no one even knows how large the Chinese and Russian military budgets are. Not even the Russians and Chinese

 

You need not to guess here .... the US has a maritime border with Russia! Look on Alaska and who is next and not far away on the left of the map

 

Nations fight over those too you know. But I was indeed thinking of the old U.S.S.R. and not present day Russia.

 

So, conversely, is the gigantic US budget just a myth too and could in reality be twice as much or even more as twice?

 

Absolutely

 

I agree with your reasoning, but would add one thing: don't sleep on China's capabilities. They have been spending an enormous amount of their GDP on the military for years, and are extremely good at copying others' inventions. Just sayin......

 

Well, I had given this concept no previous thought, but you are correct... and by agreement, not just proximity

https://sovereignlimits.com/boundaries/russia-united-states-maritime#:~:text=The maritime boundary between Russia,occurred.

Of course, that agreement was between the US and the Soviet Union... No word on if Putin considers it valid today...

And from that same interesting website, here is the maritime agreement line between Turkey and Russia

https://sovereignlimits.com/boundaries/russia-turkey