I believe I am now fully Pro-Life.

That's in Ireland. This is America. Apples v Cherios.

Hence the reason that I said "There will ALWAYS be those that live in horrible circumstances." in the same post that you cut up to make this post.

A ZEF is a living breathing human. (they breath through the amniotic fluid). So the criteria is that it must be in front of you? Does the same apply to LINK: What is Modern Slavery? - United States Department of State or do you have compassion for those that are enslaved? I'd bet you'd have compassion for those that are enslaved. I know I do. So no, that's not your criteria. So...why don't you have compassion for the living breathing human inside the womb? What makes it "less" of a human to you to the point where it doesn't deserve the compassion you show for the human in front of you?

 

Tsk tsk tsk how sad. A law that prejudices against men! Welcome to a woman’s world Tell me - under this law would a man be charged with murder if a woman had a miscarriage?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59214544

So how many men have been charged with murder of a foetus again?

 

Really? Have you SEEN the maternal mortality statistics for America?



It is FAR more likely to happen in America

 

Oh yeah I feel terrible for this lady:

“Later, the medical examiner's report, obtained by the BBC, found traces of methamphetamine in her unborn son's liver and brain.”

She SHOULD be charged with murder. Again, that’s you having ZERO compassion for the baby. Just his crackhead meth addicted mother

 

You are not alone. The idea of having a more authoritarian government is beginning to grow on lot of Americans, especially on the RW side.

Deep down they are ashamed of it, so they blame someone else for their acceptance of it (like you do in your OP).

I have always been pro-life, but not for using the strong arm of the government to enforce the issue, because I know that will not stop, or reduce abortions. I support approaches which actually reduce abortions by preventing unplanned pregnancies in the first place.

 

You'd have to ask those who drafted the legislation as to why abortion was excluded

 

No I’m asking you. On what grounds can it be MURDER which is defined as the killing of another person without excuse.

Either it’s a life in which case it’s murder ANYTIME someone kills it. Or it’s NOT a life and it’s NOT murder anytime someone kills it.

But you CANNOT have it both ways. Either it’s a life or it’s not. Whether the mom wants it or not is COMPLETELY irrelevant to whether or not it’s a life and as such murder to end said life.

 

There is no need to give a definitive time line in regards to "human being" because the concept of "human being" as you are talking about is a spiritual one. Something that our secular government is not supposed to acknowledge. As such they are not to address the issue due to separation of church and state. The only thing that they should be addressing is whether or not a ZEF is a unique live human. I've already said this. Or do you not believe that our government should be secular? Do you believe that religious ideologies should be promoted by our government?

Btw:

Mayhap that is what you are looking for? Its not based on the concept of "human being" though. Its based on science. Nothing spiritual about it.

You might as well drop the religious argument with me. My argument has nothing to do with religion. The only one here so far that has made it about religion is you. And I reject your argument.

 

So again, you'd have to ask the legislators, who wrote the law, why they excluded abortion.

 

LINK: Maternal Mortality (cdc.gov)

Hmm....63 million abortions since RvW. That averages out to 1,285,714 abortions per year since RvW was ruled on in 1973. Vs 700 women dying per year. Sucks. But I think I'm comfortable with banning abortion if all you do is look at this.

 

Because Libs like Bowerbird would have a stroke if they included it.

It sure as hell wasn’t for consistency and equality lol

 

Good point. Hypocrisy runs through the entire political worldview of the Left.

The dangerous thing about that is, that left-wing ideology superficially appears as good, right and just. But that's a deception if you think about it more deeply.

Btw, Rightists are also very often wrong, but they don't lie that much. And when they lie, their lies are very stupid and will be exposed immediately.

 

Yes of course...that was why...

 

You don’t think backlash from the left was the cause? I’m highly confident you can’t come up with another reasonable justification not predicated on inequality.

 

BODY AUTONOMY

There is no such thing as body autonomy. That's an illusion. If we had body autonomy, the topsy-turvy world of euthanizing pets would work in the other direction. After all, animals can't speak in human languages and we don't want to watch them suffer in pain and it's legal to have them put to sleep. It's illegal to commit suicide but it's not illegal to be an alcoholic (a friend just lost her mother to cirrhosis last week, 46 years old), drug addict or overeater. It's illegal to self-harm.

However, a human *can* speak, make his/her own decisions and is considered "crazy" for not wanting to live in physical and/or mental pain and gets locked in a psychiatric hospital for saying so. We look down on people that seek mental health services (which can derail a career) but give a pass to people coping with their inner struggles by drinking, using illegal drugs, being promiscuous, beating the hell out of their spouses and/or kids, etc.. That's backwards. It takes courage to ask for help and actually do the work to get better.

There have been people that have been sentenced to prison for mistakenly shooting themselves.

Further, it takes 20 minutes for a doctor to get a judge to sign an order to force a medical procedure that a patient has denied. I know this for a fact because I was threatened with a court order because I did NOT want a hole punched in my stomach for a feeding tube. The surgeon didn't even hesitate. He went straight to "you can consent or I can get a judge to make you consent." I went through that hell for close to a year.

During a pre-surgery consultation, I checked the box not to receive any blood transfusions in the event of something happening during surgery. I was grilled by several doctors and nurses trying to bully me into changing that. They even said that I could call the Red Cross and ask questions. I refused. Of course, the Red Cross is going to say it's fine. I don't care what they say. I'm not doing it. They double-teamed and triple-teamed me for hours and threatened to cancel the much needed surgery. I didn't back down and he did the surgery without that consent. However, I know many, many people that will NOT advocate for themselves and just blindly accept whatever a doctor or nurse or the Red Cross says. None of those people get to live with the consequences if they are wrong.


"MOMENT" LIFE BEGINS

The argument about the moment life begins is not really relevant. Nobody on the Pro-Life side is defending that because they think all lives are precious. If they were, those same people wouldn't be jumping for joy every time a cop kills a black or brown person or somebody is executed on Death Row. "Life" isn't too big a concern and that's more than evident in all the ways people continue to be devalued and, like it or not, racism is very prevalent and actuarial tables will prove that black and brown people have shorter life spans and it's mainly because of racism and disparities in health care and access to health care.

Further, it's extremely short-sighted to equate the *ability* to have a baby with *having a baby*. Any healthy menstruating female can have an egg fertilized by sperm cells. That part is extremely easy. The part that's not so easy is what comes when that pregnancy reaches term and a completely dependent tiny human has to rely on one or both of the DNA contributors and they can't do it. There is no do-over. Parenting is hard even if one planned their pregnancy and the harder it gets, the risk of emotional and physical harm to that defenseless infant/child becomes higher

On top of that is the good old double-standard about unwed mothers on Public Aid. Those precious little lives need to eat, have clothing and get some kind of education for 12 years. That costs money and it's not likely an unemployed or underemployed person with very few job skills will earn enough to pay her (or his) bills and child care. It's less expensive to stay home until a baby is old enough for traditional schooling but there are afterschool activity costs or the parent has to work a job that somehow fits around the school schedule.

I have yet to meet any Pro-Lifer that has adopted, fostered and/or mentored a child. I have met several that have whisked a pregnant family member away for a secret abortion and come back being hypocritical. I have met many that snub their nose at mothers with a cart of groceries and Food Stamps with a bunch of kids around her. I have met some that sold their kids to the local pervert to get money to pay their bills. I have met many who are basically "breeders". Why the hell are we giving tv shows to people for having a bunch of kids? It's ridiculous and I think some of the older Duggar kids have been in trouble for pedophilia. That's a toxic testament to the values in our society.

If you follow the statistics you will see a direct conduit from generational poverty to run-ins with the law and eventually incarceration. The precious little lives need much more than being brought into the world and left to grow like weeds. And, this is not just a problem with unwanted pregnancies. It can happen due to unexpected events. One of my neighbors is 1 of 6. His mother passed away suddenly when he was about 4 or 5 years old. A month later, his father put all the kids in the car and dumped them on the steps of a church. The kids were separated and all of them suffered abuse in various group and foster homes and all of them are in prison except for my neighbor. He has all kinds of mental illnesses and smokes pot 24/7. He barely even eats. All he does is get high. He and his five siblings were "precious little bundles of joy" when they were brought in the world. That changed the moment their mother wasn't there and their father couldn't manage. They instantly became unwanted burdens left to the state to provide for. If you've been paying attention, the government isn't really good with family matters.

So, if we are going to argue that we care "about life" shouldn't those lives matter when the umbilical cord gets snipped?

If not, why not?

If so, why are we complicit in a system that isn't really doing much to help make sure those lives grow up to be position, self-respecting, society-respecting functioning adults?

Why are we putting petty criminals in prison with hardened criminals with the expectation they won't have anything but time to learn how to become better criminals?

Why do we deny ex-felons any access to rebuild their lives once they leave prison (essentially forcing them back to a life of crime)?

Why are we graduating kids that can't read, write or count?

POV

OK. You changed your position and you have that right but it's disingenuous to blame it on Leftists. I'm sure you're including me (although I'm not a Leftist) given your scathing other post in response to one of mine. If you wanted to hold your position, nothing anybody could say would move you. So, you are making this choice and stop playing the "us v. them" game of blaming somebody else. You say you were Pro-Choice and now you're Pro-Life. I haven't read enough of you other posts to immediately recall that but it's nobody's decision or choice but yours. Own it.

 

I got a quick test for you.

Go ask your neighbor if he would have preferred to have been aborted or allowed to live.

Come back and tell us what he says.

 

Please provide proof the law is such due to backlash from the Left. I'll wait

 

If I had proof I wouldn’t be asking you what you thought the reason was, would I?

 

Why do you need proof? He just admitted the SC ruling was a political move, not a constitutional one.

 

Anytime you can point me to the right to abortion in the constitution I’d love to look it up.

 

So your theory is opinion only. Thanks

 

No he didn't. We're talking about a codified law, not the SC ruling

 

I'm pro-choice when it comes to rape, incest, birth defects, danger to the mother, emergent scarious like that. One day the gay gene will be isolated and parents will be able to abort gay babies.

But, using abortion as birth control? Aborting up to birth, just because a woman changed her mind about having a kid? That needs to be illegal.

 

Look up Roe vs Wade. Why listen to me when you can listen to the Supreme Court of The US.

My point was to say you admitted the ruling was a political one.

 

It is illegal to abort up to birth, just because a woman changed her mind about having a kid.