FBI recovered 11 sets of classified documents in Trump search: report

Trump didn't have to sign an executive order. He was elected to the office.

 

That's because there was no request from an agency under his authority to declassify a document. The declassification "order" was instigated by the single person that answers only to himself. Let me repeat that. No agency under his authority made the request.

 

And that order would've been GIVEN to persons bound by the EO to REPORT declassification events.
They LITERALLY have to mark through the classified markings on the documents.
If he gave an order superseding the standing EO, THEY WOULD HAVE MEMORIALIZED IT IN WRITING AND PRESENTED IT TO HIM FOR SIGNATURE.
Because without PROOF of the order, they're all committing multiple felonies and the one thing a bureaucrat can be relied upon to do is cover their own ass.

 

Once more for good measure. The POTUS doesn't answer to anyone in his administration. Those in his administration answer to him and have to follow a declassification "process" to show compliance with EOs that the POTUS writes to guide HIS agencies reporting to HIM.

 

Once more for good measure: he is not the one loading and carrying the **** out the door.
People subject to the law are.
So when he gives them the "sim sim saba bim its all magically declassified now" order, those people would be obliged to follow the law and declassify those documents.
And yet NONE of them recall such an order, and there is no record of such an order.

Which means there is no evidence such an order was given. Likely because it was not in fact given.

 

Do you know the difference between a law and an EO? You don't seem to.

 

So are you saying Trump's people didn't follow the process and that deserves a RAID for the 1st time in 230-year history of our country, on a former President? If that's the case, I believe this President and AG will eventually be impeached, you do not do this on a political adversary unless it's very serious, which that most certainly doesn't fit the bill anywhere but Mexico, China and Russia.

 

I'm saying by Occam's razor it is more likely that Trump is lying about having given such an order, rather than the idea that dozens of people didn't make any record of such an order though they are legally required to make such a record if such an order is given.

Impeachment occurs by act of congress. Count heads and named affiliations for me real quick.

 

So long to approve it?
You know at least 3 people had to approve it. Garland, Wray(FBI) and then a Judge(magistrate) and I am sure maybe some more.
It takes time and convincing to do something as bold and historic as raiding a former presidents private home.
It actually happened rather quickly. A little over a month?

 

Does it matter if a document is classified or not?
There are some documents that can be unclassified that are not the property of a president/former president, but still the property of the USA gov't. In particluar, the NA. Is that true?

 

So you are claiming trump wrote an EO to declassify documents.
Can you provide the EO you say exists?

It would help the conversation if everyone gets to read it.

 

In a very real sense yes. Whoever wants to be President has to pass a demanding test imposed by 200 million or so very picky instructors. The test is pass or fail and the person who passes only gets to keep their license for four years at a time before they have to pass a retest. Thing is if they do pass there are limits imposed on when, where and how exactly the President is allowed to 'drive'. He or she breaks those rules at their peril.

See its easy to understand!

See that's your problem in a nut shell. The cases referenced were cold hard indisputable fact. But you can't process any fact that contradicts your world view so what do you do? Ignore them and pretend they don't exist.

Sadly for you the facts are that the Trump Administration argued in open court on multiple occasions that a statement by the President announcing that certain documents are or would be declassified is not in and of itself enough to make them declassified and does not mean they automatically are. Either that or it was implied in court that there were processes that needed to be followed. These are the guts of arguments used by Trump's administration to defend some FOIA requests. And the court agreed with them. Which is, as I said a matter of public record. You cant dodge of ignore these facts.

Result? It means that the issue of declassification is more complex than your suggesting. It doesn't automatically mean that Trump is guilty of a crime BTW. What it does mean however, despite what you keep insisting is that Trump can't apparently just shout the word 'Declassify' and make it done deal. At the least it implies there are processes/procedures that need to be followed or at least some other context that needs to be present before a President declassifies something.

So like it or not the question of whether certain documents found in Trump's possession were declassified appropriately needs to be worked through. It may still be the case that there's no charge to answer. But then again there could be. We all just have to wait to find out.

 

It depends on the charges. Two of them do not matter if the documents are classified or declassified. Espionage Act charges may matter if intent can be proven on why he kept classified documents in his residence.

The National Archives keeps all government documents from the rank and file to all Presidents who held office and anywhere and everywhere in between. Most are digitized, especially with the rank and file side and are in the process of digitizing the Presidents from Jimmy Carter to Trump. I think 5 presidents are now totally digitized.

 

It doesn't matter. An unclassified document is still property of the US government. I'm confused as to why his followers think anything declassified material immediately becomes property of the former president when they leave office.

 

For Trump to say what he did is legal, he would have had to sign an executive order, period. Otherwise those Executive Orders from Reagan and the modified one from Obama are still law and act as law. They are just the details that law or the US code does not specify.

Let me give you an example. YOu have the code, lets say 26 USC 162, ordinary business expenses. Then you have regulations that specificy what those ordinary business expenses are, such as reasonable compensation. Then you have Revenue Rulings and Revenue Procedures on who to apply the 26 USC 162 and its subsequent regulations. You may even have court cases from US Tax Court up to the Supreme Court that may apply. Executive Orders fall somewhere between Court Cases and Revenue Procedures, but they are applicable law. Violate the proceedures in place, and you will eventually violate the law.

 

Because quite frankly, they don't understand the law at all. They are just regurgitating what they hear on TV like Hannity or Laura or Tucker, or what they hear on AM Conservative Talk Radio. That's it.

 

Also they like to regurgitate talking points this is political persecution. I guess they forgot Trump phone call with Ukraine telling them to investigate the Biden's or Gulianni's phone call to publicly announce the investigation to get on better terms with Trump.

 

Yeah, they are just grasping at straws here trying every little trick they can think of.

 

Probably for the same reason they would not care if he shot someone in the middle of 5th Ave.

 

It was addressed from National Archivist Debra Wall to Trump's attorney, Evan Corcoran, and discussed 15 boxes of materials Trump's handed over in January, which it says contained 700 pages of classified material.

"In its initial review of materials within those boxes, NARA identified items marked as classified national security information, up to the level of Top Secret and including Sensitive Compartmented Information and Special Access Program materials," Wall wrote.

These are three of the highest levels of classification. It prompted an internal assessment of "of the potential damage resulting from the apparent manner in which these materials were stored and transported," Wall said.

Trump has consistently downplayed the danger of him keeping such documents at Mar-a-Lago, while US officials have said that is was a key rationale for getting them back.
https://news.yahoo.com/trump-ally-produced-unpublished-letter-150601344.html

...
This letter sort of proves trump had documents that were illegal for him to have.

 

So it's nothing like having a driver's license.

yeah your analogy is ****.

Whatever irrelevant claims were made don't matter.

It's not about world views it's about reality. You Reuther accept it or you don't

So?

This isn't under the judicial branch. Courts have no say. The executive is in charge of the executive branch.

No, courts have nothing to do with it.

Lol it's only under the presidents authority that anything is classified to pretend he doesn't have unilateral authority to declare anything declassified he wishes is to pretend the Earth is flat.

You just don't understand how it works.

All he has to do is say he declassified them as president.

Nothing you've posted, try as you might, has proven the president doesn't have Unilateral authority over the entire executive branch and that includes classified documents.

Nice try though.

 

Why?

A previous executive doesn't control a current one.

That only applies if you are subject to whatever procedures are in place the executive isn't he has unilateral authority. You'll see soon enough if this silly little hoax doesn't peter out.

 

Impeached? Ok, was he convicted or removed from office? No, of coarse he wasn't. They would need actual evidence for that to happen.

And when this latest waste of taxpayers money goes absolutely nowhere, what will you say then?

How many investigations, impeachments, witch hunts that go NOWHERE do we need for you folks to see that...

There really is nothing to see here.

Your current crop of worthless politicians are terrified of of President Trump, and you'd think all this garbage that goes NOWHERE would be extremely telling.

But alas, just keep voting for all your worthless lifelong politicians who have made your life so much better since President Trump.

 

OK, one point at a time.

1) No, your ability to comprehend an analogy is ****.

2) They are/were sworn testimony and evidence provided under oath to a US Court on behalf of President of the United States at his instruction. How is 'irrelevant'. Explain. Unless of course you think the US President has card blanche to lie (commit perjury) when presenting evidence to the US justice System. Is that what you think?

3) 'The courts have no say?' Really! There's this little document called the Constitution of the United States. You may think its irrelevant to the present discussion but (sorry to tell you) most citizens would disagree. See point 2 above about committing perjury.

4) The US Government representatives presented sworn testimony in court that just because the President may have said something was declassified doesn't mean it automatically is declassified. That being true (and it is) please explain again how I'm the one who doesn't understand.

5) Prove it. Quote the Legislation, Policy or Procedural document that states that all a US President has to do is state that something is declassified and it automatically becomes so. Go on, it should be easy since your so adamant that is the case. Where's the evidence?

6) You obviously can't (or won't) process what I'm saying. At no point have I claimed that the US President doesn't have authority over the Executive Branch of the United States Government. You think otherwise? Show where. Beyond that having 'authority' over classified documents doesn't automatically mean the person concerned can do with them what they will. For the last time, the issue isn't whether or not the President has authority to declassify documents, he obviously does. The issue is whether just verbally stating something is declassified is enough to make it so. (And Trump already had staff present evidence in court that this isn't the case - which is why one of the reasons the matter is complicated.) If it was as simple as you claim the FBI wouldn't even have grounds to investigate the matter and no court in the country would have signed the infamous search warrant. There are complex legal and evidential issues at play and the matter is NOT simple, whether you like it or not. Hence the need to wait and see.

7) Thank you!

 

1. No your analogy is ****

2. So?

3. Yeah really. The courts are the judicial branch we're talking about the executive branch completely separate branches.

4. The president authority to declassified anything he wants.

5. Well he's is the Commander in Chief.

6. Sorry I don't process horse ****